Luxor4u

Scottishtourist wrote:

newcastle wrote:If you're still reading this thread ST...please understand that my comments are not in any way directed against whatever religious beliefs you might hold.

Rather - I was taking issue with the presumption that we as humans are in some way better at looking after our offspring than other animals.

This is demonstrably untrue.

An excellent book on evolutionary biology (if your mind is open to the concept of evolution) is "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Prof. Richard Dawkins.

I don't think for one minute that you were intending to offend me newcastle..so no offence has been taken!

Reckon though that the book you're recommending would be too "long winded"for me.
I personally prefer Terry Pratchett's fantasy world...and "Witches Abroad"is my idea of a good read.

In this life I'm too busy "doing"things..rather than thinking about things,lol!!
I fear my little brain would go into meltdown if I started questioning the theory of evolution,world population crisis,animal vs human,etc,etc.
It's all too much for me to compehend!

Maybe when I'm a decrepit old woman(will probably come sooner rather than later)I'll have time to ponder and question all these issues.
But for the moment...I'm relatively happy in the belief that "que sera sera"..and that there is a higher power somewhere guiding me "towards the light"lol!!

Well I can't object to your admiration for Terry Pratchett .....an excellent writer....an accomplished naturalist....and an atheist to boot. Very much like my hero Richard Dawkins

One of my ex girl friends was the top PR for Transworld, Sally she handled Andy McNab, Pratchett, Bill Bryson, Bruce, Ben Elton, Danielle Steel, Jilly Cooper, Sophie Kinsella, Joanna Trollope, Monica Ali and Status Quo and more.
She was very level headed and could handle just about everything demanded of her even stopping Terry Pratchett batter a kid at a book signing, not really a nice guy but through her I met them and partied having some great fun, some are still good friends. her biggest mistake was to let slip and tell me that that Adam Faith once put her to the 'sword…..

I often sung this to her as a windup...
Ps: Andy's 4th wife was the ex-wife of Transworld's CEO! "alot of populus qui non sciunt"

'In the end overcoming life's challenges, whether finding enough to eat or outwitting your predators, is only significant if life's final challenge can be met. Individual animals strive to reach this one ultimate goal to pass on their genes and ensure the survival of the next generation. Ultimately in nature that is what life is all about.'

David Attenborough

I never wanted any challenges, least of all the final one. It is always assumed that we want or need challenges.

Do I resent being born Dusak? You bet I do!

I never asked to be born, either. I was forced out of a womb, against my will, and made to suffer just because someone wanted a baby.
And I'm considered the selfish one, because I chose not to propagate my species on an already overpopulated planet....work it out yourself.

jewel wrote:
'In the end overcoming life's challenges, whether finding enough to eat or outwitting your predators, is only significant if life's final challenge can be met. Individual animals strive to reach this one ultimate goal to pass on their genes and ensure the survival of the next generation. Ultimately in nature that is what life is all about.'

David Attenborough

I never wanted any challenges, least of all the final one. It is always assumed that we want or need challenges.

How extraordinary

What motivates you to get out of bed each day

jewel wrote:Do I resent being born Dusak? You bet I do!

I never asked to be born, either. I was forced out of a womb, against my will, and made to suffer just because someone wanted a baby.
And I'm considered the selfish one, because I chose not to propagate my species on an already overpopulated planet....work it out yourself.

First of all I'm not being nasty when I say this as I truly respect your opinion, but you must lead a very sad life. I do not think that you would have had an understanding of anything at birth, that comes with time. If you are so disenchanted with a life that you hate so much, then why not put and end to what I can only see as existing a life of daily misery. Why do you carry on, for what reason?

As a human being you must of had some very memorable times in your life, experienced happiness, love, companionship, adventure, good times as well as bad. Why someone would want to have missed this is beyond my understanding.

I thoroughly enjoy my life, a privilege to experience. I look forwards to the next day to see what it brings, weather the usual usual or something a little more stimulating. Having read what you have written, I can not help but think of all those that have senselessly and far too early, lost their chance at taking part in the grand game, life.

jewel wrote:Do I resent being born Dusak? You bet I do!

I never asked to be born, either. I was forced out of a womb, against my will, and made to suffer just because someone wanted a baby.
And I'm considered the selfish one, because I chose not to propagate my species on an already overpopulated planet....work it out yourself.

