Resurrection and Ascension

[Aromagician]

Hi all,
Havent been here for a while, must say it is all looking a bit different. Dazzling even. All sorts of bright colours. Keefy must have been busy.

Anyhow, I am reading The Light Of Egypt by Gerald Massey at the moment.
I must say I am fascinated with the fact that most religions seem to have many common themes. Some of these appear to be
1) A spear, that kills demons
2) A place where Heaven and Earth meet- which is symbolised by a ladder or a stairway- such as Jacobs Ladder, the stairs that Shu-Anhur ascends to the top, The Maori have a place where they use a vine- The maypole ( called the Axis Mundi)
3) A mount at the bottom, and a tree or Pole- ( asherim, date palm, etc
4) A mount or garden at the top, Gardens of Arru, Eden etc.

The seven stepped pyramid could then be a symbol of a place where the spirits ascend from death to the heavens .
Anyhow I digress.
Resurrection - Now there is the young Horus- 12 years old approx, and then according to Gerald Massey, there is the elder Horus approx 30 years old.
The 12 year old is symbolic of the "child" soul, or he who has learnt the first mysteries. He then becomes the second elder Horus/ or the MAN, once he has ascended, or mastered the higher mysteries.
I must say I am a bit confused about the elder and the younger Horus thing going on.
Some books say that it is also symbolic of Jesus, who also became a master once he turned 30.

When you read about the Christian resurrection, it states that people will be returned to their bodies( in some) and physically ascend to heaven. Yet I think another interpretation of it maybe that the fact that Jesus actually returned in his physical body, and then gave higher teachings then he had before he "died", shows that it was his spirit that had ascended, and yet returned to his body. So he was therefore a living master on earth.
Does this then mean that it points to the fact that all men can become one with God, or ascended spirits, whilst still in this life on this body.

This could also indicate, that the Egyptian rituals/ mystery teachings could be indicating the same thing. That the Kings and Queens, went through an Ascension ritual, or process, to unite their " spirits" with the higher divine forces, so that they then become the divine being present on earth. Which would explain their status as a "God". In a spiritual sense, taking responsibilty for the souls of their people, ensuring they all made it safely to the heavens - as is the role of God.
I know in other shamanic cultures, or native teachings the shaman, or chief, not only takes physical responsibility for this people he also takes spiritual responsibility.

I am still trying to sort out the Horus/ Osiris connection. Is it that Horus is resurrected as the Elder Horus upon reaching the stairs to the heavens out of the underworld? Or is it upon the death of the father Osiris, that Horus becomes the man?
Do you think Resurrection means you have to wait until death to become "one with God?" Or is it a state that can be attained in life.

[Aromagician]

Now I know some say that Horus the Elder was a completely different person to Horus the younger.
Yet others say that the symbol of the falcon head, is a sign that he had ascended, and became a Spirit, as often spirits are depicted as having the head of a bird. Or are depicted as a human head with the body of a bird.
This site has some in fo on Horus.
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/shades/egypt/horus.htm

Now if Horus the younger, is who comes looking for his inheritance, then it could be possible that Horus the Elder, is symbolic of he who has attained it. He has become master of or has combined knowledge of both the mysteries of heaven and earth, and therefore united "both lands" in a symbolic sense as well as a physical sense pertaining to both upper and lower egypt.
could also been seen as overcoming lower nature, to ascend to higher??

[Aromagician]

This video here, sees the Horus as seperate Gods, from different parents.
[youtube][/youtube]

[Aromagician]

Okay have found the part where gerald Massey talks about Horus as the messiah/ compares with Jesus and theResurrection
http://www.masseiana.org/aebk12.htm

In particular here he says
"This was about 11,000 years BC, or 13,000 years ago. During these eleven thousand years, by the changes in precession and the continual rectification of the calendar from old style to new, July 25th at starting had receded to December 25th in the end. That is, the birthday of the coming child Iusa or Horus in the Lion sign, celebrated on the 25th of July, came to be commemorated on the 25th of December at the end of this period, by those who kept the reckoning, and this, as will be shown, is precisely what did occur in the evolution of the Jesus-legend.

