Hurghada
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Re: Hurghada
High level of E coli and bacteria found at Egypt hotel where couple died
Thomas Cook has found high levels of E coli and bacteria that can cause toxic shock syndrome at the Red Sea hotel in Egypt where two British tourists died suddenly last month.
The tour operator carried out investigations at the Steigenberger Aqua Magic hotel in Hurghada in the wake of the deaths of John and Susan Cooper, a couple aged 69 and 63, from Burnley who were on a family holiday.
The company announced on Wednesday that tests on food and hygiene standards at the all-inclusive hotel identified a high level of E coli and staphylococcus bacteria. The latter most often causes skin infections but can also cause blood poisoning and toxic shock syndrome which can be rapidly fatal if not treated promptly, according to the NHS.
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E coli causes severe stomach illness and life-threatening kidney failure in a small minority of cases. Thomas Cook said it was now clear that “something went wrong in August at the Steigenberger Aqua Magic Hotel in Hurghada and that standards fell below what we expect from our hotel partners”.
Guests reported that some people were so ill that they defecated involuntarily in the swimming pools and complained of being served undercooked and raw chicken and drinks from dirty glasses.
“It is likely that the presence of E coli and staphylococcus would explain the raised level of illness reported among guests at the hotel during this time, supporting Thomas Cook’s decision to remove our 300 customers,” the tour operator said.
Tests on the air and water quality came back clear as did checks on the swimming pools, which showed normal levels of chlorine. The company’s experts have still not been able to access the room where the couple fell ill as it is under the control of the Egyptian authorities.
The Coopers’ daughter, Kelly Ormerod, had been with them the night before they died and reported that they used perfume to cover up a strange odour in the room.
Thomas Cook’s results were assessed by Dr Vanya Gant, a clinical director in microbiology and infection at University College London hospitals. The tour operator said Gant did not believe the findings “shed any light on the still unexplained cause of death” and it awaited the results of the autopsies being conducted by the Egyptian authorities.
The Red Sea governorate originally described the incident as: “Normal death of an English old man and his wife.” Dr Maged Eladawy, the head of Hurghada hospital, claimed Sue Cooper, 63, had died “of grief”.
Thomas Cook’s chief executive, Peter Fankhauser, said: “We are working closely with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to ensure we prioritise the very best interests of the Cooper family.
“However, the tests that Thomas Cook commissioned and announced today show that hygiene at the Steigenberger Aqua Magic Hotel during the month of August did not meet the standards we expect. I am very sorry for all our customers who fell ill while on a Thomas Cook holiday at this hotel.
“These results, while not establishing the cause of the tragic deaths of John and Susan Cooper, have prompted us to commit further resource to tackle hygiene standards in those hotels where we identify a higher than average level of sickness.”
The German hotel company Steigenberger has previously said that the Aqua Magic hotel in Hurghada was operated by a franchisee and that it had launched its own investigation into standards.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... ouple-died
Thomas Cook has found high levels of E coli and bacteria that can cause toxic shock syndrome at the Red Sea hotel in Egypt where two British tourists died suddenly last month.
The tour operator carried out investigations at the Steigenberger Aqua Magic hotel in Hurghada in the wake of the deaths of John and Susan Cooper, a couple aged 69 and 63, from Burnley who were on a family holiday.
The company announced on Wednesday that tests on food and hygiene standards at the all-inclusive hotel identified a high level of E coli and staphylococcus bacteria. The latter most often causes skin infections but can also cause blood poisoning and toxic shock syndrome which can be rapidly fatal if not treated promptly, according to the NHS.
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Read more
E coli causes severe stomach illness and life-threatening kidney failure in a small minority of cases. Thomas Cook said it was now clear that “something went wrong in August at the Steigenberger Aqua Magic Hotel in Hurghada and that standards fell below what we expect from our hotel partners”.
Guests reported that some people were so ill that they defecated involuntarily in the swimming pools and complained of being served undercooked and raw chicken and drinks from dirty glasses.
“It is likely that the presence of E coli and staphylococcus would explain the raised level of illness reported among guests at the hotel during this time, supporting Thomas Cook’s decision to remove our 300 customers,” the tour operator said.
Tests on the air and water quality came back clear as did checks on the swimming pools, which showed normal levels of chlorine. The company’s experts have still not been able to access the room where the couple fell ill as it is under the control of the Egyptian authorities.
