The fall of Atlanis.

[Darkstar]

Amend to above post, for 11,000 yrs, it should read 1000 yrs

[Darkstar]

This whole debate has prompted me to re-read "Worlds in Collision" and "Ages in Chaos" by Velikovsky.
Both very interesting and thought-provoking.

I have read worlds in collision, some quite interesting material in that book that makes you go hmmm...

[LivinginLuxor]

The myth of Atlantis could just be a morality tale - don't get too uppity because disaster lies that way - like the myth of Icarus and Daedelus. The origins of the people of the Nile Valley is quite well known, with skeletons from over 30000 years ago having been discovered. Massive climate change between 50,000 and 12,000 years ago seems to have been responsible for the present settlements along the Nile. No need for a mythical race!

"Like its modern counterpart, ancient Egypt was centered on the Nile Valley in the eastern Sahara, Africa's largest desert. The climate history of this part of the continent, which has varied over time, has likely played a major role in how humans have moved and interacted through the millennia. This region was likely a major route for the exodus of modern humans from Africa.

Between 50,000 and 15,000 years ago the desert area west of the Nile was inhabited sparsely, if at all, due to the region's aridity. During this period a succession of cultures flourished on the banks of the Nile. As rains came in from equatorial Africa in the early Holocene, the desert became less arid, and people moved into the Sahara from all directions. Between 10,000 and 6,000 B.C. archaeological evidence has been interpreted to suggest that the number of people living along the Nile fell. At the same time, in the desert west of the river there is evidence of an increase in population and of pastoral societies that built large stone megaliths and sculptures, developed astronomical knowledge, made the earliest known pottery in Africa, and, likely, domesticated cattle. There are rock paintings of people and animals, sometimes using themes that also appear later in Egypt, along with other aspects of the culture. After the climate again grew more arid after 6000 B.C. there is evidence for migration back into the Nile Valley."

Full article at http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/geope ... %20Biology

I've read Velikovsky too, many years ago. The only SLIGHTLY credible work is his Ages in Chaos, where he tries to prove that the accepted timeline for Egyptian history is about 600 years out of kilter, with historical figures appearing twice! But it also ties in with recent works by David Rohl and others in some ways.

[Bullet Magnet]

The myth of Atlantis could just be a morality tale - don't get too uppity because disaster lies that way - like the myth of Icarus and Daedelus. The origins of the people of the Nile Valley is quite well known, with skeletons from over 30000 years ago having been discovered. Massive climate change between 50,000 and 12,000 years ago seems to have been responsible for the present settlements along the Nile. No need for a mythical race!

"Like its modern counterpart, ancient Egypt was centered on the Nile Valley in the eastern Sahara, Africa's largest desert. The climate history of this part of the continent, which has varied over time, has likely played a major role in how humans have moved and interacted through the millennia. This region was likely a major route for the exodus of modern humans from Africa.

Between 50,000 and 15,000 years ago the desert area west of the Nile was inhabited sparsely, if at all, due to the region's aridity. During this period a succession of cultures flourished on the banks of the Nile. As rains came in from equatorial Africa in the early Holocene, the desert became less arid, and people moved into the Sahara from all directions. Between 10,000 and 6,000 B.C. archaeological evidence has been interpreted to suggest that the number of people living along the Nile fell. At the same time, in the desert west of the river there is evidence of an increase in population and of pastoral societies that built large stone megaliths and sculptures, developed astronomical knowledge, made the earliest known pottery in Africa, and, likely, domesticated cattle. There are rock paintings of people and animals, sometimes using themes that also appear later in Egypt, along with other aspects of the culture. After the climate again grew more arid after 6000 B.C. there is evidence for migration back into the Nile Valley."

Full article at http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/geope ... %20Biology

I've read Velikovsky too, many years ago. The only SLIGHTLY credible work is his Ages in Chaos, where he tries to prove that the accepted timeline for Egyptian history is about 600 years out of kilter, with historical figures appearing twice! But it also ties in with recent works by David Rohl and others in some ways.

I will try and address all that Stan.

Chaos.. We are well and truly in that state, the illusion of order is just that, an illusion.

[Darkstar]

The myth of Atlantis could just be a morality tale - don't get too uppity because disaster lies that way - like the myth of Icarus and Daedelus. The origins of the people of the Nile Valley is quite well known, with skeletons from over 30000 years ago having been discovered. Massive climate change between 50,000 and 12,000 years ago seems to have been responsible for the present settlements along the Nile. No need for a mythical race!