Two birthdays had been assigned to Horus of the double horizon, one to Child-Horus in the autumn, the other to Horus the adult in the vernal equinox. These were the two times or teriu of the year. But when the solstices were added to the equinoxes in the new creation of [p.739] the four quarters established by Ptah for his son Atum-Ra, there was a further change. The place of birth for the elder, the mortal Horus who was born child of the Virgin Mother, now occurred in the winter solstice and the place of rebirth for Horus the eternal Son was celebrated in the vernal equinox, with three months between the two positions instead of six. If the birth occurred at Christmas with the winter solstice in the sign of the Archer, the resurrection at Easter would occur in the sign of the fishes as at present. The equinoxes, of course, remained upon the double horizon, whereas the winter solstice took place in the depths of Amenta, and this became the place of rebirth, for the Child-Horus as Iu-sa, the coming son in the astronomical mythology. Horus in the autumnal equinox was now succeeded by Horus who suffered in the winter solstice. The Jews still celebrate their mysteries annually as mysteries. And it is instructive to note that with them the two times remain equinoctial, and have never been changed to the winter solstice and Easter equinox. The Jews have subterranean reasons for not accepting the Messiah born at Christmas. Theirs are the mysteries of the double horizon; or of Ra-Harmachis. The double birth of Horus at the two times, or the birth of the babe in the winter solstice and the rebirth as the adult in the Easter equinox is acknowledged in the Egyptian Book of the Divine Birth. The celebration of the nativity at the solstice is referred to in the calendar of Edfu, and it is said that 'everything is performed which is ordained' in the Book of the Divine Birth. Also, it was commanded in the calendar of Esné that the precepts of the Book on the Second Divine Birth of the child Kahi 'were to be performed on the first of the month Epiphi.'[27] The child Kahi is a pseudonym for the Child-Horus. He is the revealer, the logos or word, and the 'Revelation of Kahi' is associated with New Year's day, when this occurred on the 26th of the month Payni. Now the first and second 'divine births' (or the birth and rebirth) of Horus were celebrated at the festivals of the winter solstice and the Easter equinox. and these are the two times of the two Horuses identified by Plutarch[28], the first as manifestor for Isis, the Virgin Mother, the second as Horus, the Son of God the Father, when he tells us that 'Harpocrates (Har the khart, or child) is born about the winter solstice, immature and infant-like in the plants that flower and spring up early, for which reason they offer to him the first-fruits of growing lentils; and they celebrate her (Isis) being brought to bed after the vernal equinox.'[29] Here are the three months between the two birthdays which were celebrated at the two festivals now known as Christmas and Easter. Two different birthdays were likewise assigned to the Greek Apollo. One of these was commemorated by the Delians at the time of the winter solstice; the other by the Delphians in the vernal equinox.

According to the Decree of Canopus[30] the date of Osiris' entry into the moon at the annual resurrection had then receded to the 20th of Choiak, equivalent to December 26th, of the Alexandrian year, which was established in the reign of Augustus, BC 25. 'The entry of Osiris into the sacred bark takes place here annually at the [p.740] defined time on the 29th day of the month Choiak.'[31] In this way the Christmas festival, by which the 'Birth of Christ' is now celebrated, can be identified with the yearly celebration of the rebirth of Osiris (or Horus) in the moon. Moreover, we can thus trace it, following the course of precession, from the 17th of Athor (October 5th in the sacred year); November 14th in the Alexandrian year, mentioned by Plutarch[32], to the 20th of Choiak, our December 26th. The next day, December 27th, was the first of Tybi, and this was the day on which the Child-Horus was crowned, and the festival of his coronation celebrated. If we reckon the 25th of December (28th Choiak) to be the day of birth, the day of resurrection and of the crowning in Amenta is on the third day. In the month-list of the Ramesseum, Tybi is the month dedicated to Amsu, the Horus who arose from the dead in Amenta, and who was crowned as conqueror on the third day—that is, on December 27th = Tybi 1st. There are several symbols of this resurrection on the third day. First, Osiris rises on that day in the new moon. Next, Amsu figures as the sahu-mummy risen to his feet, with right arm free, as ruler in Amenta, the earth of eternity. Thirdly, Horus the child is crowned in the seat of Osiris for another year. Fourthly, the tat was erected as a figure of the god re-risen, and a type of eternal stability in the depths of the winter solstice. Thus the resurrection on the third day was in Amenta and not upon this earth.

