Wheres MT when you need him?

[Dusak]

Taken from my FB page today.

Barbara Clarke shared her post.
1 hr
Barbara Clarke is with Theresa Clarke.
1 hr

CALLING ALL FOREIGN LUXOR RESIDENTS!!!
My friend Khaled Soliman wants to make a tourism promotion video about Luxor featuring us all talking about our beloved city. Also any tourists that are here at the time are welcome
Khaled recently made the video for Luxor day, so now wants to show more of the city.
Please comment below or send me a private message if you are interested in joining in.

I wonder what he would say to the mike?

[HEPZIBAH]

I see posts like that and I really want to be positive and encouraging but instead my eyes stat rolling, my heart sinks, and my hand clasps the top of my head in despair.

Please, please let this be a fresh and innovative film, not more of the 'Come to Luxor It's Safe' 'You should come here they need your money' adinfinitum (and neuseum) stuff that we've all seen before and groaned over.

[Major Thom]

Lets hope they spend some time cleaning the place up. I was under the impression that many in Luxor did not want the tourists back and had got used to the idea. If they suddenly flocked back for many it would be like the first day back at work after a 5 year holiday. This is just another attempt that will fail I think, mainly because the Egyptian pander, get ideas and things but they always refuse to let it be another faith or immigrants idea, it will always be their idea. Sorry to be a wet blanket but even now people do not think the Country is safe. Why was there 2000 people living in Luxor 5 years ago and around 200 now, says it all really. Even here ex pats and sometimes holiday makers cannot believe we lived in Egypt if we talk to them, all commenting "But did you feel safe" So the image has stuck and it will be hard to shed off. I would suggest let the people try, but beware of the pit falls there are many of them, and don't forget the false promises.

[hatusu]

Yes I too am frequently asked when I go back to the UK "Do I feel safe in Luxor?"
Well lets compare shall we -
Terrorist Attacks
Jan 2015 Ile de France 20 killed 22 injured
Nov 2015 Paris 137 killed 368 injured
Mar 2016 Brussels 35 killed 340 injured
July 2016 Nice 87 killed 434 injured
Dec 2016 Berlin 12 killed 56 injured
May 2017 Manchester 23 killed 250 injured
June 2017 London 11 killed 48 injured
Aug 2017 Barcelona 24 killed 152 injured

These are killings just listed in terrorist attacks and dont take into your average run of the mill murder or attempted murder
(apparently Boston in Lincolnshire comes No 1 for that crime if compared per ratio of population)

When I came to Luxor I left a small town in the Midlands called Burton on Trent -
Crime Rate August 2017
Violent Crime 95 (this is just one month dont forget)
Anti Social Behaviour 85
Criminal Damage 28
Theft 30
Robbery 4
Public Order 26

Give me the West Bank any day.

[HEPZIBAH]

I feel I should clarify my own thoughts on Luxor and safety because of my earlier post.

I have no undue concerns regarding my personal safety in Egypt. (Apart from trying to cross the promenade road in Alexandria!) It seems that wherever I travel, lre and post revolutions and civil unrest, almost without exception I am either told or asked about safety by well meaning friends. I have been visiting Luxor for many years now but I still get the same armchair critics telling me it's not safe, especially for a single woman.

The reason I dislike all the photographs and videos with the emphasis on 'SAFE' is because it immediately conjures up the possibility that for some reason it might not be. In fact, those saying '...it's safe' or holding posters saying it have often reminded me of propaganda pictures of hostages. I don't believe those types of holiday photograph have had any positive influence whatsoever.

To promote a location you need to focus on all the positive attributes - the sites, the hotels, the people - and entice people with its charms.

[Horus]

Let me start by saying I too believe Egypt and Luxor to be as safe a holiday destination as most other places, but playing devils advocate and using Hatusu’s figures, can I say that may be where the problem lies with many people.
So happening very close to home for many people in Europe we have:
Jan 2015 Ile de France 20 killed 22 injured
Nov 2015 Paris 137 killed 368 injured
Mar 2016 Brussels 35 killed 340 injured
July 2016 Nice 87 killed 434 injured
Dec 2016 Berlin 12 killed 56 injured
May 2017 Manchester 23 killed 250 injured
June 2017 London 11 killed 48 injured
Aug 2017 Barcelona 24 killed 152 injured