"Like its modern counterpart, ancient Egypt was centered on the Nile Valley in the eastern Sahara, Africa's largest desert. The climate history of this part of the continent, which has varied over time, has likely played a major role in how humans have moved and interacted through the millennia. This region was likely a major route for the exodus of modern humans from Africa.

Between 50,000 and 15,000 years ago the desert area west of the Nile was inhabited sparsely, if at all, due to the region's aridity. During this period a succession of cultures flourished on the banks of the Nile. As rains came in from equatorial Africa in the early Holocene, the desert became less arid, and people moved into the Sahara from all directions. Between 10,000 and 6,000 B.C. archaeological evidence has been interpreted to suggest that the number of people living along the Nile fell. At the same time, in the desert west of the river there is evidence of an increase in population and of pastoral societies that built large stone megaliths and sculptures, developed astronomical knowledge, made the earliest known pottery in Africa, and, likely, domesticated cattle. There are rock paintings of people and animals, sometimes using themes that also appear later in Egypt, along with other aspects of the culture. After the climate again grew more arid after 6000 B.C. there is evidence for migration back into the Nile Valley."

Full article at http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/geope ... %20Biology

I've read Velikovsky too, many years ago. The only SLIGHTLY credible work is his Ages in Chaos, where he tries to prove that the accepted timeline for Egyptian history is about 600 years out of kilter, with historical figures appearing twice! But it also ties in with recent works by David Rohl and others in some ways.

That is as maybe, but historians and anthropologists cannot answer this question, how did stone age nile valley inhabitants manage to carve hollow thin necked vases out of dolorite and obsidian? We cannot do it with the technology we have now, obviously someone taught them. Or maybe someone can come up with a better explaination?

[Bullet Magnet]

Sorry to leave you chatting amongst yourself's, I have been pretty busy, and during my thinking process, have probably blown a major hole in my own "Millions of Years Since Atlantis fell" theory.. I can admit a failure in my thinking..Not often that happens..
Anyhow, I need more time to ponder it, and represent some elements..

I will explain what I think Florence Nightingale saw, with her "symbolist" eyes, and mixed with her high intelligence and her medical knowledge, that knowledge of her era...

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29811&start=40
This will help explain the detail in Aromagician's topic on Ascension and Ressurection. Hence the link..

I will explain the difference between King and Pharaoh, and why I can see why Akhenaten was the First Pharaoh of Egypt, and the True Pharaoh line.. What happened to these poor sod's...

A hidden Technology, so advanced, it's simple !


I will start with something I thought of out of the blue.


Change the word Knowledge ( and add a little distortion ) to "Religion".Start looking for yourselves now at Ancient Egypt..

I will return with the details when I get the time to present it properly..Maybe a day or two..
( ie, Bad forward planning on my part before starting this topic. )

[Aromagician]

Just watched this fascinating video on MAGICAL EGYPT, have watched episode 1 and 2 which both seem to have bits and pieces about the theory of an ancient civilisation in egypt, and evidence of it being covered in water..

What do you think?
[youtube][/youtube]

[LivinginLuxor]

Not a good series of programs, I think, having watched them all. The erosion could have been caused by running water, but it could also have been caused by the action of damp sand as the water table rose and fell during the annual inundations. The only factor that makes me doubt the conventional theories is that the head is totally out of proportion to the body which makes me think it was recarved by Kephren when he was building his pyramid into his image from whatever was there before - maybe a falcon representing Re-Harakhte?

[Aromagician]

Or a lions head representing Leo.

What about the evidence of the Osirieon as well? They beleived the reason it was so low, was not because it had been dug into the ground, but because it was so old, that the ground had become higher over the ages.
Also the newer building was built in a Lshape, perhaps because it had started building then had to move to avoid the Osirion.

Also the older pyramid, that had blocks that had been weathered at the base, pointing to it having ben built over the older structure?

Or how the granite arches in the other building ( was it the courtyard of the sphinx?? Cant remember sorry) were obviously of a newer construction time than the parts it adjoined to.

I have only watched 3 of them so far, found the third a bit longwinded. But was interested on the piece about the granite urns. How did an ancient civilisation, who at that stage only had fish hooks and crude tools have such an item? When we cannot even make such an item today with our advanced machinery?? How did they do it?

( that may have been in the third episode.)

[Aromagician]

I must say, it was interesting seeing the sphinx from those angles. I had seen it in person, but did not realise the odd size of the head, which would makes sense that it was smaller, if it had been carved out of an existing head the proportions would have to have been made smaller.