And yet you have a daughter! Of course, I may be wrongly assuming that you and your husband/partner chose to have a child together and bring a new human life into this world. I realise it may be the case that you have adopted your daughter, and if that is the case I apologise for my assumption, but that has never been the impression I have had on the rare occasions you have mentioned her.

Dusak I am certain you are a true Pollyanna and " rise above it" to coin just one of the many Pollyanna phrases, however I am not, and am aware that all the happiness and good times in life do not outweigh the bad, and in the end death comes to all. I am a believer in assisted dying, and would happily end it all if I had the means, and the certaintity that it would be as swift and painless as possible, but sadly that is very often not the case, and I couldn't imagine a situation worse than a failed suicide.
I am an advocate of Nembutal being available to those who wish to have it.

I could recommend the book " Better never to have been" by David Benatar



“Each one of us was harmed by being brought into existence. That harm is not negligible, because the quality of even the best lives is very bad—and considerably worse than most people recognize it to be. Although it is obviously too late to prevent our own existence, it is not too late to prevent the existence of future possible people.”

“Finally, the optimist’s impatience with or condemnation of pessimism often has a smug macho tone to it (although males have no monopoly of it). There is a scorn for the perceived weakness of the pessimist who should instead ‘grin and bear it’. This view is defective for the same reason that macho views about other kinds of suffering are defective. It is an indifference to or inappropriate denial of suffering, whether one’s own or that of others. The injunction to ‘look on the bright side’ should be greeted with a large dose of both scepticism and cynicism. To insist that the bright side is always the right side is to put ideology before the evidence. Every cloud, to change metaphors, may have a silver lining, but it may very often be the cloud rather than the lining on which one should focus if one is to avoid being drenched by self-deception. Cheery optimists have a much less realistic view of themselves than do those who are depressed.”

jewel wrote:Dusak I am certain you are a true Pollyanna and " rise above it" to coin just one of the many Pollyanna phrases, however I am not, and am aware that all the happiness and good times in life do not outweigh the bad, and in the end death comes to all. I am a believer in assisted dying, and would happily end it all if I had the means, and the certaintity that it would be as swift and painless as possible, but sadly that is very often not the case, and I couldn't imagine a situation worse than a failed suicide.
I am an advocate of Nembutal being available to those who wish to have it.

I could recommend the book " Better never to have been" by David Benatar



“Each one of us was harmed by being brought into existence. That harm is not negligible, because the quality of even the best lives is very bad—and considerably worse than most people recognize it to be. Although it is obviously too late to prevent our own existence, it is not too late to prevent the existence of future possible people.”

“Finally, the optimist’s impatience with or condemnation of pessimism often has a smug macho tone to it (although males have no monopoly of it). There is a scorn for the perceived weakness of the pessimist who should instead ‘grin and bear it’. This view is defective for the same reason that macho views about other kinds of suffering are defective. It is an indifference to or inappropriate denial of suffering, whether one’s own or that of others. The injunction to ‘look on the bright side’ should be greeted with a large dose of both scepticism and cynicism. To insist that the bright side is always the right side is to put ideology before the evidence. Every cloud, to change metaphors, may have a silver lining, but it may very often be the cloud rather than the lining on which one should focus if one is to avoid being drenched by self-deception. Cheery optimists have a much less realistic view of themselves than do those who are depressed.”

So, how is your career in the world of motivational coaching going?

I like Hepzibah thought you had in the past Jewel said that you had at least one child, has it/they been such a terrible disappointment to you?
I think you sound seriously depressed, try to look at life more positively there are a lot of wonderful things out there.You may be fed up that you can't convince the rest of the world of your beliefs, fighting a losing battle but accept defeat gracefully and try to see others points of view, it might just might cheer you up a little.
Life is what you make it and I am a glass half full kind of person. I am glad to see you posting regularly again though you certainly bring something extra to the site. Thank you for that.

I don't remember Jewel ever saying she had a daughter, but I could have missed something.

Who2 wrote:Sally she handled Andy McNab, Pratchett, Bill Bryson, Bruce, Ben Elton, Danielle Steel, Jilly Cooper, Sophie Kinsella, Joanna Trollope, Monica Ali and Status Quo and more.

So she flew both ways! If I had handled any of that disparate group I would have been prosecuted, but Sally obviously got away with expressing her feelings!

jewel wrote:Dusak I am certain you are a true Pollyanna and " rise above it" to coin just one of the many Pollyanna phrases, however I am not, and am aware that all the happiness and good times in life do not outweigh the bad, and in the end death comes to all. I am a believer in assisted dying, and would happily end it all if I had the means, and the certaintity that it would be as swift and painless as possible, but sadly that is very often not the case, and I couldn't imagine a situation worse than a failed suicide.
I am an advocate of Nembutal being available to those who wish to have it.