The Egyptians celebrated their festival of the resurrection every year, called the feast of Ptah-Sekari-Osiris, in the month Choiak (November 27th December 26th, Alexandrian year). The rite is otherwise known as 'the erection of the tat-pillar.' Erman recovered a description of the festival from a Theban tomb. Of this he says: 'The special festival was of all the greater importance because it was solemnized on the morning of the royal jubilee. The festivities began with a sacrifice offered by the king to Osiris, the "Lord of Eternity," a mummied figure, wearing the Tat-pillar on his head.'[33] It lasted for ten days, from the 20th to the 30th of the month Choiak, the 26th being the great day of feasting. The royal endowment of the temple at Medinet Habu for the sixth day of the festival included 3,694 loaves of bread, 600 cakes, 905 jugs of beer and 33 jars of wine. This was the great day of eating and drinking, corresponding to our Christmas gorging and guzzling, but on the 22nd December, instead of the 25th, of a somewhat later period. The festival was devoted to the god Osiris-Ptah-Sekari, who had been dead and was alive again; cut in pieces and reconstituted with his vertebras sound and not a bone of his body found to be broken or missing. The festival of the sixth day is clearly the Ha-k-er-a feast that was celebrated on the sixth night of the Ten Mysteries. Moreover, the ten days of the festival that was sacred to the god Osiris-Sekari are also in agreement with the ten nights of the mysteries[34]. In the scene copied from the Theban tomb the 'Noble Pillar' of the tat-cross is to be seen lying pronely on the ground where it had been overthrown by Sut and the sebau. The object of the festival was to celebrate the re-erection of the tat and turn the cross of death once more into the cross of life as the symbol of resurrection. The king, as representative of Horus who reconstitutes [p.741] his father, with the aid of the royal relatives and a priest, pulls the pillar upright. Four priests bring in the usual table of offerings and place them in front of the tat. So far, says Erman, we can understand the festival[35]. But the further ceremonies refer to mythological events unknown to us. Four priests with their fists raised rush upon four others, who appear to give way; two more strike each other, and one standing by says of them, 'I seize Horus shining in truth.' Then follows a great flogging scene, in which fifteen persons beat each other mercilessly with their sticks and fists; they are divided into several groups, two of which, according to the inscription, represent the people of the town Pa and of the town Tepu. This is evidently the representation of a great mythological fight, in which were engaged the inhabitants of Pa and Tepu, i.e., of the ancient city of Buto, in the north of the delta. 'The ceremonies which close the sacred rite are also quite problematic; four herds of oxen and asses are seen driven by their herdsmen, and we are told in the accompanying text four times they circle round the walls on that day when the noble Tat-pillar is re-erected.'[36]

Raising the tat-pillar was typical of Horus in his second advent raising the dead Osiris from his sepulchre and calling the mummy to come forth alive. The gods in Tattu on the night of the resurrection, symbolized by this re-erection of the tat, are Osiris, Isis, Nephthys, and Horus the avenger of his father. Thus in re-erecting the tat, Amenhetep III with his queen Ti and one of the royal princesses were personating Horus the avenger and the two divine sisters in the resurrection of Osiris[37].

