New Luxor Medical Center

[Scottishtourist]

Whilst I take all views on board,fact is that rules are rules!
No matter what criteria,thresholds and guidelines are set...someone will always just fall outwith them,and as such may rightly or wrongly feel aggrieved and disadvantaged by it!
I do not feel my argument is muddled TT.Frontline staff have no say on who is admitted to hospitals,nor do we judge them on eligibility to be there.We treat them.End of story.
And to suggest that patients who come from countries with no reciprocal agreement receive a lesser standard of care is quite frankly an insult to ALL dedicated staff who work in NHS.
Ex-pats may or may not have paid taxes and NI in the past.That does not mean that they should regard these as some sort of insurance policy for their latter years!

[A-Four]

Sylhily, I am not being funny or difficult here when I write this but, for those who have THE KNOWLEDGE, your total statement is irrelevent. Its just that so many people believe such a statement is fact, which in truth is so, there are so many loop-holes in what you say, I get ****** off that its only the rich who know them, and are able to benefit.

[timetraveller]

I suggest you re-read my post ST. I did not suggest that people from countries without a reciprocal health care agreement with the UK receive a lesser standard of care once they are in a hospital bed. You've pulled that out of thin air. What I was referring to was your statement 'but yes.. why should people who live in a country with no reciprocal arrangement with the UK receive free health care?'. YOUR statement NOT mine. And in that I have no doubt you were referring to ex-pats living in Egypt part time. But I do understand what you are saying... you would treat them the same as any other patient (one would hope so or you should be sacked!), but believe they should be paying for their treatment. And as you say, you don't make the rules.However you do trumpet your support of them on here. And in doing so you can expect that there will be some dissent. As indeed there has been.

And why shouldn't people regard their NI contributions as some sort of Insurance for their health care in the future? After all, that was the principle on which the NHS was founded. As part of the Welfare State. 'Cradle to Grave' and all that. You put a little into the pot each week throughout your working life and have the security of knowing that care is there for you when you need it. Including when you have retired! That's how it was supposed to work wasn't it?

[Teddyboy]

"Current pensions and NHS costs are paid by today's taxpayers in the UK."

We're probably all aware of that, Sylhilly. So it means that our (former) taxes were used to pay for other old people's treatments, yes? But here we are now, being required to pay twice, if we are out of the country for more than three (arbitrary) months! Once for the previous generation, and again for our own.

A great many retired people are not fortunate enough to have a level of income where they would have to pay tax (UK residents or ex-pats) and are therefore in a similar position to each other. Those who choose to spend a lot of time in Egypt where their health (and quality of life) is improved just by the heat, would have much less reason to use the NHS. But those who stay in the UK continue to suffer from their aches and pains, and thereby require constant attention from their doctors and hospitals, while continuing to receive free prescriptions.

Neither pays substantially into the system any more, yet one group is penalised because they have made the choice to not be wholly dependent on the largess of the UK government and its poor benighted taxpayers, for every single aspect of their lives!

Regarding the taxes which old (pensioner) ex-pats don't pay (like VAT and fuel duty) by not actually being in the country very much, I should imagine that these are soon made up for by the extortion of the taxes which are added onto our regular flights in and out of the UK.

The case for the NHS providing treatment differently for retired non-taxpayers, depending on whether they have been in or out of the country, is completely indefensible, and surely demonstrates the immoral state of any government which allows such a disgrace to continue!

[hatusu]

"Ex-pats may or may not have paid taxes and NI in the past.That does not mean that they should regard these as some sort of insurance policy for their latter years!"

What do you think the I in "NI" stands for?

[Scottishtourist]

What do you think the N stands for Hatusu?

[FABlux]

The point that I don't understand in so many of the above posts is the claim to be still paying UK income tax; surely that only applies if you spend less than 183 days out of the country in any given year?? The only UK pensions that will be subject to UK income tax regardless of where you live are Government-funded occupational pensions - perhaps you're all ex-Civil Servants?

No all income earned in the UK, including private pensions, investment income etc are taxed even if you do not enter the country at all! Your ex employer [pension provider(s) etc] tax it at source. Your State Pension is offset against your tax allowance (the same as your salary was) & then the balance of allowance is offset against income & when that has gone you pay tax on the rest.

[Scottishtourist]

As far as I'm aware,the issue is not taxes or NI contributions.
The issue is proving "residence!"
Make your mind up time!
You cannot assume residence in UK if you live in Egypt.Rules and criteria apply in same way as it does for anyone who decides to live outwith UK and in country which has no reciprocal agreement.Like it or lump it...you are subject to those rules.