I could recommend the book " Better never to have been" by David Benatar



“Each one of us was harmed by being brought into existence. That harm is not negligible, because the quality of even the best lives is very bad—and considerably worse than most people recognize it to be. Although it is obviously too late to prevent our own existence, it is not too late to prevent the existence of future possible people.”

“Finally, the optimist’s impatience with or condemnation of pessimism often has a smug macho tone to it (although males have no monopoly of it). There is a scorn for the perceived weakness of the pessimist who should instead ‘grin and bear it’. This view is defective for the same reason that macho views about other kinds of suffering are defective. It is an indifference to or inappropriate denial of suffering, whether one’s own or that of others. The injunction to ‘look on the bright side’ should be greeted with a large dose of both scepticism and cynicism. To insist that the bright side is always the right side is to put ideology before the evidence. Every cloud, to change metaphors, may have a silver lining, but it may very often be the cloud rather than the lining on which one should focus if one is to avoid being drenched by self-deception. Cheery optimists have a much less realistic view of themselves than do those who are depressed.”

Jewel, I may most of the time give the impression of being a happy go lucky ''Pollyanna'', but believe me, I have experienced periods in my life that I have slummed into the chair, head in hands and wondered if it was all worth it. Not in a fit of depression, but with a deep sense of loss and betrayal, people that you thought you could depend on let you down very badly, desert you in your time of need faster than rats on a sinking ship. I have been through a period in my life that most would of considered ending it all, just to receive release from a most horrendous time when you firmly believed that no one on the planet believed your version of events. But I persevered and finally got the result I rightly deserved. Time is a great healer, and coming to this country was the healing tonic that I required.

Whatever life a person leads, is fully dependent on their own choices, not to the fact that they had been born. Some could of literally had the life beaten out of them in years past, to weak of constitution to recover so carry the pain and hatred tightly sealed within themselves for the rest of their lives. I am lucky for some reason. I soon open my eyes and see how wonderful life can be, you just have to give it the chance it deserves. You have my sympathy, although you would probably refuse it. From what I have witnessed in my past, sympathy is the last thing people like you require. You would have to view the persons whole life to begin to understand it. But I wish you well and hope your dark clouds soon shift.

I have found a Picture of Jewel..

Bullet Magnet wrote:I have found a Picture of Jewel..

I won't be posting a cri de coeur here anytime soon

Richard Dawkins? Pfft! Another Pollyanna natalist.

'We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?'

Check this out

He should stick to the Science and not spout a load of Pollyanna Natalist pseudo spiritual mumbo jumbo.
A double helping of Pollyanna assholery here...no wonder it's introduced by jesters.




http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1195 ... rd-dawkins

Dusak with the greatest of respect you are fully entitled to your opinions about life, just as I am, and if you feel that you have a choice regarding it then good luck with that, for in the end none of us have had a choice in being brought into existence, and if we deny the realities of our lives so be it.
I recommend David Benatars book it may open your mind somewhat.


“Never to have been born is best But if we must see the light, the next best Is quickly returning whence we came. When youth departs, with all its follies, Who does not stagger under evils? Who escapes them?
Sophocles'
Sleep is good, death is better; but of course, The best would be never to have been born at all.
Heinrich Heine2”
― David Benatar, Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence

Have you ever read Henry Miller? Tropic of Cancer a great hook.

“...the monstrous thing is not that men have created roses out of this dung heap, but that, for some reason or other, they should want roses. For some reason or other man looks for the miracle, and to accomplish it he will wade through blood. He will debauch himself with ideas, he will reduce himself to a shadow if for only one second of his life he can close his eyes to the hideousness of reality. Everything is endured- disgrace, humiliation, poverty, war, crime, ennui- in the belief that overnight something will occur, a miracle, which will render life tolerable. And all the while a meter is running inside and there is no hand that can reach in there and shut it off.”

Henry Miller, Tropic of Cancer

Jewel what has happened, last year you were posting about the "almost sensual" experience of eating pomegranets and how you loved them, know I have spelt it wrong, it's the pommy season again go out buy some enjoy.
I know I am going to die, the ineviatable end for all of us but I am going to make sure I enjoy what is left to me of my time.