The Christians celebrate the birth of the divine babe at Christmas and the death and resurrection at Easter; whereas the birth and death were commemorated at the same season in the Egyptian mysteries of Ptah, and later of Osiris—as it was in the beginning, when the death was that of the old year and the rebirth that of the new year; otherwise, the death of Osiris and the birth of Horus, or the death of Atum and the rebirth of Iusa. The new year came to be reckoned from the shortest day when the sun had reached its lowest point and the shadow of darkness or the dragon its utmost length. The sufferings of the sun-god were naturally accredited to him at that time, and the death and resurrection in Amenta were both timed to the solstice. The sun was lord of light as ruler of the lesser year. The Apap-monster was the reptile power of darkness, and of desert drought. This dreaded adversary of the sun was now the uppermost, Osiris in Amenta was the victim in the winter solstice. The suffering and death of Osiris were the cause of the long period of mourning, of fasting and supplication that was memorized in the mysteries. In the winter solstice the birth took place below, in Amenta, the earth of Sut, and habitat of the Apap-reptile. In the equinox at Easter, Horus the fulfiller was transformed from the human child to the divine hawk-headed Horus, who rose from the underworld as the spirit of life and light and food, and who was then re-fleshed or reincorporated anew on earth, conceived of the Virgin, incarnated in her blood once more, to be brought forth in human shape again at Christmas; and by the gestator [p.742] in the divine form, as Horus of the resurrection now reborn at Easter.

The last night of the old year (July 24th), 'the night of the child in the cradle,' had been named from the new birth as the mesiu; also the evening meal of the next day, the first of the new year, was called the 'Mesiu.' These were the exact equivalent of our Christmas Eve and Christmas Day on December 24th and 25th, after a lapse of 11,000 years in time according to the movement in precession. The sacred old Egyptian year, which opened on the first of Tekki (or Thoth) as the year of the great Bear and the inundation, began upon the 25th of July in the year of 365 days. Therefore July 24th was the last night of the old year and the 25th (or the 20th in the year of 360 days) was New Year's Day, the birthday of Horus the child, or fish of the inundation. Time was sacredly kept by means of the festivals, and these were re-dated age after age from old style to new. The Decree of Canopus is both explicit and emphatic on the necessity of correctly readjusting the calendar to the lapse of time, whether in the Sothiac cycle or the movement in precession so that 'the case shall not occur that the Egyptian festivals by which time was kept—now celebrated in winter—should be celebrated some time or other in summer, as has occasionally occurred' in times past, in consequence of the calendar being incorrectly kept[38].

[LivinginLuxor]

Definitely something to think about! Not sure whether the earliest Christians celebrated Christmas on December 25th though - I thought it was grafted onto on earlier pagan festival, similar to Easter appearing to be grafted on the festival of Eostr from where it got its name.

[Bullet Magnet]

Excellent article Aromagician

It was Gerald Massey that put my brain into action many years ago. Another genius who after visiting Egypt got even smarter, as they all seemed to do back in those days.

You will see many similarities between Horus and Jesus, the Abydos triad etc... Same with Mithra and all the other "messiah's " born on the 25th December, the day when God's "Sun" (son) after being dead on the (southern cross) for three days and then is resurrected.
The entire story is played out in the stars, and the movement of the Sun..
It's worth noting that the Romans were pagan's, then converted the Pagan story into Christianity..

The world is just a playground, then it's wiped clean and then we start again. .
A thousand years from now, and we "humans" will become the "spirit guides" for the next participants of the game of life on planet Earth.. Our time is nearly up in the bigger picture of things...Slowly, slowly... Nothing at all to worry about though..

Funny old world...

[Aromagician]

Hm not sure why I didnt receive the notification, must check my spam bin.

Well the question is, did Christianity and the other religions actually copy the previous, or is it that many of the early religions follow a similar pattern, one that is linked to the seasons, the stars, and particular natural events throughout the year?

According to masseys theory this would indicate a "messiah" type figure or new myth is born very approx 2500 years.

But more importantly is Horus the Elder, the transformed Horus the younger?
He is no longer the youth wanting his inheritance, he is now the wise Uncle, who is trying to help and give his knowledge to the younger one that comes after him?

[Aromagician]

- I thought it was grafted onto on earlier pagan festival, similar to Easter appearing to be grafted on the festival of Eostr from where it got its name.

I have also been looking at Easter,and apparently Ishtar, can be pronounced Easter. In his book "The Two Babylons", Alexander Hislop wrote "Easter is nothing else than Ashtarte the Queen of the Heavens, whose name is Ishtar".

Now if Ishtar is the goddess of Rejuvenation, and is symbolised by a Star. And with Venus- the morning star/ or dawn star . Isnt that in the East?

