Luxor4u

Ok today I have a hot topic on my mind its about the Pharaohs of Exodus who I believe were both Ramses I and his son Seti I.

My believes solely comes from the fact that on his raid The northeast Seti stumbled upon a wandering band of Nomads called the Shasu of Yahweh. They eventually got captured and possibly were those who built Pi-Ramses. Speaking of that place alot of people dont know that this site was already established by Ramses II predecessors. I believe that it was meant to be the royal families summer place. if so this would then tie in to the story that truly the site was built by the Hebrews Aka the Shasu of Yahweh. Allow this I believe occured during the time of Ramses I whom I sort of believe reigned more than what was stated.

I believe that Moses was the fostef brother of Seti not Ramses because of this reason

Seti lost his first born son for unknown reasons and Seti was pretty hurt by it. Of course it said that pharaoh chased down thr Hebrews and was washed up by the sea but we know no Pharaoh is goings to get up and do that unlesd they are someone like Seti who was very active in his father's reign.

I'm not saying that I don't believe in the bible but I believe that times and years in the book maybe over exaggerated but happened at a more reasonable and faster rate.

What about the possibility of Akhenaton being Moses ?
How do you think they survived for 40 years in the desert ?
Why did the Pharoah come after the Hebrews ( who are NOT the Jews) so late after they left ?
How did Moses Part the Red Sea ?
What is the relevance of the Arc in all of this ?


Questions, Questions, Questions...

PS. I Really do not think that those big black granite statues are Rameses II either.

Good questions but I don't Akhenaten was Moses I do believe that Exodus happened between the time of Ramses I and at the very beginning of Seti I. he was a serious king.

I'm still trying to figure out of all the later kings why did Seti hate Akhenaten the most. Yeah we are given the reason why but to me thats not good enough

Given the popular Egyptology theories, I would say Rameses III is the best bet as Pharaoh of the Exodus.


Why could Akhenaton NOT be Moses, given what happened in Amania ? Do you not think he may want some form of revenge ?
Akhenaton's body has never been found, he could have lived to a ripe old age, as it seems they did back in those days, the last of a breed perhaps ?
Why did Moses not join the people in the promised land ? That to me seems the most incredulous part of the whole story..

I believe that Moses could'nt because he lacked faith or something like that.

I do believe that Moses could have lived just outside of it and perhaps was buried Outside of Israel like at its borders.

The reason why I said that Akhenaten could'nt have been Moses because I feel strongly that he's not but whom am I to say.

I have a theory that the Israelites may well have been forced to leave Egypt, Kicked out even.
But they are not going to say that in their records.
The Hebrews were in Babylon ( which means confusion ) then in Egypt... Maybe they were trying to bring something to Egypt from Babylon that the Egyptians did not want ?

I do find it odd that they (the Israelites ) who really are not the Hebrews, but much confusion exists as to the Hebrews, Israelites, and Jews, and of course, the missing 11 tribes of Israel... Hmmm...

40 years surviving in a desert, to me that sounds like enough time to indoctrinate the people into a new way of thinking, a society change taking place in the desert. I do not doubt the parting of the red sea, or the manna from heaven.
Israelites desperate to get out of Egypt, and yet in Jeremiah I think 43, we hear that many of the Israelites want to return to Egypt and are forbidden to do so ..
What did they take out of Egypt that the Pharaoh wanted back ? I doubt he wanted the people back, it would be a mammoth task trying to round up a million people and herd them back to Egypt.
The Israelites claim to have fabricated the Arc while in the desert to hold the ten commandments. Yeah...

So, following on from Abraham ( the Original Jew )
A take on the "Slaves" ? of Egypt and the Exodus..

Bullet Magnet wrote:I have a theory that the Israelites may well have been forced to leave Egypt, Kicked out even.

Simon Schama made a series a while ago on the history of the Jews. On Elephantine Island in Aswan, he revealed the presence of a Jewish Temple among the ruins on the Southern end of the island, and theorised that the sacrifice of sheep next to a temple dedicated to the ram-headed god Khnum possibly upset the Egyptians, and caused the expulsion of the Jewish community in the area. Certainly it's possible that Pharaoh may have blamed a low Nile flood or two on them angering the local God, on a site where rituals were performed for the success of the critical flood. Would be interesting to know whether this formed at least some part of the true Exodus story.

Alistair1967 wrote:

Bullet Magnet wrote:I have a theory that the Israelites may well have been forced to leave Egypt, Kicked out even.

Simon Schama made a series a while ago on the history of the Jews. On Elephantine Island in Aswan, he revealed the presence of a Jewish Temple among the ruins on the Southern end of the island, and theorised that the sacrifice of sheep next to a temple dedicated to the ram-headed god Khnum possibly upset the Egyptians, and caused the expulsion of the Jewish community in the area. Certainly it's possible that Pharaoh may have blamed a low Nile flood or two on them angering the local God, on a site where rituals were performed for the success of the critical flood. Would be interesting to know whether this formed at least some part of the true Exodus story.

Many Coptic Christians will tell you that they were the first Church, this is simply not true. After 70 AD the Jews were kicked out of their homeland, the new faith, being Christian-Jews set themselves apart, not just from other Jews but also Egyptians too, and built small temples way down in the South of Egypt, in various locations, there are remains of such a small temple visible today, even on the WB at Luxor.

