Death of Tutankhamun 2015

[Frater0082]

Okay for the past few months I have been wondering about the death of Tutankhamun. Yes Yes we heard it all before whether Tut died either by an accident or by just fallen off a chariot or even murdered so what if his death wasn't as dramatic as we all thought it was. what if Tutankhamun accidently fell down some steps are was pushed down a long fleet of steps.

I don't care what nobody says(even though I wasn't there) I still think that Tutankhmun was murdered. I find it hard to believe that after 10 years of his reign and just when he's about to reach the prime of his life that he all of a sudden died of diseases passed on through genetics.Furthermore if that was the case he wouldn't have made it passed puberty cause he was the third generation of inbreeding.

I believe that Ay and the rest of the high priest of Amun could've wanted to get rid of the last Associations of Akhenaten which was his son and hurried up and did away with his body. Therefore a power-hungry priest got what he wanted, dominion over Egypt.

It was even stated that Horemheb was Tut's crown prince his co-regent if one wants to look at it that way. which led me to believe that Horemheb was the force behind the throne instead of Ay. Which is why Ay is not credited to this title. My suspicions are backed up do the fact that Ay cheated Horemheb out of getting throne.

My question is why? Wasn't there not Turmoil between them or did a power hungry Ay seized an opportunity to to take throne. I think Tutankhamun's widow was killed off after the death of her husband but only years later through the times of Ramses l.

[Who2]

History is littered with deaths perpetuated by those in power we in England have learnt to live with this, the last being Princess Diana shed no tear on her passing, history and the crown is far greater than one single human, same now as was the same then…

[Frater0082]

About that...another day.

Well said.

[Bullet Magnet]

History is written by the Victor, and that is why the Good Guy always wins

I mean, Ancient Egyptian History re-written to cover up a huge mistake or two. People will believe anything they are told rather than look for themselves..

[Frater0082]

I still believe that Horemheb was Tut's Co-regent and Ay was his political princess. Heck Akhenaten had two by the time he was sick both Nefertiti and Smenkhare who could've been some one totally alien to the royal family.


I still hold a question about my story? If I was there wh Horemheb? I never saw him in a day of my life and I know I was 19 years old when I got back to Egypt. That meant that I had to have appeared in his fourth year of rule But he was not there. I was assigned as a servant to Seti so I assumed thats why but still no Horemheb.

I've Met Seti I, Ramses I, Sitre, and Tuya but no Horemheb.

I know that the Y14 date is pretty evident on wine jars but so is a Y57 and 27 date. To me all three lengths should be ruled unless you want to say that he counted the years of Ay and Tutankhamun into his own. Or it could been his reign plus that of Tutankhamun. however there is much evidence that suggests that Horemheb had a short reign.

For one his tomb. Seti was halfway done with his tomb by the very early part of his reign. In fact it was painted and every thing and this was before his second sob was born. Horemheb's own tomb was partiality finished. Why when at 14 years of rule it should've been done at least before his third or fourth year.

For two there were little less military action going on. Whereas Seti had quite a few in fact it is stated that Seti's ambition was to reclaim land that wad lost during the Amarna Period and restore balance in Egypt. Heck Horemheb could've done that all the time he had but he didn't. Which brings me to this question why on God's green Earth did it take so many pharaohs to fix the Aten issue. If we go by modern Egyptology time it would've been 32 years and yet by the time of Seti he just so happened to restore Egypt, really it took that long?

Another thing I would like to add is Seti's despise of the Amarna king Akhenaten. If we go by Egyptologists time Seti would've been born in the time of Tutankhamun clearly no connection to that pharoah unless some of Akhenaten's important relatives were still around which in my case was Akhenaten's six remaining daughter and his ******* son.

Seti was clearly trying to wipe Akhenaten and everyone accociated with him from existence. Why when it was said to have been done in the latter kings reign.

Last but not least Horemheb had two wives Amenia (which is a very lovely name) and Mutnodjemet and niether haf a child for him I wonder why. 14 years he should've had a dozen but none, not even for Amenia. I wonder about Horemheb's sexuality. All the trappings of a king and not a single child, hmm.

Was he a bad swinger or what. Don't tell me that it was low fertility rate because he had two wives. who knowa

But anyways I think it makes much more sense to say that this king had a smaller rule.

[A-Four]

History is written by the Victor, and that is why the Good Guy always wins

I mean, Ancient Egyptian History re-written to cover up a huge mistake or two. People will believe anything they are told rather than look for themselves..