[Aromagician]

I suppose his theory is that Egypt was the land called Atlantis...

[Bullet Magnet]

The Sphinx is literally millions of years old, and has nothing to do with the Pyramids, infact, it was in the way of the Pyramids, hence the bend in the channel leading down to the Nile from the Great Pyramid..

I used to think that it was created during the Age of Leo, it would indeed make perfect sense, but then I had to look at the bigger picture regarding the Sphinx, its name, its pose, it's location and symbolic representation..

I have had to leave this forum for a while, sort of collect my thoughts, and deal with many things that have been going on, so I am glad to finally be allowed back onto the forum, and pick up again on this topic and that of Aromagicians' (her topic is going to have to have a greater in depth explanation), although what I have to say about Atlantis is more than relevant there.

The greatest hurdle I have had to overcome is how to present what I have to say. In doing so, it means that I have to relate to my own life experiences, some of which will indeed stretch the limits of credulity to the maximum for many on here, hence the reluctance, not because I fear ridicule, I can put up with that quite easily, it's water off a duck's back to me.
I do of course respect that there are many "professionals" on this forum, and I will have to challenge their lifetimes work in such a manner that will not insult them and have them venomously defending their "beliefs" about Ancient Egypt..
Entering into these arguments, will just leave a bad taste in the mouth, and distract from what I have to say on the subject.

The only reason that I am going to share some of my Life experiences in this topic, is because, I see the other way because of what has happened, and if there was any doubt in my mind about these experiences, then I would keep my mouth shut, or in this case, my fingers off the keyboard !

So, I will present this as a "theory", or at least something to make people look at the alternative explanation I can see.
And maybe with the knowledge that exists on this forum, people may be kind enough to fill in the gaps with an alternative view of their knowledge, or see how the "established" knowledge fits in with this theory.
I do not have all the answers; I just have an outline of what could have happened, and why we have the legacy that we have inherited. Because, what is happening today is relevant to what happened maybe 13,000 years ago, and continued up until some point where Moses had to leave Egypt with his people, and also what he took out of Egypt.

Proof is one of the hardest things that I have to offer.
For example. I know that there are adobe pyramids cased in limestone that exist on the West bank. These are newer Pyramids than that of the Giza plateau. These pyramids still pump water today, without any moving parts. How on earth am I going to prove that?
since they mostly exist either on Military bases conveniently set up on these sites, or they are heavily guarded and no one is allowed anywhere near them.
Some have been drained and no longer function, but could be made to function quite easily..

Many hurdles to overcome on this particular topic. So, I will make a start on this tonight, just small sections at a time.

It will start with the Fall of Atlantis.. It did not fall, per-say, just that sometimes, things happen and we have to accept that change is the only constant in the universe. Back then, the Atlantians were faced with a massive upheaval and little time with which to react.

[Bullet Magnet]

So let us go over some old ground to start off with..

I stated that the Ancient Egyptians appear to have literally come from nowhere, or the other argument is that the natives woke up one morning really smart and said "let's create a religion, build stuff really big and tell everyone about ourselves in the pictures and text's we create" !

I tend to go with the "came from nowhere" theory. Why ? Well, there is no evidence of the Ancient Egyptian civilisation emerging in Egypt, nor anywhere else in the world, and these people quite clearly knew what they were doing when they came to Egypt.
For the benefit of the skeptics, we will discount an "Alien" civilisation landing here in a huge UFO and settling down on earth in Egypt.
although, at some point, we will have to accept a much higher power than humans as we know them being involved in all of this, or at least accept that these people had incredible knowledge or machinery that we have yet to discover..
Hence the need to deceive us all about the Ancient Egyptians, but I dont want to come across as all paranoid and start on the major conspiracy theories.. not yet at least..

From what has been written about Atlantis, I doubt Plato was correct about them being vain and right up their own backsides.
That is a religious statement often used to humble and control the masses, and is a common theme in most religions.
And since a "priest" gave Plato the information, I think it is safe to say that Plato did not receive truthful information.
But why give him ANYTHING on Atlantis ? Why not say "Atlantis never existed Plato, and you cannot prove it did anyway" ! ?
So maybe there was some form of evidence around then that Atlantis did exist at some time before Plato's time, so they had to give him something ?