The Coopers’ daughter, Kelly Ormerod, had been with them the night before they died and reported that they used perfume to cover up a strange odour in the room.
Thomas Cook’s results were assessed by Dr Vanya Gant, a clinical director in microbiology and infection at University College London hospitals. The tour operator said Gant did not believe the findings “shed any light on the still unexplained cause of death” and it awaited the results of the autopsies being conducted by the Egyptian authorities.
The Red Sea governorate originally described the incident as: “Normal death of an English old man and his wife.” Dr Maged Eladawy, the head of Hurghada hospital, claimed Sue Cooper, 63, had died “of grief”.
Thomas Cook’s chief executive, Peter Fankhauser, said: “We are working closely with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to ensure we prioritise the very best interests of the Cooper family.
“However, the tests that Thomas Cook commissioned and announced today show that hygiene at the Steigenberger Aqua Magic Hotel during the month of August did not meet the standards we expect. I am very sorry for all our customers who fell ill while on a Thomas Cook holiday at this hotel.
“These results, while not establishing the cause of the tragic deaths of John and Susan Cooper, have prompted us to commit further resource to tackle hygiene standards in those hotels where we identify a higher than average level of sickness.”
The German hotel company Steigenberger has previously said that the Aqua Magic hotel in Hurghada was operated by a franchisee and that it had launched its own investigation into standards.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... ouple-died
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Re: Hurghada
Years ago I had my place fumigated by local guy's that worked for the government, dead cheap!
Luckily we had no cats or dogs the rabbits I had given to 'er next door'
They sprayed every room, after not a single living creature existed within 100 yards......
2 days later I reentered the homestead, interesting smell even with all doors, windows and fans working to the max....
Novachoc ? them Russkies were at it again!
Luckily we had no cats or dogs the rabbits I had given to 'er next door'
They sprayed every room, after not a single living creature existed within 100 yards......
2 days later I reentered the homestead, interesting smell even with all doors, windows and fans working to the max....
Novachoc ? them Russkies were at it again!
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Re: Hurghada
It would be interesting to know if TC had informed they were inspecting the hotel previous to doing so. Like the H&S do in the UK. Quick all hands on Deck!!!!
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Re: Hurghada
Not necessary Horus, I think E-Coli could be rife in Egypt, especially in transported food from Cairo that has been on the road a few hours, and subjected to high temperatures in the back of lorries that are unsuitable for food transport. How many of you have seen defrosted food in freezers in the shops.
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Re: Hurghada
I'm not convinced that this is the primary cause of death. These were by all accounts a fit and healthy couple. I think it would be very unusual for a couple to die in such a short time of each other, and yet other guests who have also presented with food poisioning symptoms have survived. The matter of the strange smell has not been fully addressed and, in my opinion has to be linked to at least being a contriburary factor.
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Re: Hurghada
I'm not convinced that this is the primary cause of death. These were by all accounts a fit and healthy couple. I think it would be very unusual for a couple to die in such a short time of each other, and yet other guests who have also presented with food poisioning symptoms have survived. The matter of the strange smell has not been fully addressed and, in my opinion has to be linked to at least being a contriburary factor.
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Re: Hurghada
You mean you actually believe their story MT? I am quite aware of food poisoning in Egypt as I have suffered from it and yes it can make you seriously ill, but I doubt if two reasonably healthy people would die from it in such a short space of time. Not to put too fine of a point on it, but if they had been so ill that they could not raise the alarm in some way, then I would have expected their daughter to report finding vomit and other emisssions in and around them in their room and bed if they had been so helpless. No one has yet addressed the strange smell that the daughter reported or the fact that it had an ajoining room that had recently been fumigated, some reports saying that the ajoining door had been sealed around with a tape prior to the fumigation taking place. There is still more to this than meets the eye and if the Egyptian authorities did not have such a bad reputation for cover ups then perhaps people would be less suspicious.
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Re: Hurghada
I reckon that they were fumigating rooms with the powerful insecticide "lambda-cyhalothrin @ 5 %
to get rid of the e-coli. Hence the smell...I still think TC should be held responsible...
to get rid of the e-coli. Hence the smell...I still think TC should be held responsible...