True, as Scharma says they were kicked out of Egypt, this was because as with the old Jewish faith, that sacrificed animals on the steps of their temple - church. The locals thought this barbaric, being that they left the meat to rot. This whole new strange religious group were eventually kicked out, and they travelled further south, to form what we call today The Ethiopian Church, being ofcourse the first Church in Christendom.

So I suppose you are barking up the wrong exit, and certainly not the one you are seeking. .

Interesting you mention Ethiopia, I have a theory about the Arc being housed there...

It seems to me that the Hebrews changed in culture and in name, the 12 tribes of Israel finally leaves us with just the Jews.

South is where I know the true Ancient Egyptians went to, and as they disappeared so the technology declined in Egypt.

Also, I find this part of the good book interesting..

43 When Jeremiah had finished telling the people all the words of the Lord their God—everything the Lord had sent him to tell them— 2 Azariah son of Hoshaiah and Johanan son of Kareah and all the arrogant men said to Jeremiah, “You are lying! The Lord our God has not sent you to say, ‘You must not go to Egypt to settle there.’ 3 But Baruch son of Neriah is inciting you against us to hand us over to the Babylonians,[a] so they may kill us or carry us into exile to Babylon.”

4 So Johanan son of Kareah and all the army officers and all the people disobeyed the Lord’s command to stay in the land of Judah. 5 Instead, Johanan son of Kareah and all the army officers led away all the remnant of Judah who had come back to live in the land of Judah from all the nations where they had been scattered. 6 They also led away all those whom Nebuzaradan commander of the imperial guard had left with Gedaliah son of Ahikam, the son of Shaphan—the men, the women, the children and the king’s daughters. And they took Jeremiah the prophet and Baruch son of Neriah along with them. 7 So they entered Egypt in disobedience to the Lord and went as far as Tahpanhes.

8 In Tahpanhes the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah: 9 “While the Jews are watching, take some large stones with you and bury them in clay in the brick pavement at the entrance to Pharaoh’s palace in Tahpanhes. 10 Then say to them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: I will send for my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and I will set his throne over these stones I have buried here; he will spread his royal canopy above them. 11 He will come and attack Egypt, bringing death to those destined for death, captivity to those destined for captivity, and the sword to those destined for the sword. 12 He will set fire to the temples of the gods of Egypt; he will burn their temples and take their gods captive. As a shepherd picks his garment clean of lice, so he will pick Egypt clean and depart. 13 There in the temple of the sun in Egypt he will demolish the sacred pillars and will burn down the temples of the gods of Egypt.’”


Back to the Exodus. 40 years to complete a 2 month journey.

I blame to procrastination on indoctrination, but the procrastination could have been far more sinister. I would like to think not, but it is a possibility.

When ever doing factual research within the realms of the Old Testament or for that matter the first four books of the New Testament, we have to remember that arigorical terms are used throughout, also remember that the four gospels, hold many 'parables', which mean, something quite different from how you first read them, in other words, they are written in code.

The Dead Sea Scrolls were written in a very similar manner, that is why brilliant scholars took more than 50 years to 'translate' them. It took them years to work out that the word kitten as written was code for the Romans. Even today people are still arguing about the true translation, and as for the so called Copper Scroll, this has proved to be a translating night mare.

If the Arc actually existed and is still around today, it makes common sense that it must be in Ethiopia.

Although this above statement might sound crazy to some, once you have a good sense of local geography, history, religious practices, and the law of the Egyptians, Jews and Romans at that time, then one is able to say what was possible,.........and what was not.

Axum, St Marys ?

The Knight Templars were supposed to be guarding the route for pilgrims, but as per usual with these so called benevolent institutions, they had an alternative agenda as we will see.

The Knights Templars were seeking the Arc in Israel, and dug several tunnels which survive today.
The site in which they dug the tunnels was possibly the old home of the Arc, Shiloh, which is an interesting name in itself.
Solomon's temple perhaps ? I am not too well up on those places, and I feel I must visit Israel one day.

Clearly it was moved prior to the Babylonian invasion and subsequent overthrow of 587 BC.

Anyway, they ( the Knights Templars) could not have found the Arc, but they must have found some sort of "supporting documentation", as we see the Architecture in Europe suddenly change when they returned to Europe.


As I have often said before, I do think we need to redefine the word "Holy", and "God". "God" being the source of "Holy" when we look at these Ancient texts.

They spoke in a much different way, than we do today..

One always have to ask questions about religion.

Frater0082 wrote:One always have to ask questions about religion.

You'd think it prudent to do so wouldn't you... ?

i agree with you 100%

One has to start with the question, "Was there an Exodus?"

You could do worse than read some of Ahmed Osmans's books....


http://www.ahmedosman.com/books.html

His first hypothesis was that Joseph was the father-in-law of Amenhotep III, Yuya. In 1987 this claim provided the basis for his first book, Stranger in the Valley of the Kings.

Osman identified the Semitic-born Egyptian official Joseph with the Egyptian official Yuya, and asserted the identification of Hebrew liberator Moses with the Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten (as did Sigmund Freud in his book Moses and Monotheism).

Ahmed Osman has also claimed that Moses and Akhenaten were the same person, supporting his belief by interpreting aspects of biblical and Egyptian history. He alleges that Atenism can be considered monotheistic and related to Judaism, and includes other similarities, including a ban on idol worship and the similarity of the name Aten to the Hebrew Adon, or "Lord". This would mesh with Osman's other claim that Akhenaten's maternal grandfather Yuya was the same person as the Biblical Joseph.

I was first introduced to Osman by Charlie, if you remember him ( Mrs Doubtfire as was) many moons ago.