Now, the Blue Lotus flower according to many of the Atlantis "myths" was the National Flower or Emblem of the Atlantians. This has been mentioned in some of the stories that came out of Atlantis. The Blue Lotus is not so prevelant in the Nile, so it could well have been imported from Atlantis when they came to Egypt.
The Lotus flower worship is probably second to none in Ancient Egypt, the tops of the columns, and in the Artwork, especially the Armania days during the transition back to the old ways after the Akhenaton dynasty.
We know the flower posesses many qualities, it is a powerful Aphrodisiac and also an hallucigen, like salycibyn or Fly Argaric and LSD.

These kind of drugs get bad press these days, but if anyone does proper research on these drugs, they do have some amazing effects upon the human mind.. I wont go into that just yet, but there are many people who know the real reason why these kind of drugs are banned, and it is not because they are bad for you !!! Governments really do not care for their people that much, I can assure you of that. The ban is there for Authority to protect itself.

So, were the Ancient Egyptians a bunch of smack heads that declined because their minds were addled with drugs ? Could they have built such wondeful creations that would last thousands of years in such a mental state ? Consider that.
So, if as the Egyptians tell us about the Blue Lotus, it is well worth worshiping, access to sacred knowledge and a higher power.
You would want to make something that powerful an object of worship I imagine..

Now we have to consider HOW the Atlantians made it ashore to Egypt from Atlantis ?
IF they had the capabilities to get to Egypt, then they had to know it was there and have a craft or vessel of some kind to get them there.

So now, almost 16,000 years ago, the Ataltians set up home in Egypt, bringing thier culture and way of life to these lands and to the indiginous people ?
Why come to the Sahara and cling to the Nile ?
I think back then, the climate was better, and the desert was a lot smaller than it is today. As depicted in many pictograms, hunting Lions and other animals. consider the chariot in the pictograms, a chariot is pretty useless in the sand, but good for hunting on open savanahs.
The only reason I can see for the 6000 year timescale for the Egyptian Empire, is for the benefit of religion, especially the Old testamant to fit in with it's terrible creation theory.
Why not subtract another 10,000 years to fit the Atlantians into the picture, because it's more than feasible for that time to be correct, knowing what we do now about other civilisations, and their capabilities many thousands of years ago, long before the Old Testament "God" had even created the earth !!!


Did the Sphynx greet the people of Atlantis as they started to discover the Nile ?
They would have know that an intelligent people have been here in the past when seeing that.
Who could they have been ? or who were they still...

We know that Sumaria existed and that there were highly intelligent people living there.
They could well be legends, coming from another planet, creating people, then leaving them in the "garden of Eden".
The creation story matches that of the Egyptian's, though the symbolism is different, the numbers are the same.
there's reference to Chromosones and DNA, in depth knowledge of the human form in both cultures.
Both cultures had knowledge of the stars, one of the stars WE did not discover until 1947.
The people of Sumaria, Neter, Anakeim, Nefilim, Nlohim (nephelyn)..(sp) are even refered to in the Bible, so why does the Bible even mention the nephelym ? It had to be true for the people of the day to accept the old testament. The people of the day must have known about the "Giants of Old" as they are referred to in the Bible.
Did these 2 cultures meet ?
Sitchin gave NASA information about the stars in our Galaxy. He gained that knowledge from the Sumarian texts. he died in 1961. Today, they are finding out that his information is accurate..

Quite a lot to consider...

The next part will be the settling down in Egypt, the transformation from Atlantian to Egyptian..

[LivinginLuxor]

Sorry Bullet, but it would be nice to explore the facts instead of making unsubstantiated statements. Tell me where any of those pumpamyds are, and I'll try to find them! As I mentioned in my last post, it is now clear how civilisation began in the Nile Valley - it didn't spring up from nothing but had a long evolution.

If you use the principle of Occam's Razor, surely you will see that the explanation given about Atlantis and the Atlantean master race, is so convoluted as to be untrue?

[Bullet Magnet]

I disagree with the Long Evolution, infact, it is the reverse, they got worse as they evolved, and that is what I will try to explain as they settle into Egypt and Why it happened in the next part.

What I think has happened regarding the Atlantians is that they were erased out of History by the people who were helping them, so to speak, then came the more Ancient Greeks who also played a hand in the decption, then the Holy Roman empire ( Catholic Church ) played it's part and finally, the Victorian society that gave us "modern Egyptology".

Then we take a trip around the World, pointing to all the other Civilisations who were in many ways similar to the Egyptians who were wiped out by the good old Catholic church, who are a Political organisation, posing as a religion.