The symbol that denotes the birth of the Son of God " Christ" is the star. East Star?
or ISH Star?

I see here on Wikipedia it is associated with the goddess of the dawn worship also
" As the Germanic languages descend from Proto-Indo-European (PIE), linguists have connected the name with the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European goddess of the dawn *H₂ewsṓs (→ *Ausṓs). Some scholars have debated whether or not Eostre is an invention of Bede's, and theories connecting Eostre with records of Germanic Easter customs (including hares and eggs) have been proposed. Eostre and Ostara are sometimes referenced in modern popular culture, and venerated in some forms of Germanic Neopaganism."

[Aromagician]

Excellent article Aromagician

The world is just a playground, then it's wiped clean and then we start again. .
A thousand years from now, and we "humans" will become the "spirit guides" for the next participants of the game of life on planet Earth.. Our time is nearly up in the bigger picture of things...Slowly, slowly... Nothing at all to worry about though..

Funny old world...

I thought it was promised that they wouldnt be wiped clean, like the previous floods?
I agree it seems to be some kind of cyclical pattern being described, which probably coincides with many prophecies. Does make one wonder what all the fighting and converting of others is about, when the basics seem to be the same?

[Bullet Magnet]

An Age is approximately every 2500 years, in each "Age" we seem to get a new religion, so we are told.
Recently, We had the Age of Aries, "Old Testament" then Pisces, "New Testament"

Aquarius is the next age, but odd dont you think that Aquarius symbol is pouring water onto the earth ?
Jesus also mentioned Aquarius in the bible. When he was asked where to prepare for the feast of the passover, jesus said. “Behold, when you have entered the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him into the house that he enters.
I interprit that as. " A new religion is coming, and you will follow it" !!

We have much evidence of advanced civilizations living on earth before we did, so what is going on ? why are human's so relatively dumb in comparison to our ancient ancestors. ?
I firmly believe that the Atlantians some how messed up and destroyed the world, and caused the great flood.
Of course, there were survivor's, survivors who knew a lot..
As for Water, Mair, Dwr, Acqua, Eau, Wasser, whatever you want to call it, we do not give it the credit it deserves...
Maybe the Age of Aquarius will teach humans that particular lesson..
Incidently in Indonesian, the name for water is Air...

I repeatedly asked this question to creation.. "who am I" ???
in a form of a well constructed prayer...
After about 7 months, The way the answer came ( in three parts inside of 21 hours ) and the answer I got was rather surprising !

I think we need to focus upon who we really are and why we are here... discover a new way of learning from this world.
What we are taught, and what we learn usually presents us with a paradox, question is, Who do YOU trust ?

[Aromagician]

Grr my post didnt go through.

I will start again.
I see water as consciousness. Which is why when people die, or travel through the underworld they do so through a boat or a "vessel:.
It is this flow of consciousness that then takes them to the next state, or the kingdom of heavens. Having first to fight all the obstacles that they have within their own.

The symbol of the fish or Pisces- is swimming in divine or celestial consciousness per se.
So what is the water bearer? He ( or she) is pouring water to the earth from the heavens, from a container, or vessel.

Are we now creating our reality, rather than swimming in creation?
Or is it a symbol of more divine consciousness coming to the earth from heaven, or other celestial origins denoted by the skies or the stars.

I dont know that I agree with the question Who do you trust?
I think the answer to that which seems appropriate in other realities, or non ordinary realities is always your Self.

[Bullet Magnet]

That's a wonderful post Aromagician

I made the analargy of water representing the flow of consciousness many years ago to myself.

One night, I realised it was true, consciousness manifests as water in our reality, but has MANY unusual unseen abilities.

Water is unique, it can exist in all three states, Solid, Liquid and Gas. It is the only liquid to expand when it freezes, and
it is the most corrosive substance known to man. Without water, there is no life..
Water is far more than just H2O

I often wonder how the water got to this planet, it's existed elswhere, on Mars for example. ( Not one of my more popular theories I hasten to add.. )

All sounds a bit like the red weed from Mars, in H.G. Wells' "War of the World's", only in a reversed role, being the bringer of life, rather than somethering the life on Earth.
The red weed, only existed in one state though.