Fratter, this is very good advise from BM, in the case here in question, a tomb can give very important information even today that most people do not see, or then again want to see, because they have read THE BOOK, and it must be correct.

I have recently been in conversation with a number of people who believe cats and dogs in Ancient Egypt were given names,........no so, but many authors on the subject say yes. A dog was given a name to fit its character, like frisky or silly, but nothing else.

With regards to your main subject here, I am very busy for at least a month, but will come back to it,...........in the meantime, read more books, and check the qualifications of the author, so that he or she understands your subjects, otherwise you may end up reading works of a similar character being discussed elsewhere on this site.

[newcastle]

History is written by the Victor, and that is why the Good Guy always wins

I mean, Ancient Egyptian History re-written to cover up a huge mistake or two. People will believe anything they are told rather than look for themselves..

Fratter, this is very good advise from BM, in the case here in question, a tomb can give very important information even today that most people do not see, or then again want to see, because they have read THE BOOK, and it must be correct.

I have recently been in conversation with a number of people who believe cats and dogs in Ancient Egypt were given names,........no so, but many authors on the subject say yes. A dog was given a name to fit its character, like frisky or silly, but nothing else.

With regards to your main subject here, I am very busy for at least a month, but will come back to it,...........in the meantime, read more books, and check the qualifications of the author, so that he or she understands your subjects, otherwise you may end up reading works of a similar character being discussed elsewhere on this site.

Really??

You are being pedantic. Where do you think our "birth names" came from?

An example :
Origin and History of the Name Robert. From the Germanic name Hrodebert meaning "bright fame", derived from the Germanic elements hrod "fame" and beraht "bright". The Normans introduced this name to Britain, where it replaced the Old English cognate Hreodbeorht.

Ancient Egyptian names were usually more obviously referential....e.g. "Nefertiti" - "the beautiful One has arrived".

Of course, unlike Frater, I wasn't around at the time but it seems entirely logical that Egyptians would give their pets names and there are many examples of exactly that.

[A-Four]

What I should have added here was that I mean't the ordinary people did not give names to their cats and dogs, in ancient Egypt, which actually is the same in many cases today in Upper Egypt, with regards to their pet cat,.......they simply call them el biss, and nothing else. Often even a pet dog is still called jarro, when a pup or kelp when adult.

With regards to names for people, I don't think I mentioned them.

[Bullet Magnet]

I would often sit on the upper terrace of the Africa restaurant on the WB, and watch the world go by from above.
The traffic at the makeshift roundabout leading to the ferry road and the packs of dogs roaming the streets were my main point of focus,
Just me, my book and my cup of Chai Nana ..

[newcastle]

What I should have added here was that I mean't the ordinary people did not give names to their cats and dogs, in ancient Egypt, which actually is the same in many cases today in Upper Egypt, with regards to their pet cat,.......they simply call them el biss, and nothing else. Often even a pet dog is still called jarro, when a pup or kelp when adult.

With regards to names for people, I don't think I mentioned them.

I've no idea what point you're trying to make.

Nowadays people usually name their pets after attributes -real or imagined - rather than standard christian names like David or Michael.

Even these christian names have ancient origins...they didn't just "appear".

The common Egyptian name "Hassan" derives from the Arabic hasuna meaning "to be beautiful; to be good"

The ancient Egyptians were no different :

"We even know many ancient Egyptian dog's names from leather collars as well as stelae and reliefs. They included names such as Brave One, Reliable, Good Herdsman, North-Wind, Antelope and even "Useless". Other names come from the dogs color, such as Blacky, while still other dogs were given numbers for names, such as "the Fifth". Many of the names seem to represent endearment, while others convey merely the dogs abilities or capabilities. However, even as in modern times, there could be negative connotations to dogs due to their nature as servants of man. Some texts include references to prisoners as "the king's dogs""

(http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/dogs)

It wouldn't be surprising to find "North Wind" used as a boy's name....although I have seen no examples.

Cats & dogs in particular received much more consideration in ancient Egypt than they appear to nowadays

[Frater0082]

Okay I will

[Brian Yare]

Cats in Great Britain are also sometimes given names depicting character. My first cat was Oedipus (as in Oedipus and we de people). Another cat was Bugger". Don't ask! Quite embarassing to go out and call him in from the street.

[Bullet Magnet]

My cat was named Pink by my daughter, because of her Pink nose and paw pads ( the Cat's not my daughters)
I didn't like that name, the wife suggested Fleur or Fifi, we also call her Puss Puss, but no matter what you call her, she does not respond, so there is little point in calling her anything at all really, apart from "Cat".. =^..^=
She is belligerent as I am, I cant imagine where she get's it from...