The step type Pyramids are the ones of interest, dotted down the Nile. I have a reference regarding a large sum of money being paid to see one of these Pyramids in Action. The same thing goes on in the UK. Sacred sites swallowed up by usually RAF bases, and of course, the Church. Sacred is not quite the right word. There's the obvious reason why we do not have access to the technology of the Ancienets, and we need look no further than religious control, then the vested interests of the money men and big business, commonly know as a "democracy" in the Western World..

[Shareen]

So why not bring into the discussion the geographic alignments of many ancient "sacred" sites, particularly in Africa. The Nilotic meridian at approx 31degs..... could that have been the original Greenwich? Did Atlantis lie on that meridian? Santorini is a bit away, not close enough anyway. Maybe somewhere of the southern coast of Turkey? Is Cyprus close enough?
Maybe it was even south of Egypt........ Great Zimbabwe sits on the same Nilotic meridian.
And what about the Sphinx? Ancient evidence of a lion culture? Living alongside these amazing cats, instead of in fear of them? Didn't Ramses 2 have a pet lion? There are many examples of lions being "guardians", "friends", "saviours".

Lol, just to add a few more thoughts into this discussion

[Shareen]

There's the obvious reason why we do not have access to the technology of the Ancienets, and we need look no further than religious control, then the vested interests of the money men and big business, commonly know as a "democracy" in the Western World..

100% agree with this too!

[A-Four]

Funny you should mention Great Zimbabwe, Shareen, many of the old gods at Oxbridge regard that as 'the craddle'.

See Bullet, I'm still reading.

[Bullet Magnet]

So why not bring into the discussion the geographic alignments of many ancient "sacred" sites, particularly in Africa. The Nilotic meridian at approx 31degs..... could that have been the original Greenwich? Did Atlantis lie on that meridian? Santorini is a bit away, not close enough anyway. Maybe somewhere of the southern coast of Turkey? Is Cyprus close enough?
Maybe it was even south of Egypt........ Great Zimbabwe sits on the same Nilotic meridian.
And what about the Sphinx? Ancient evidence of a lion culture? Living alongside these amazing cats, instead of in fear of them? Didn't Ramses 2 have a pet lion? There are many examples of lions being "guardians", "friends", "saviours".

Lol, just to add a few more thoughts into this discussion

The whole problem for me Shareen, is that I do have the answer from a "Spiritual" point of view, but I am trying my best to avoid going down that route.
I am sure if such a being as a "Spiritual Egyptologist" was allowed to exist in society and society was mor espiritually aware, the answer is fairly plain to see. BUT we are dealing with Eyptologists who claim this is a science.

I would love to just spurt out about what happened on Atlantis and its links to Sumaria,
and why Akhenaton and his sister Nefertiti were put here and who they really were.
I will touch upon that subject, since he was the first Pharaoah and not a King.
I will revael something abou them, something obvious that has been missed, regarding the art and depictions of them and thier family.
Then there's the whole Christ consiousness grid that was set up by Akhenaton, and the 300 who came out of the teachings of the Armania kingdom, ultimatley leading to Mary and her well known Son "Jesus".
Beyond that, the connections with my homeland of North Wales, and many other places in the World to some degree or another.

Presentation is the key to this, and I doubt I will win anyone over on this matter, but maybe it will make some people think a little more and hopefully see things slightly differently when I get to the end of this. That's the best I can hope for really..

Funny you should mention Great Zimbabwe, Shareen, many of the old gods at Oxbridge regard that as 'the craddle'

Thank you for staying with me so far A-Four,


Of course, many tribes down there including the Dogon and Zulu's know more about astronomy than NASA. Their creation stories match that of many other civilisations in other parts of the world.
It seem's we in the West have the most absurd one ever created, including the evolution from a crazy stoneage dawn of makind.

Quote: Terence Mckenna on modern Science. We now know that we know absolutely nothing..

[A-Four]

I note your line here Bullet with regards to term Pharaoh, and most people mix this name up with king, it ofcourse means something totally different, the Greek term means 'great house', however it mean't more than this, a little simular perhaps as to how Charles I of England saw himself. Even to this day, when Elizabeth II was crowned Queen, she took part in a very secret ceremony in Westminster Abbey, that would not have been out of step with the ancient pharaohs.

I think you may find it was Tuthmosis III who first used this tite, and that is why in the past on here, I have made it quite clear, what l believe the so called Mortuary Temple of Hatchepsuit was really all about, though no one picked up on it at that time.

I'm off for a drink now .