Don't Know Egypt

[Zooropa]

Advising an Egyptian of anything other than what they want to hear is impossible.

They are the most pig headed people on the planet.

How else can you explain doing the same thing over and over and over even though its not working?

Maybe if you could speak Arabic then it would be different.

I do not think that being able to say in Arabic to a local who has reasonable English "hassling the **** out of people is not a good sales tactic" is going to make much difference.

[Bearded Brian]

Why would he need reasonable english if you were speaking to him in arabic

[DJKeefy]

Advising an Egyptian of anything other than what they want to hear is impossible.

They are the most pig headed people on the planet.

How else can you explain doing the same thing over and over and over even though its not working?

Maybe if you could speak Arabic then it would be different.

I do not think that being able to say in Arabic to a local who has reasonable English "hassling the **** out of people is not a good sales tactic" is going to make much difference.

The problem is, there is many Egyptians who can speak very good English, but I have found (even with top professional guys) they do not understand it 100%, still they nod at you like they do understand, only 30 minutes ago I tested it on an Egyptian who could speak very good English, I said "do you know where the teapot is" he nodded at me (like he understood) and said he did not know, I then asked him what is a teapot, he did not have a clue, In conversation I mentioned more things on him which gave the same results.

Years ago when I was hassled "La shukran" and small bits of Arabic did not work, of course anything in English just caused more hassle "Oh your from England", "my brother lives in London" etc. Today if someone comes up selling something for example, I speak to them with proper sentences in Arabic, like, "I am not interested in buying anything from them" I always get left alone then. Not sure about others but works for me.

[DJKeefy]

At the end of the day, I would not expect visitors to Egypt to speak Arabic though

[Glyphdoctor]

Even though you have been here some time and have a greater knowledge of all things Egyptian, it does not alter the fact that you are nothing more than a glorified tourist yourself, you can be an apologist for the way they interact with tourists if you want, but it wont change the fact that they are sowing the seeds of their own failure whilst they refuse to change.

I don't know what a glorified tourist is, but I do know that most people I deal with on a daily basis assume I am Egyptian from the outset. I have Egyptians come up to me all the time in the street and ask for directions. They wouldn't do that if they thought I was a tourist.

I also have encountered tourists of various nationalities who assumed I was Egyptian as well, and based on their personal assumptions, their behavior toward me was atrocious, inappropriate and sometimes bigoted, enough so that if I wanted to I could have dragged a few of them off to the police station if I wanted to, even though I am not working in the tourist business and at the time was actually minding my own business when they started abusing me.

There is bad behavior from some people in the tourism business and that is not right. But I have witnessed and experienced enough horrible behavior from the tourists to realize that the bad blood doesn't flow in one direction. It's a result of a clash of cultures and attitudes and intolerance and rudeness stemming from that. And one impatient and offensive tourist paves the way for abuse of the next tourist who comes along. You may have to put up with crap for a week, but they have to put up with crap 52 weeks out of the year. I don't condone it, but I can understand how that would make someone irritable and short-tempered with tourists because they are regularly dealing with abusive tourists.

[Zooropa]

Even though you have been here some time and have a greater knowledge of all things Egyptian, it does not alter the fact that you are nothing more than a glorified tourist yourself, you can be an apologist for the way they interact with tourists if you want, but it wont change the fact that they are sowing the seeds of their own failure whilst they refuse to change.

I don't know what a glorified tourist is, but I do know that most people I deal with on a daily basis assume I am Egyptian from the outset. I have Egyptians come up to me all the time in the street and ask for directions. They wouldn't do that if they thought I was a tourist.

I also have encountered tourists of various nationalities who assumed I was Egyptian as well, and based on their personal assumptions, their behavior toward me was atrocious, inappropriate and sometimes bigoted, enough so that if I wanted to I could have dragged a few of them off to the police station if I wanted to, even though I am not working in the tourist business and at the time was actually minding my own business when they started abusing me.

There is bad behavior from some people in the tourism business and that is not right. But I have witnessed and experienced enough horrible behavior from the tourists to realize that the bad blood doesn't flow in one direction. It's a result of a clash of cultures and attitudes and intolerance and rudeness stemming from that. And one impatient and offensive tourist paves the way for abuse of the next tourist who comes along. You may have to put up with crap for a week, but they have to put up with crap 52 weeks out of the year. I don't condone it, but I can understand how that would make someone irritable and short-tempered with tourists because they are regularly dealing with abusive tourists.

********.

[Zooropa]

Let the locals be short tempered and irritable with the very tiny few tourists who are rude and abusive towards them and leave the overwhelming majority of the rest of us who love visiting this country to walk down the street free from constant hassle and attempts to rip us off.

I completely reject your laughable claim that there is anything other than a very few tourists who behave poorly.

They are vastly outnumbered by locals who suddenly forget the tenants of their faith and would have no problem with ripping off any tourist gullible enough to allow it.

Tourists are not responsible for the poverty in this country but treated correctly they can have a positive affect on it.

That's why I claim they are pig headed because the way I have been treated on occasion has been totally unacceptable and im not alone in this.