Lots to think about.. ?

[Aromagician]

True, and our bodies consist mainly of water. Water holds the vibration of anything that has been in it. There has been some wonderful research on that, and of course we have homeopathy which uses that principal.

I am just wondering of the vessel, is a symbol of the feminine, as often vessels or cups are symbolic of the female, she can also be shown metaphorically as a ship/ vessel -as females are the carriers of life within them.

Am off out, but will look up more on this.

[Bullet Magnet]

I am just wondering of the vessel, is a symbol of the feminine, as often vessels or cups are symbolic of the female, she can also be shown metaphorically as a ship/ vessel -as females are the carriers of life within them.

I like that analargy as well.

Also consider Bird Headed "gods" in a "celestial ship" taking one's soul UPWARD to "heaven"..
(if you are lucky)

I have a film about research on Water here....
http://www.alderclose.com/water.flv

Up to date Versions of Windows, MAC OS and Linux will play this, if not go here to get the player...
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html


Most of the more Esoteric experiences I have had, have usually been in or close to water,
I am lucky to live by one of the most sacred rivers in Wales, and very close to THE most sacred river in Wales, being the Alun and Dee respectively.

I always say Thank You to my water before I drink it. It tastes so much better that way

[Aromagician]

I am off to work so will try and look at the video later.
Have you seen the work of Dr Emoto on water?
http://www.watercrystalstudy.com/?page_id=8

And of course in all temple complexes there is a sacred lake, as there is in the gardens of Arru.
The renewing of life, or restoration of divine protection by bathing in water is a recurring theme in many religions ( such as baptism in Christianity)

[LivinginLuxor]

You might be interested in this:-


To Live Forever: A Journey Through The Egyptian Amduat

By Dr. Lisa Swart

Abstract: The ancient Egyptian Amduat is the oldest of several funerary texts depicted on the walls of the pharaohs’ tombs in the Valley of the Kings during the New Kingdom. The Amduat was one of the first completely illustrated texts that defined what the Egyptian underworld was imagined to look like, and depicted the nightly journey of the sun god, Re through the twelve hours of the underworld. Through looking at the Amduat in the tomb of Pharaoh Tuthmosis III, this article takes the reader along on the journey through the Egyptian underworld.

The full article is in the free download of Ancient Planet magazine.

http://ancientplanet.blogspot.com/

[Bullet Magnet]

am off to work so will try and look at the video later.
Have you seen the work of Dr Emoto on water?

Some of his work is included in the Video I posted


This always seemed odd to me that they head off into the underworld, while "heaven" is supposed to be in the Sky, or at least in an upward direction...
Shamen head out "into" the World, and their travels begin through the power of thought at a hole in the ground, or through a waterfall, it all seems to be personal preference with them.
They enter a state of a different consiousness to do this, through repatative drumming, but apparently, they can also do this at will and quite rapidly as they become more effective at travelling inside the earth where whole new world's exist. .
They can also alter their state of consiousness very quickly and see through the illusion of this world.
The stories are quite amazing, there are many books on the subject..

So, back to "reality" if that is what it is. Our bodies' senses all receive Vibration. light, sound, smell, taste and touch are all a vibration, or frequency..

If atoms are 90% space, then "matter" cannot exist in a solid state...

If I head off to Youtube, and key in Water Vibration, there are some great results. This one is quite good.
[youtube][/youtube]

now watch a glass change form.. Impossible ???
[youtube][/youtube]
All that was done here, was to tap the glass to get a sound from it, then play it's own sound back at it, but slightly louder...


Quote Max Planck:
There is no matter as such.
All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together.
We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind.
This mind is the matrix of all matter.


So, WHO control's this "Matrix" of matter, as we live our lives moment from moment, in a moment in time that we are given. In the illusion of time and space... ?

[LivinginLuxor]

Not WHO, but WHAT! I think it is called the laws of physics. Why do we need to anthropomorphise the universe?