[A-Four]

I am informed this morning that there was quite an interesting article called 'Animals in Ancient Egypt' written up in Cultural Section of Al-Ahram Weekly on 12th February, and still available on the internet.

Although the articles is very interesting throughout with regards all animals, it may be of interest to some, a paragraph that is universally accepted, with regards to domesticated cats and dogs. Even today, most people in Upper Egypt refer to such 'pets' as either cat or dog, and not by a name, like Jack, etc.

My whole purpose of this information I have written on this subject, is to introduce to Fratter the fact that many things we see to today in Upper Egypt has little changed since The 18th -20th Dynasty.

As I have already written I shall come back to this subject soon, when I have time.

[newcastle]

I am informed this morning that there was quite an interesting article called 'Animals in Ancient Egypt' written up in Cultural Section of Al-Ahram Weekly on 12th February, and still available on the internet.

Although the articles is very interesting throughout with regards all animals, it may be of interest to some, a paragraph that is universally accepted, with regards to domesticated cats and dogs. Even today, most people in Upper Egypt refer to such 'pets' as either cat or dog, and not by a name, like Jack, etc.

My whole purpose of this information I have written on this subject, is to introduce to Fratter the fact that many things we see to today in Upper Egypt has little changed since The 18th -20th Dynasty.

As I have already written I shall come back to this subject soon, when I have time.

You will find the article contradicts what you say....certainly with regard to dogs. I quote :

"Dogs and cats were kept as pets, particularly during the New Kingdom, and cats were also the focus of a notable religious cult during the Late Period. The most popular breed of dog was the greyhound, depicted in paintings with floppy ears, a slim body and a long tail. The ancient Egyptians called their dogs by names indicating shapes or colours (“blacky”), faults (“rascal”) or qualities (“fido”)."

Dogs do not enjoy the same 'popularity' nowadays either. Many modern Egyptians are wary of them.

The fact that dogs are considered "impure" by many muslims has also affected their 'status' in Egyptian society.

Apart from the continued use of mud brick in construction, I'd say much has changed since 1500BC.....although the upper Egypt population have little more say in the control of their affairs today than they had under the pharaohs

[A-Four]

You will find the article contradicts what you say....certainly with regard to dogs. I quote :

"Dogs and cats were kept as pets, particularly during the New Kingdom, and cats were also the focus of a notable religious cult during the Late Period. The most popular breed of dog was the greyhound, depicted in paintings with floppy ears, a slim body and a long tail. The ancient Egyptians called their dogs by names indicating shapes or colours (“blacky”), faults (“rascal”) or qualities (“fido”).":

But, did I not already say this above with reference to names in an earlier post.

In regards to the term 'pets', I view this in the same manner as farmers keep dogs, as a 'door-bell' or alarm, and cats to keep away mice and rats. In modern times, it was policy in the West that a dog slept in a kennel out side the domestic home, these days its often the case that they sleep at the bottom of peoples beds,.....times change, but in the East this is not so, and not always because of ones religion.

[Frater0082]

I came to a conclusion on Tut's death. (Even though I was not there). I feel as though he fell down a fleet a stairs and died due to the fall.

Those palace floors didn't have soft carpet on them they could of been like marble or stone it could've been a nasty fall.

I imagine him lying there for a brief moment until someone found him on the ground. It must have been a shocking a very emotional scene. I bet the guards thus Ankhesenpaaten Tasherit and the priests all running to Tut's lifeless body. The news must have spread like wildfire and those who cared wept but I doubt there were many.

I feel that this is how he died now. Whether he was pushed down is Now unlikely. Thus we could rule Ay out as a murderer I do think he switched the King's Burial to protect his body from grave robbers and those who destroyed his father's body.

So I conclude that Tut might have just fell down a long fleet of steps to his death.

[A-Four]

An off the wall question for you here Fratter.

Can you give a reason why Tut was encased in a solid gold inner coffin, a Pharaoh who reigned for only a few years, when the likes of such great men like Ramassis II, who made Egypt very wealthy, ended up with a gold leaf topped wood inner coffin version.

[Bullet Magnet]

Now THAT is a question more people should have asked...

[newcastle]

The coffin housing the mummy of Ramesses II found in the Deir el Bahari cache is not the one he was originally buried in so comparisons are irrelevant.

Moreover, there is a lot of evidence that much of the funeral equipment of Tutankhamun, including the innermost coffin of solid gold, was hijacked from the burials of his Amarna ancestors and re-designed to suit the young pharaoh who had died unexpectedly.