Luxor4u

In today's Guardian there is an interesting article about how out of body experiences can be artificially induced.

Body swap research shows that self is a trick of the mind - http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/ ... in-science

Interesting, just goes to show that they know more about the oceans than the brain..
The big man at the time of my experiments on obe was Sylvan Mulldoon, I think...

I dont see how that proves that the "self" is a trick of the mind at all Stan.
For one thing when a person is on an operating table out of consciousness, and sees everything around them, they are not looking at a camera are they?

The comparison is valid, in that when a person sees a view from a different perspective they feel like a person having an OBE does. looking at the world, but not part of it.

That is an ongoing experiment - some ORs are putting things that can only be seen from above - like on top of the lights. That would prove that the experience was real, or a hallicination caused by the anaesthetised mind.

If you have read any of the reports on eyewitness evidence, you will se what a waste of time little details like that are.

I can just see it
" oh, so you say you had an out of body experience. Well, did you see the green light I put above the operating table then?

"Um , sorry , I didnt look , I dont recall."
"well you cant have had one then"

I dont really think that people would give a toss what the doctors thought or didnt think about their experience.

When you have been somewhere, did you notice everything that was in the room at the time?
Like those shows where contestants have to memorise lists and the like, it just isnt possible to notice everything. The shock of being out of the body, is the most thing, and the feeling they had. Which is not mentioned at all in these experiences, other than the disorientation, which people have when their perception of reality is tricked. Like a magician does.

like Mulder, I want to believe, but only on evidence. Statements of personal experience under anaesthetic are not reliable and could be a dream. But if a patient described the music playing, or seeing a big X on top of the lights, without prompting, that would be proof. So, one needs to devise experiments to see if the experience is real or not. Remember, only a tiny minority of the millions of people going under anaesthetic worldwide in a day make such reports, which suggests more about their psychology than an actual event.

Do you really want to beleive Stan

Perhaps you could get a big red marker and write your phone number on their forehead, so they could ring you when they wake up

Dont mean to be cheeky, but am a bit tired of the tyre kicking of beleifs. Lets test it to see if there is anything inside that keeps it up.

Anyone is free to believe anything they want to believe. For instance, it was accepted belief that the sun revolved around the earth, until observation and experimentation proved otherwise.

OBEs are interesting phenomena and should be investigated, surely. And if they prove to be self-generated. surely that shows just what a wonderful structure the human brain is!

some more references:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6960612.stm

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/03/healt ... 3shad.html

Actually what is shown in those experiments are not out of body experiences but rather illusions tricking the mind. Much like a House of Mirrors. When you read of actual out of body experiences where the person can travel great distances, it is completely different.