[Aromagician]

You might be interested in this:-


To Live Forever: A Journey Through The Egyptian Amduat

By Dr. Lisa Swart

Abstract: The ancient Egyptian Amduat is the oldest of several funerary texts depicted on the walls of the pharaohs’ tombs in the Valley of the Kings during the New Kingdom. The Amduat was one of the first completely illustrated texts that defined what the Egyptian underworld was imagined to look like, and depicted the nightly journey of the sun god, Re through the twelve hours of the underworld. Through looking at the Amduat in the tomb of Pharaoh Tuthmosis III, this article takes the reader along on the journey through the Egyptian underworld.

The full article is in the free download of Ancient Planet magazine.

http://ancientplanet.blogspot.com/

Excellent, I have downloaded it, and will have a look. I must say I am trying to sort how all the different gods fit in and their role.
In thinking about the four sons of Horus from the Blue Lotus, I wonder if it relates to a ritual use of the plant, that the incoming had to undergo before assuming power.

As to the young horus, with his finger in his mouth? What is that about? He is the opener of the mouth? So it is he that opens the dead kings mouth, allowing him to remember who he is, an to become one with Osiris.Is that right?
I think it would be great if there was a digital/ animated version of the journey, so we could see what actually goes on! As can be very confusing. And then there is the benben stone and the Benu bird.

[Aromagician]

This always seemed odd to me that they head off into the underworld, while "heaven" is supposed to be in the Sky, or at least in an upward direction...
Shamen head out "into" the World, and their travels begin through the power of thought at a hole in the ground, or through a waterfall, it all seems to be personal preference with them.
They enter a state of a different consiousness to do this, through repatative drumming, but apparently, they can also do this at will and quite rapidly as they become more effective at travelling inside the earth where whole new world's exist. .
They can also alter their state of consiousness very quickly and see through the illusion of this world.
[/quote]

I am praticed in Shamanic journeying. I have a good friend who is a practicing shamanic healer, and taught me many years ago how to journey with the drumming.
There are three worlds usually accessed. The underworld where one meets ones power animals, and also may find parts of themselves that have been lost- where one finds ones power.
The middle world, where one can go to resolve issues with the living.
The upper world, where one goes to talk to the teachers or spirit guides.

The lower world, seems to be a representation of what is happening on earth. As it is after all within the earth. As most people were buried in the earth, it would seem that was why they had to make their journey through it to get to the heavens, or the ladder where heaven and earth combine. (The Native American Kivas are dug in the earth with ladders reaching up to the sky.)
I also see the lower world as being a place of the unconscious mind. A part that so often affects how we behave, yet without access to it many people cannot change how they "are".

That is a bit of a basic description. A shamanic journey is like 4D, when you go in there you see and receive information usually in metaphorical images and interactions which can show you in a profound way the many layers to a situation personal and global in one image, that goes deep into your self.
When you return, and then afterwards as you return to everyday life, it seems so small, so one dimensional. Like going from being in a palace back to a hut.

Which is why I suppose, I try to see what the images in the Book of the dead are symbolic of in a :"shamanic sense". As Horus is the King who is taking over from the dead Osiris. So is the Book of the dead, actually showing what the incoming Horus ( King) saw in his Kingly initiation ( perhaps using the Blue Lotus?). As isnt the ceremony a kind if passing of the Horus divinity from one king to the other?

And the osirian role from the last dead King to the next? Like passing on ancestral knowledge or DNA. The Maori people believe the ancestors are always with you. That time is not linear. So as such we are also always with our descendents. What we do affects both our ancestors and our descendents in a spiritual sense, at the same time.

I must admit to being taken with Jungian theories and those of Joseph Campbell. That the Gods are also present within us, symbolising certain parts of our consciousness, that when combined as one becomes the omnisicient.

I am very fond of the Shamanic view of the Great Spirit, or even the Indian view that Brahman is everywhere. In every leaf, every stick, every piece of dirt. Every person. Rather than as many separate Gods.
But by following the Gods, we can perhaps learn something about our selves on our way. Like putting together a jigsaw, first you have to find all the pieces then put them together, to see the whole picture, in which all the pieces are present, yet are one whole.