The church of the Nativity

[JOJO]

Why are things never as they really seem to be?
Just reading up on Palestine and in particular Bethlehem. The stable that's really a cave that JC was born in is marked by the church of Nativity. Evidence shows that as early as 2,000 BC a pagan site/shrine stood there to honor the fertility God of the Canaanites ' Lahmothe'. During the reign of Emperor Hadrian (around 130 AD)he had a temple constructed above the Pagan site in honor of the God Adonis. Hadrian built this temple in memory of his love that had just died. During the next 300 yrs Christians passing through felt Hadrian must have built such a temple on sacred ground and nothing could be more sacred than the spot in which Christ was born.
During a visit of Byzantine Empress Helena (339 AD) she ordered the construction of the church of Nativity before she left so all Christians passing through could worship.......the 'word' still hadn't gone global until the Persians stormed through Palestine and on seeing the illustrations of the 3 Madgi decided not to burn down the church of Nativity and instead prayed and paid there respect. From then on The spot became a place of worship for Christians and Muslims alike.

..... .....Being an Atheist and not believing JC was the son of God or a prophet the history books still convince me enough that it's likely a man called Jesus did exist and may of done some good kind things.....yet alone the comfort and strength he as brought people alone gains my uppermost respect...so to visit Bethlehem for me was still going to be a wow...now I have a feeling it could be another one of those eye rolling moments "KKKKK then"!...so like I said why is nothing ever as it seems! pffft

[A-Four]

Without a shaddow of a doubt, the person known to us today as Jesus Christ lived, whether he was the son of God, is another thing. As for being a prophet, l am not sure.

[Yildez]

You mention the Empress Helena's founding of the Church of the Nativity: she made a tour of the Holy Land to identify the sites of the New Testament and retrieve holy relics for the Emperor, her son Constantine I think, in Byzantium. 300 years on from the supposed birth of Christ I think there must have been quite a lot of "creative thinking" in sorting out exactly what was what and where!!! Among other things that she took back to Byzantium was the supposed Crown of Thorns, which disapeared after the fall of the city; if I remember correctly St Chappelle in Paris has part of what is believed to have been the relic that Helena found. The collection (and no doubt production!) of relics became big business that continued right through to the 18th century. Helena's visit started a trend that continues today with modern tourists!

As a historian, and an atheist, I am fascinated by the layers of history that surround most of the "holy" sites of all religions. Has anyone else read "The Pharoah's Shadow" by Anthony Sattin? Very, very interesting!

[Winged Isis]

Oh, yes, Y! I was given it just after my first visit to Egypt (2002). I couldn't believe the author had noticed and thought many things the same as me. I'm sure I've mentioned it on the forum some time. You have inspired me to read it again, as I haven't since the first time. Cheers!

[JOJO]

I've not read that book Yildez - off to google it now.....

[Winged Isis]

I found my original post which has all the necessary details. Have copied it below, J...


The book is called "The Pharaoh's Shadow. Travels in Ancient and Modern Egypt." and it is by Anthony Sattin. Publisher: Victor Gollancz, 2000. ISBN 0 575 06397 1
I had only recently pulled it from my collection to loan to a friend, and it is on the desk beside me as I read your post! Spooky!
I was given it by a friend, and I too found it fascinating, as he writes about many things I had myself observed...ie. Egypt may be thrusting itself into the 21st century, but it hasn't shaken off the beliefs of it's ancestors from thousands of years ago.

[Lisak]

You have Jojo...You borrowed my copy.

[Bullet Magnet]

There was a man name jmmanuel at about the time of jesus, although a century or two earlier than stated by the bible JOJO, and well worth looking into.
He had an Egyptian mother, and if I am right, she was a product of Armania.
Having made a couple of links with Joseph of Arimathea being here in North Wales, and who was preaching Christianity long before the Romans invented it.
I also have a strong belief that JC's mother ended up in Anglesey. But that is proving hard for me to confirm right now.
Strange as it may seem, I believe she was immortal, and in normal human thinking, that would be a terrible curse.

Christianity seems to have changed quite a lot over the years. At first, it even promoted reincarnation, and they had to write that bit out, as people tended to want to repent in the next life, rather than in the present life..
A slight oversight by the author's that had to be corrected... Around about the time that Islam was introduced funnily enough...

[denisegr]

Just ordered it £2.81 inc pp