Luxor4u

Went to a very interesting lecture yesterday at the Museum, after a somewhat shaky start it was informative and as usual on these occasions I learnt something new.
How I do wish though that people would not wander around during the lectures, if your bored or uninterested then please leave don't go clacking up and down the lecture hall stairs in your high heels. At least there were no mobile phones ringing.
This was followed by a look round the museum itself some new exhibits since last I visited. Always a delight to go there.

Those ladies kept coming forward to take photo's...and then going back again despite there being a number of empty seats down that side. Eventually one did sit down in front of us and then kept lifting her phone up to take more photo's!
The usual technical issues with an old laptop but a bit of advice got them sorted with a newer laptop!

Was the museum access free for lecture attendee's as suggested?

Yes BBLux, Carrie and I were ushered in as honoured guests!! However later on Carrie was asked for her ticket, and when she said she had been to the lecture the man asked for money! I'll refrain from relating Carries response!!

It's good to read some feedback about an event I've posted information of. I do sometimes wonder if I waste my time passing the information on so it's good to see that on this occasion at least, I wasn't.

I'm sure people who can't attend these lectures, events etc. or wondering if tney ate worth attending, would appreciate more feedback though. A bit more detailed information of what it was all about.

An announcement about this problem before the talk seems appropriate.

HEPZIBAH wrote:It's good to read some feedback about an event I've posted information of. I do sometimes wonder if I waste my time passing the information on so it's good to see that on this occasion at least, I wasn't.

I'm sure people who can't attend these lectures, events etc. or wondering if tney ate worth attending, would appreciate more feedback though. A bit more detailed information of what it was all about.

This is the first time I've been able to attend a lecture for some years, and I enjoyed it. I havent visited Luxor for 3 years, and there were no lectures on during my previous 2 trips. Disappointing, as I really enjoyed the lectures at the Mummification Museum during earlier visits.

HEPZIBAH wrote:It's good to read some feedback about an event I've posted information of. I do sometimes wonder if I waste my time passing the information on so it's good to see that on this occasion at least, I wasn't.

Well, being that it is in this section, I thought maybe one of those who was present at the said lecture might give us a little insight to what they may have learnt, if anything.

I myself, wonder if there maybe a new modern day idea as to why these objects were buried ?

P.S. - By the way, I am grateful for your initial post on Monday on this subject Hepzibah.

Being that the subject in question here is about the Luxor Temple Cashette, I would have thought some one might have passed on new and enlightening information.

There was no new information, but a detailed explanation of where, how and when it was found, with photos illustrating the whole process.

It was discovered just by chance when work was being done on the paving in the Amunhotep III court; the work was stopped immediately and a proper excavation carried out. Really interesting photos of the artefacts as they came out of the ground, and then after cleaning and restoration. It was clear that several of the original team were known to members of the audience - if I understood correctly, the lecturer was the son of the lead archaeologist.

As with other buried caches of statues, I've always understood that the priests did so with artifacts surplus to requirements. To destroy them would have been sacrilege.

The Luxor temple cache was buried around the time of Roman occupation so perhaps the priests were trying to avoid desecration by the new masters of Luxor.

They certainly form an impressive display in the lower gallery of the Luxor museum.

According to Nicholas Reeves, they were "buried at the time of the Roman conversion of the area into a military camp during the late 3rd century AD".

Presumably there was evidence for this dating found at the scene.

I'm not so sure the priests would have been worried about the Romans deliberately desecrating their religious statues. The Romans were fairly respectful of other countries' religions at the time.

FarleyFlavors wrote:According to Nicholas Reeves, they were "buried at the time of the Roman conversion of the area into a military camp during the late 3rd century AD".

Presumably there was evidence for this dating found at the scene.

I'm not so sure the priests would have been worried about the Romans deliberately desecrating their religious statues. The Romans were fairly respectful of other countries' religions at the time.

They showed little respect for the vestibule immediately after Amenhotep's sun court, covering the wall reliefs in classical Roman images

I don't think the statues were surplus to requirements just that the Romans didn't want them there so they were thrown into a pit. Fortunately as it turns out because they are the in an incredible state of preservation.

newcastle wrote:They showed little respect for the vestibule immediately after Amenhotep's sun court, covering the wall reliefs in classical Roman images

True dat.