[A-Four]

No Scotishtourist, this is the whole point I am trying to make people on here understand, YOU are NOT subject to the rules if you know the loop-holes in the law, and the rich certaibly do, but as per usual the average people contine to fight the point amougst themselves.

[timetraveller]

And who do you think YOU are, calling us all 'average people?' Anyhow you might have had enough. You seem to have lost control of the keyboard!

[Scottishtourist]

I kinda see your point A-Four!
The average,working class people abide by the rules.They suffer for their morals and integrity!
However,to INTERPRET those rules requires a more astute mind,and for this information,people will pay.

[A-Four]

All I am trying to say here Scotishtourist, is as you put it' the average person, and especially those over 55 year do have morals, and throughout their life have worked hard in the so called 'Second Elizabethen Golden Age' with the PROMISE of a good retirement. That promise still stands for the rich, but as I say for the average person, he or she has to know the loop-holes in the law to trully be able to obtain that is trully theirs by right.

[Teddyboy]

We're all ears A_Four! Where are the loopholes?

[timetraveller]

And some of us who are actually younger than 55 have morals too! Why that seemingly arbitrary age?

[Maakari]

I can see the views on both sides of the fence on this subject. This health care reciprocation, health tourism, ex-pat restrictions, illegal immigrants issue is now a big part of my job. It did'nt used to be. I did my job, which is looking after the sick, regardless of race, colour creed, income, immigration status whatever, with the intent in which I entered the health service, which is care giving. All this rule making is not of the frontline staff, it has come from the "Clipboard men" those who would'nt know a sick or needy person if they bit 'em on the nose.
All I want to say is, Our National health used to be great, and if it were left to those who know the needs and day to day services needed to serve the Nation, it still would be!!!!!!!!!. Too many Bloody number crunchers now. Our hospital is basically in S#*t street, and now they have a "Consortium" going throught to cut wages of staff, because that is their biggest out lay!!!!! I don't know who they think works here but we do, a caring, loyal staff, who can not work for free!!!!!! There is talk that the whole hospital work roll will be sacked, and then ask to reapply for their jobs (at lower pay scale and longer hours). I t is being fought tooth and nail by our unions. I just wish, and it would never happen coz we care too much, that every single person would say, "OK, BUT WE WILL GO TODAY, AND NOT COME BACK, WHAT WILL YOU DO?"See what happens when the patients go hungry, miss operations, give birth on their own, are sleeping in filthy wards, no car parking, etc. And when they die....no mortuary workers. We are a whole, and we work as a whole, for the benefit of the NAtion.
Forget the money, much as bean crunchers want to make it a business, a hospital is just that, a caring facility.
As the doctors creed says "DO NO HARM"
So every one everywhere, remember what it was like in the good old days. I think the NHS will be obsolete, if something is'nt done and done soon.

I have said at work, Our hospital is in prime location over looking worlds 2nd biggest natural harbour, absolutely stunning locale, that this time next year, it will be a developement of stunning apartments with price tags of £2 million ++, and us health care workers will be working in ASDA!!!!
So wherever you live, whatever your health care status is, I hope you have a NHS to come and use!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Scottishtourist]

I applaud you Maakari!Bravo,bravo,bravo!
Tell it as it is!

[Chocolate Eclair]

So where are peoploe resident then? most of ex pats living in Luxor are on TOURIST VISA'S, which means you are not resident in Egypt, Most in fact all have British Passports. So if you are a Tourist in Luxor, and not a Resident, where are you a resident of? Surely if you are a Resident of Luxor you will hold a Residents Visa!

[A-Four]

Thanks Maakari for letting us into your knowledge of the NHS, these days things are a changing fast, and not for the good, as you clearly express here. That is why the average person, (I hate useing that term, but what I mean is a person who is told by an official what a rule is, when actually that person is paid to give dis-information.) has to fight these days to obtain the service that is their's by right.

I actually know this hospital, (up there on the hill) which has excellent standards, that are so because of such people as yourself.

[Teddyboy]

But what about the loopholes, A_Four?

[timetraveller]

Yes, and why do you think people over 55 are more moral A-Four? Does this mean that in a few years time, I will wake up on the morning of my 55th birthday as a more moral person than I am today? Or are you referring to something historical affecting people of that age which makes them more moral than anybody younger? Do tell.