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Re: Hurghada
That is the story being put out Horus, but I have to agree with yourself and Hepzi, E-Coli can be treated and people recover, the same like people do with food poisoning. I ám sure there must be something else, but I doubt we will ever know, a rather large tarpaulin has been thrown over the story. I still have not heard if the deceased remains have arrived in the UK yet. That I think may expose a little more of the truth and what happened. I really find it hard to believe that 2 fit and healthy people would succumb to E-Coli in such a small time scale.
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Re: Hurghada
More than likely it was used to get rid of insects such as bed bugs which are insects rather than e-coli which is a bacterium.Who2 wrote:I reckon that they were fumigating rooms with the powerful insecticide "lambda-cyhalothrin @ 5 %
to get rid of the e-coli. Hence the smell...I still think TC should be held responsible...
Those responsible are the ones that oversee and permit this sort of practice which must come down to management or company policy.
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Re: Hurghada
I agree.Horus wrote:More than likely it was used to get rid of insects such as bed bugs which are insects rather than e-coli which is a bacterium.Who2 wrote:I reckon that they were fumigating rooms with the powerful insecticide "lambda-cyhalothrin @ 5 %
to get rid of the e-coli. Hence the smell...I still think TC should be held responsible...
Those responsible are the ones that oversee and permit this sort of practice which must come down to management or company policy.
Whether it was a a bacterial infection or reaction to some insecticide that caused the deaths, I can't see why - on this occasion at least - the authorities would wish to obfuscate. The state's responsibility is much the same in either case.
In either case, surely most of the blame falls on the hotel (owned by a wealthy Egyptian businessman, rather than the State) or TC for not monitoring their accommodation adequately.
Incidentally, the reference in many posts to the effect that the couple were fit & healthy should be questioned. I believe they were in their 60's. Often, health issues remain undetected until tested by the stress of illness, exposure to chemicals etc. My younger brother. apparently fit & healthy, died suddenly of an undiagnosed heart condition.
A full and detailed autopsy in UK would be a good idea....if it remains a possibility after so much time has elapsed.
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Re: Hurghada
'Fit and healthy' is a term I have used in my post as above. I use it because the daughter of the couple mentioned at one point that her mother attended the gym a number of times a week and we generally in good health.
I think it's a term to identify that although the couple were both over 60, neither were known to have any [relevant] preexisting condition or health issues that would have made them any more weak than anyone else.
Given that others guests have complained of food related illness, it seems very odd that two people, who were sharing a room, died so quickly, without even having time to complain of being unwell, and yet others survived (without even being hospitalised as far as I'm aware). I'd hazard a guess that other guests at the hotel hit with the food related illness were also over 60, but that is only a guess.
I think it's a term to identify that although the couple were both over 60, neither were known to have any [relevant] preexisting condition or health issues that would have made them any more weak than anyone else.
Given that others guests have complained of food related illness, it seems very odd that two people, who were sharing a room, died so quickly, without even having time to complain of being unwell, and yet others survived (without even being hospitalised as far as I'm aware). I'd hazard a guess that other guests at the hotel hit with the food related illness were also over 60, but that is only a guess.
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Re: Hurghada
LAMBDA-CYHALOTHRIN
Toxbase summary
Type of product
Insecticide
Toxicity
Dermal and inhalational exposures are associated usually with no or
only mild adverse effects. Following substantial ingestion, patients
may develop coma, convulsions and severe muscle fasciculations and may
take several days, occasionally weeks, to recover.
Fatalities have occurred rarely after pyrethroid exposure, usually
following ingestion (He et al, 1989). No known fatalities have been
reported after lambda-cyhalothrin exposure.
Features
Dermal exposure
- Tingling and pruritus with blotchy erythema on the face or
other exposed areas, exacerbated by sweating or touching.
Systemic toxicity may ensue following substantial exposure
(see below).
Ocular exposure
- Lacrimation and transient conjunctivitis may occur.
Inhalation
Brief exposure:
- Respiratory tract irritation with cough, mild dyspnoea,
sneezing and rhinorrhea.
Substantial and prolonged exposure:
- Systemic toxicity may ensue - see below.
Ingestion
- May cause nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain. Systemic
toxicity may ensue following substantial ingestion (see
below).
Systemic toxicity
- Systemic symptoms may develop after widespread dermal
exposure, prolonged inhalation or ingestion. Features
include headache, dizziness, anorexia and hypersalivation.
- Severe poisoning is uncommon. It usually follows
substantial ingestion and causes impaired consciousness,
muscle fasciculations, convulsions and, rarely, non-
cardiogenic pulmonary oedema.