That amounts to a total (if my maths are correct) of 349 dead and 1670 injured in less than a 2 year period and without exception they were all carried out by fanatical Islamic terrorists or people affiliating themselves with these extreme groups like ISIS. This is no small number and for many it is very close to home, so I would suggest that the problem is not with Egypt but with anywhere that the public perceives to be Islamic, they fear the faith rather than the nationality. I know that this may be simplifying the matter and many may disagree, but whenever I speak to anyone regarding why they would not visit Middle Eastern countries the fact they are Islamic usually raises its head. Unfortunately the few have given the majority a bad name and until that perception changes I cannot see things getting any better,

[Yildez]

Let me start by saying I too believe Egypt and Luxor to be as safe a holiday destination as most other places, but playing devils advocate and using Hatusu’s figures, can I say that may be where the problem lies with many people.
So happening very close to home for many people in Europe we have:
Jan 2015 Ile de France 20 killed 22 injured
Nov 2015 Paris 137 killed 368 injured
Mar 2016 Brussels 35 killed 340 injured
July 2016 Nice 87 killed 434 injured
Dec 2016 Berlin 12 killed 56 injured
May 2017 Manchester 23 killed 250 injured
June 2017 London 11 killed 48 injured
Aug 2017 Barcelona 24 killed 152 injured

That amounts to a total (if my maths are correct) of 349 dead and 1670 injured in less than a 2 year period and without exception they were all carried out by fanatical Islamic terrorists or people affiliating themselves with these extreme groups like ISIS. This is no small number and for many it is very close to home, so I would suggest that the problem is not with Egypt but with anywhere that the public perceives to be Islamic, they fear the faith rather than the nationality. I know that this may be simplifying the matter and many may disagree, but whenever I speak to anyone regarding why they would not visit Middle Eastern countries the fact they are Islamic usually raises its head. Unfortunately the few have given the majority a bad name and until that perception changes I cannot see things getting any better,

Totally agree Horus. Whenever I visit Luxor Turkish friends are very concerned "It's not safe, too many terrorists there". Both are Muslim countries, but very, very different, especially with regard to religious practice. Also, most Turks have a deep distrust of Arab countries generally.

[Dusak]

When I was in Athens, one of the taxi drivers asked where did I come from. I told him Egypt. ''Egypt!'' He exclaimed, ''Its very hot there.'' A minuscule amount of the worlds population would ask ''Is it safe?'' And there lies the problem, a small handful of people would feel the need to ask that question when discovering that you lived there because they have a very low level of social interactive skills or are just plain ******* thick. If a child sneezes, an epidemic is sure to follow in some peoples minds.

[carrie]

True Dusak, when I was in Turkey people were interested but never asked if it was safe, suppose it depends who you mix with

[newcastle]

The idea that because islamic countries have a lot more muslims and therefore, in the minds of some, a lot more islamic terrorists on the rampage, is a rather naive way of looking at the situation.

As the figures indicate, as a tourist you're more likely to be accosted, statistically speaking, in one of Europe's capital cities than a Red Sea resort.

Why?

Because ISIS and its ilk have the evil West - US and Europe primarily - in their sights. Particularly so now that their objective of setting up a caliphate looks dead in the water. They seek revenge against the West who led the attacks on Mosul, Raqqa etc. Why bother to target a few sun-bathing tourists when the megacities of Europe are wide open to lone wolf attacks which sow terror amongst millions.

I'll acknowledge that there is a perception problem when it comes to Egypt. I've just returned from London to the usual chorus of "be carefuls". It is worrying that large numbers of people equate islam/muslims generally with terrorism.

In that sense, ISIS and its affiliates have had great success.

[HEPZIBAH]

Of course, the other big problem is lack of direct flights to Luxor. They do seem to be being reintroduced, or even introduced, from some countries, but to be honest the choice from the UK is very restricted and overpriced (mile per mile compared with other destinations).

Until travel companies find Luxor an attractive destination, giving with it the perceived protection of having on site reps to hold your hand and organise your ever waking moment, unfortunately it will not get on the tourist map.