[Dusak]

In my opinion, every single Egyptian with a connection to the retail and services providers of tourism are very polite and courteous with the visitor because they think that they can smell a fat wallet at a hundred paces. Then, when the offer to release some of that very easily obtained [in their view] and unwanted cash is POLITELY declined, that is when the majority of them turn into a hideous facsimile of a decent human being. Only a thought, but if GD were to dress in say, hot pants and a tie-dye T-shirt instead of the black is the new red, then the dreaded tourist tormentors would, Insha'Allah, show a little more respect towards her, or amusement.

[Who2]

Lets be honest about tourism here, a country whichever reaches a level of personnel economy that allows the 'working classes to visit other countries, rather than just being sent there for a war has now even reached the chinese.
When and if the billions of Chinese start to leave their country then expect a rather different WW tourist industry.
We are not talking about the educated or want to be educated traveler here, we are talking about the mass proletariat descending upon another and probably totally different culture and probably religion.
Remember when the English moaned about garlic and used olive oil only to have poured down their throats.
Well just because one can travel abroad certainly does not guarantee a personnel level of education and culture, as does eating whole-meal bread or understanding the difference twixt red white & rose wine.
The uneducated are very happy at being thought 'a thick tourist meeting a thick souk seller.
They both have a common affinity it's called being thick..
Ps: and anybody who cannot see that mass tourism to Luxor ruined this town then obviously belongs to that common affinity just mentioned.

[carrie]

I have just got in after being out all day. Been from one end of the Egyptian souk to the other and back, been along the tourist souk. Went for a drink in Sindbad, then walked up to Sofra for lunch. Along then to Saladin Square, up TV Street, along Hospital Street, to Wenkies for ice cream, back down to the end of Medina where we caught the local bus to the Emilio to go to the ferry. Walked towards the ferry where my friend and I saw a policeman sitting on a large chair, asked if we could sit down for a minute cause we were tired. Up he got, sat there for half an hour then caught the ferry, talked to some very nice Egyptian ladies on the ferry and then came home. All day from 9.30am till 7.30pm not one wrong word. Passed caleche drivers, numerous taxi drivers some asked if we wanted one , shukran and on their way they went. Had a great day no hassle. I don't expect hassle, I don't expect anyone to be rude to me I treat everyone I meet with respect, maybe people don't believe me when I say I don't get hassle but that's not my fault.

[DJKeefy]

maybe people don't believe me when I say I don't get hassle but that's not my fault.

Mind you carrie, you must admit sometimes you are in a world of your own, so probably hassle goes straight pass you

[carrie]

True Keefy, but I don't look for hassle and I do think that makes a difference. Perhaps everyone here knows it's not a lot of use hassling me cause they don't get any response so have given up.

[Zooropa]

True Keefy, but I don't look for hassle and I do think that makes a difference. Perhaps everyone here knows it's not a lot of use hassling me cause they don't get any response so have given up.

Unfortunately, the likes of me are away for long enough for me to be a "fresh" target each time I return.

[dsaxelby]

True Keefy, but I don't look for hassle and I do think that makes a difference. Perhaps everyone here knows it's not a lot of use hassling me cause they don't get any response so have given up.

Unfortunately, the likes of me are away for long enough for me to be a "fresh" target each time I return.

Perhaps Z but a lot of people use the same Taxi's, Caleshe, coffee shops etc... hotel's even, for fun we send new people down the tourist souk... alone ...we do rescue them ..... eventually

[Bearded Brian]

I don' look egyptian nor like an ex-pat living here but I too get asked for directions from egyptians.. As for hassle, sometimes it doesn't matter if you speak egyptian or not it's all about your attitude, if you are a confrontationalist then there is more chance that your actions will escalate the hassle.

[Glyphdoctor]

A militant atheist complaining about believers not following their faith?

[Glyphdoctor]

I don't expect hassle, I don't expect anyone to be rude to me I treat everyone I meet with respect, maybe people don't believe me when I say I don't get hassle but that's not my fault.

I believe you. But misery loves company and some people can't accept that some of us simply don't have miserable experiences in Egypt.

[Glyphdoctor]

Only a thought, but if GD were to dress in say, hot pants and a tie-dye T-shirt instead of the black is the new red, then the dreaded tourist tormentors would, Insha'Allah, show a little more respect towards her, or amusement. :mrgreen:

You have a thick skull. I don't know why you can't get grasp the fact that the short meek woman in some video you saw dressed all in flowing black wasn't me. I got your references to "full battle gear," you know, I just wanted you to admit your prejudices against conservatively dressed women clearly rather than beat around the bush as you did.

But you know what? If you actually knew how I dressed I think you would put your foot in your mouth and keep it there, or better yet, step on your fingers with your foot so they don't touch the keyboard.

However, that does not change the fact that you would mock a woman for how she is dressed, even if you are wrong about me. On the other hand, I would defend a woman who walked down the streets of Luxor in a bikini. How a woman chooses to dress is her business.

Carrie doesn't get hassled. Maybe just some people know how to conduct themselves in public and others don't. Not anythign about how they dress.

[Glyphdoctor]

I don' look egyptian nor like an ex-pat living here but I too get asked for directions from egyptians...

In Arabic or English?

[Who2]

Quote: I would defend a woman who walked down the streets of Luxor in a bikini. How a woman chooses to dress is her business.
Why don't I believe you about this statement ?.......