Chronic exposure
- Long-term exposure is no more hazardous than short-term
exposure.
Toxbase summary
Type of product
Insecticide
Toxicity
Dermal and inhalational exposures are associated usually with no or
only mild adverse effects. Following substantial ingestion, patients
may develop coma, convulsions and severe muscle fasciculations and may
take several days, occasionally weeks, to recover.
Fatalities have occurred rarely after pyrethroid exposure, usually
following ingestion (He et al, 1989). No known fatalities have been
reported after lambda-cyhalothrin exposure.
Features
Dermal exposure
- Tingling and pruritus with blotchy erythema on the face or
other exposed areas, exacerbated by sweating or touching.
Systemic toxicity may ensue following substantial exposure
(see below).
Ocular exposure
- Lacrimation and transient conjunctivitis may occur.
Inhalation
Brief exposure:
- Respiratory tract irritation with cough, mild dyspnoea,
sneezing and rhinorrhea.
Substantial and prolonged exposure:
- Systemic toxicity may ensue - see below.
Ingestion
- May cause nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain. Systemic
toxicity may ensue following substantial ingestion (see
below).
Systemic toxicity
- Systemic symptoms may develop after widespread dermal
exposure, prolonged inhalation or ingestion. Features
include headache, dizziness, anorexia and hypersalivation.
- Severe poisoning is uncommon. It usually follows
substantial ingestion and causes impaired consciousness,
muscle fasciculations, convulsions and, rarely, non-
cardiogenic pulmonary oedema.
Chronic exposure
- Long-term exposure is no more hazardous than short-term
exposure.
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Re: Hurghada
Thomas Cook gave the hotel a 'clean bill of health only 2 months previous to this tragic accident.
Why ? Guests were complaining of health problems,before & after.
They cannot all be insurance scam merchants, or can they ?
The British tourist abroad can be a pretty nasty experience to encounter, in my humble opinion....
The whole stinks to high heaven as does the Salisbury novacock incident......
Rant over...ps: Just heard that Jeremy Corbyn is going to get circumcised live on TV..
Why ? Guests were complaining of health problems,before & after.
They cannot all be insurance scam merchants, or can they ?
The British tourist abroad can be a pretty nasty experience to encounter, in my humble opinion....
The whole stinks to high heaven as does the Salisbury novacock incident......
Rant over...ps: Just heard that Jeremy Corbyn is going to get circumcised live on TV..
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Re: Hurghada
JL, I assume by your post that you are trying to say that the insecticide used in the room was unlikely to have caused their deaths?
ingestion
ɪnˈdʒɛstʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: ingestion; plural noun: ingestions
the process of taking food, drink, or another substance into the body by swallowing or absorbing it.
"vomiting after ingestion of contaminated food"
the process of absorbing information.
"the quiet ingestion of information"
I would suggest that breathing in fumes from this insecticide over a longish period overnight would qualify as ingestion under the above definition.
"May cause nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain.
Systemic toxicity may ensue following substantial ingestion"
Systemic toxicity means that most organs in the body are affected.
"Severe poisoning is uncommon. It usually follows substantial ingestion and causes impaired consciousness, muscle fasciculations, convulsions and, rarely, non-
cardiogenic pulmonary oedema."
"Non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema is a clinical syndrome manifested by rapidly progressive respiratory distress leading, without therapy, to severe respiratory insufficiency and subsequent multiorgan failure. The pathophysiological causes are: the change in the pressure gradients in the pulmonary capillaries, the impaired membrane permeability of the alveolocapillary in the lungs, and impaired lymphatic drainage. Unlike in cardiogenic pulmonary edema, cardiac disease is not a cause, and there is no increase in wedge pressure (< 18 mm Hg). The aetiological base is diverse and includes more clinical pathological factors. The diagnosis and evaluation are usually very difficult due to the rapidly deteriorating clinical condition of the patients. A decisive, quick and comprehensive approach, using all available invasive and non-invasive methods is necessary. The basic steps of treatment are: the use of different types of ventilatory support in order to achieve adequate oxygenation, dealing with possible hemodynamic instability, and, when needed, other specific procedures. It is always important to keep in mind that this is a very serious condition with a high mortality rate. And there is a need for fast and efficient access to the best specialized clinic."
ingestion
ɪnˈdʒɛstʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: ingestion; plural noun: ingestions
the process of taking food, drink, or another substance into the body by swallowing or absorbing it.