[A-Four]

I think we on here are missing the point about Luxor equally as much as the Clarke sisters, you can say what you like about the lack of of tourism in Luxor, but one thing is for use it has nothing to do with terrorism in that region. There have always been acts of terrorism in Egypt for over the past 30 years, they have their own home variety even in the Nile Valley who's main headquarters has always been Assuit, which is the equivalent to the past 'troubles' of Northern Ireland. The fact is that the news, unlike Northern Ireland never got out, not even to 'The Caccoon' that I have always called Luxor.

I do not believe we can compare terrorism in Luor or Egyt with similar acts in London. Terrorist organisations know full well they will get maximum publicity, from a FREE press, where in the likes of Egypt, press releases are strictly controlled by their governments. You only have to look at recent events.

It is also a fact that a new generation of Europeans now begin to see Egypt as many of the 'red neck' people of the U.S.A. have always regarded the individual nations of the Arab world simply as A - RABS, and the stereo typical attitude towards them.

The main reason however, why Luxor will never enjoy the popularity of its past, was being prepared even before the end of the Mubarak era, by the then central government had very clear ideas as to how Luxor's future would be, and I certainly wrote about it on this forum at that time, but was given the same attitude as what I suppose MT gets today.

Years ago now the whole of the international hotel chains pulled out, the small hotels were told they would have to up-date their facilities and more importantly their safety systems to international standards, or else the holiday package companies would not be able to use them etc etc. The truth was there had been little or no investment throughout the boom years,......Surely, some of you must remember the various water features, that never really worked.

The great plan for Luxor has not and will not change mass tourism,if it ever returns to the Nile Valley then the Luxor area will be regarded as like Essna, Kom Ombo and Edfu,........a day visit, with no stop-over.

It is now time Luxor got its act together, it could start by beautifying the areas that such day tourists will see, they could start by planting trees and grass on bothe sides of the newly created Sphinx Avenue,.........and we can get real by saying that tourist authorities will never want to bother gentrifying anywhere near where the Clarke sisters live, or any other areas of the city, for a very special reason that all past tourist to Luxor should know.

[newcastle]

It's more than a little puzzling that the increasing perception that Egypt is an "ok" destination....as witnessed by the sharp increase in bookings to the Red Sea.....has not resulted in a comparable increase in interest to visiting Luxor.

It is "consumer interest" which, to a large extent, drives the availability of flights etc.

Makes you wonder whether there's something else behind the problem

The Luxor of today doesn't, to me, look that much different from the Luxor of the 'boom years' and I'd be surprised if the world's perception of Egypt, the Egyptians or "A-RABS" generally, has altered much in 7-8 years.

Except, of course, that since 9/11 we have seen the Middle East become a region of turmoil and, despite the best efforts of the tourism industry, the typical tourist is unwilling, or unable, to distinguish one Middle East country from another.

Looking on the bright side, the dearth of tourists has rung the death knell for many substandard hotels, cruises and other businesses whilst making visits to the archaeological sites an altogether more pleasurable experience.

[Hafiz]

A video by some local saying Luxor is OK. Bound to be effective. Which person skilled in tourism marketing ever said that such a local amateur hour video was going to have any positive effect?

All you need to know about the Sisters brains is made clear..

The obvious is clear - as A-Four says - the 'connected' got out of Luxor a while ago and the flights, marketing expenditures are exactly as the government wants - the coast - and if you need a day or so in Cairo. That is all they want and no idiot video will change the big picture and the tens of millions of awful marketing or the scheduling of flights.

After years of sucking up to various governors I would be delighted if the Sisters could point to a single achievement - either for westerners of locals. Given this 10 year 'track record' of 'achievement' you draw the conclusion of the chances of their future advice being any better. On the other hand maybe they want their friend Farag, and his bulldozers, back.

I last noticed them trying to raise money from rich tourists at 5 star hotels for a local charity/children's program/orphanage which has received 'less than flattering' recent local media coverage. I'm being coy about what the local media said. Maybe that is another example of their 'good judgement' and connection with good ideas.

What one reads from the better expatriate residents is that they stay low and behave generously. If any were marketing/tourist geniuses with a successful track record they might try more.

[Who2]

Is it safe ?.....

phpBB [video]

[Major Thom]

One of the posts n here hits the problem but goes on with no solution. There are but one flight to Luxor and its not direct. The questions need answering Why is there only one flight and why are people not purchasing holidays to Luxor?
There is more than the safety aspect to the place....
Answer that and your half way to the solution to why people are not holidaying in Luxor.