Although covering up old images with plaster isn't quite the same as going around smashing up statues.

FarleyFlavors wrote: True dat.

Although covering up old images with plaster isn't quite the same as going around smashing up statues.

Well, I am not too sure as to 'True dat', FarleyFlavours.

When the Greeks arrived in Egypt, they sort of respected the culture of Egypt as it was, with the exception of the new Mickey Mouse temples that replaced, changed, or modernised a number of the well known temples of Upper Egypt, Essna being the worst example.

When the Romans arrived under the first Emperor Octavian, the nation of Egypt became his own private property, thus with Egypt being the grain basket of the empire, the Emperor ensured that HE and not the Senate, supplied bread and very often free, as the gift of the Emperor.

During the era known as Pax Romana, a period of time between Octavian and Marcus Aurelius, about 200 years, Egypt just carried on in its same old way. It is when we get to the year 330 A.D., that we find Roman Christianity becomes the official religion of the Empire, that we see serious changes in Egypt. The Christian fresco we see today at the far end East wall beyond the Sun Court in Luxor Temple certainly comes from that era.

The Coptic Church in Egypt would have us believe that it can trace its existence back to A.D.40, though this is simply not true. It is my belief that these remarkable statues were deliberately buried, until this 'new' outrageous religion of a new Horus character had faded away.

As far as I am aware the frescoes in the hall beyond the Sun Court are scenes depicting the worship of the divine emperor - in this case Diocletian - rather than anything to do with Copts.

In fact, Christians had a bit of a hard time when he was emperor

Yildez wrote:if I understood correctly, the lecturer was the son of the lead archaeologist.

Correct, he is also now the current Director of Karnak.

newcastle wrote:As far as I am aware the frescoes in the hall beyond the Sun Court are scenes depicting the worship of the divine emperor - in this case Diocletian - rather than anything to do with Copts.

As I understand it, they're scenes depicting the Tetrarchy established by Diocletian (there's the lower remains of two of them in a niche) and a celebratory parade. As you say, sod all to do with the Christians.

A-Four wrote:The Coptic Church in Egypt would have us believe that it can trace its existence back to A.D.40, though this is simply not true. It is my belief that these remarkable statues were deliberately buried, until this 'new' outrageous religion of a new Horus character had faded away.

Deliberately buried by whom? The Copts? I should think that's highly unlikely given that the temple was turned into a military fortess at the time.

FarleyFlavors wrote:

A-Four wrote:The Coptic Church in Egypt would have us believe that it can trace its existence back to A.D.40, though this is simply not true. It is my belief that these remarkable statues were deliberately buried, until this 'new' outrageous religion of a new Horus character had faded away.

Deliberately buried by whom? The Copts? I should think that's highly unlikely given that the temple was turned into a military fortess at the time.

First, thank you for your interest in this subject, but no these statues were certainly not buried by the Copts, but what I would want you to understand is that there was little difference in the so called mythology of The Horus, and what some might say, mythology of the Christ Child.

To get a true idea, I think we have to look at a not so distant earlier period in Roman history to gain a true idea of the era in question. With reference to the 'restored' fresco in the upper part of the temple wall, immediately high on the eastern side, this was 'restored' by a certain Italian lady, who went on to 'restore' certain paintings in the Khonsu and Opet Temples at Karnack. You will find reference to this in my subject post, which was posted on December 7th, 2014 in this section.

To the present day tourist, this 'picture' now looks as fresh as the day it was made, however this subject is quite irrelevant when it comes to dealing with the Luxor Cashette. I will explain more to my idea by the week end.

Thank you for your interest FarlyFlavours, I will write a full defence of my idea by then.

I went to a lecture the other evening, old pictures of Gourna.
I really went to look at the hotel.
I thought the lecturer was French, turns out he was German (lost in translation abound)
Besides previously seen photos the lecturer was simply unused to modern 'tecknology.
I gave up after a couple of hours after little had occurred including pictures or relevant information...
Ps: Why do lecturers, lecture ? A dentist's visit is less painful, is it vanity ?