[newcastle]

It's easy to overstate the downturn in tourism in Egypt and reports of its demise are certainly premature. The numbers of tourist arrivals paint a fairly clear picture of dramatic falls followed by rapid recovery...although less rapid in the last two years. As to the sharp falls:

2005-6 the Sharm/Dahab bombings and the onset of a worldwide economic decline.

2011 a revolution

2013 a counter-revolution

2015-6 the Sinai plane downing

With the whole of the Middle East & North Africa now under a cloud of conflict which has lasted several years, any recovery is bound to be slow. However, tourism arrivals have more than doubled in 2017 over 2016 and the upward trend is continuing.

That Luxor has lagged behind in this general recovery is largely down to the difficulty of access. Current hotel occupancy figures of 40%+ whilst well below peaks of earlier years are much better than 2011-16 when at times it fell to below 5%.

Access is, at least in part, down to the tour operators and although the Germans and other Europeans have resumed flights, the British are still not flying direct whilst the Russians (who in any case preferred the Red sea) still have an embargo on Egypt generally. The Chinese interest has taken up some of the slack but a resumption of direct UK flights would have a significant effect.

Unless, and until, this happens, the recovery of tourism numbers in Luxor will be slow but steady....barring another cataclysmic event.

Whilst the British press continue to focus on Egyptian terrorism 100's of kilometres from the tourist resorts, or the plight of a stupid woman caught smuggling banned drugs into the country, many UK holidaymakers are still buying the "Egypt is unsafe" mantra. The fact that tourists seem at greater risk from terrorists in Europe appears to have escaped readers of the Daily Mail & Sun...the barometers of UK opinion according to Jacob Rees-Mogg.

God help us! ( I wonder if his opinion might change when they chew over his involvement in the Paradise Papers.)

But....hey...bad news from Egypt sells papers and is a change from the Trump & Brexit debacles which, frankly, get boring after a while.

[Major Thom]

All bad news at the moment, and while this is going on tourists will stay away. I mean the TUI flight is mainly aimed at the Red Sea. The problem is Newc. no one from the UK wants to go to Luxor, and operators will not fly empty planes. Oh by the way there was the EgyptAir flight that crashed into the Med. and the proposed bomber who tried to bomb Karnak Temple, these are just as significant as the other things. Has anyone seen the report or heard what happened to the crashed EgyptAir flight? or is it been covered up! I have to be honest all the news coming out of Egypt would put me off if I had never been. But out of all the UK people that visit 50% go home with the thought of not returning. The place needs so much spending on it and there is no money

[newcastle]

One of things about Egypt I find distressing is the public attitude to animal welfare. Stray dogs being poisoned is a regular feature of Hurghada news and the plight of Luxor's caleche horses and donkeys is often remarked on by visitors.

But not only in Egypt apparently.

"A public outcry over cases of horrific abuse against dogs has pushed animal rights to the forefront of the political agenda in Cyprus, three months before presidential elections.

There was outrage over the summer when nine dogs belonging to a family of hunters were burned alive in cages they were never allowed to leave.

Further anger erupted recently when a group of tourists discovered dead and emaciated dogs lying amid excrement and animal remains in enclosures near Paphos in the island’s south-west."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ion-agenda

And another case....

"Billy, a stray black poodle was reportedly chased by the two Protaras hotel employees because he was on the hotel’s grounds, beaten and thrown alive into a cardboard crusher. He was rescued by people who heard his dog’s cries, but died a few days later. An autopsy showed the cause of death was a brain haemorrhage from severe trauma to the base of Billy’s skull."

http://cyprus-mail.com/2017/11/09/supre ... g-killers/

The employees were acquitted due to "lack of witnesses"....a decision which is being appealed.

Perhaps MT was prescient in having his mutt destroyed rather than risk taking it to Cyprus

[carrie]

I don't know where MT gets his statistics from, how do you know that fifty percent of people visiting Egypt vow never to return? Many people visit a place or a country and never return not because they don't like it but because they have visited and next time want to try a new place, there are lots of countries in the world and lots of things to see.
Another statistic that baffles me is that "at one time there were 2000 ex pats living in Luxor, really? Now only 200 remain, I was counting up the other night how many ex pats I knew that lived here and I don't claim to know them all but there are more than 200 that I know.