"vomiting after ingestion of contaminated food"
the process of absorbing information.
"the quiet ingestion of information"
I would suggest that breathing in fumes from this insecticide over a longish period overnight would qualify as ingestion under the above definition.
"May cause nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain.
Systemic toxicity may ensue following substantial ingestion"
Systemic toxicity means that most organs in the body are affected.
"Severe poisoning is uncommon. It usually follows substantial ingestion and causes impaired consciousness, muscle fasciculations, convulsions and, rarely, non-
cardiogenic pulmonary oedema."
"Non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema is a clinical syndrome manifested by rapidly progressive respiratory distress leading, without therapy, to severe respiratory insufficiency and subsequent multiorgan failure. The pathophysiological causes are: the change in the pressure gradients in the pulmonary capillaries, the impaired membrane permeability of the alveolocapillary in the lungs, and impaired lymphatic drainage. Unlike in cardiogenic pulmonary edema, cardiac disease is not a cause, and there is no increase in wedge pressure (< 18 mm Hg). The aetiological base is diverse and includes more clinical pathological factors. The diagnosis and evaluation are usually very difficult due to the rapidly deteriorating clinical condition of the patients. A decisive, quick and comprehensive approach, using all available invasive and non-invasive methods is necessary. The basic steps of treatment are: the use of different types of ventilatory support in order to achieve adequate oxygenation, dealing with possible hemodynamic instability, and, when needed, other specific procedures. It is always important to keep in mind that this is a very serious condition with a high mortality rate. And there is a need for fast and efficient access to the best specialized clinic."
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Re: Hurghada
https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/full-inve ... 20Bulletin
Full investigation into Hurghada deaths 'could take months', coroner says
Dr James Adeley, senior coroner for Lancashire, where the couple lived, said concerns about the case meant a UK evaluation of findings at the post mortem in Egypt “may take some weeks or possibly several months to analyse”.
He told London’s Evening Standard that results from Egypt, which determined that the Coopers had died of complications associated with E. coli poisoning, would be compared with those of the UK investigation. The Cooper’s daughter Kelly Ormerod, who was also staying in the hotel, has disputed the findings of the Egyptian authorities.
Thomas Cook said earlier this week that would examine the full report from the Egyptian authorities and added: “we will need time for our own experts to review it”.
Steigenberger Hotels, which operates the Aqua Magic hotel where the family were staying, said it had put in place extra quality checks, but in a statement, chief executive Thomas Wilms, said: We are in intensive discussions about our future relationship with our operating partners at the Hotel Aqua Magic.”
Full investigation into Hurghada deaths 'could take months', coroner says
Dr James Adeley, senior coroner for Lancashire, where the couple lived, said concerns about the case meant a UK evaluation of findings at the post mortem in Egypt “may take some weeks or possibly several months to analyse”.
He told London’s Evening Standard that results from Egypt, which determined that the Coopers had died of complications associated with E. coli poisoning, would be compared with those of the UK investigation. The Cooper’s daughter Kelly Ormerod, who was also staying in the hotel, has disputed the findings of the Egyptian authorities.
Thomas Cook said earlier this week that would examine the full report from the Egyptian authorities and added: “we will need time for our own experts to review it”.
Steigenberger Hotels, which operates the Aqua Magic hotel where the family were staying, said it had put in place extra quality checks, but in a statement, chief executive Thomas Wilms, said: We are in intensive discussions about our future relationship with our operating partners at the Hotel Aqua Magic.”
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Re: Hurghada
19-09-2018.
John and Susan Cooper, from Burnley, died suddenly on August 21, after becoming ill while staying at the Steigenberger Aqua Magic Hotel in the Red Sea resort of Hurghada.
A private joint-funeral took place this morning at St Catherine's Church in the Lancashire town......
James Adeley, senior coroner for Blackburn with Darwen, passed on his condolences as the inquests into the couple’s deaths opened and adjourned yesterday until a date to be arranged.
A brief chronology of events was given at Preston Coroner's Court, with Dr Adeley explaining that as the deaths occurred outside the UK he could only make "requests" for information from the authorities in Egypt.
Dr Adeley said he would be requesting all relevant reports and documentation from a long list of public bodies in Egypt and from Thomas Cook.
The Egyptian authorities said their examinations showed Mr Cooper, 69, suffered acute intestinal dysentery caused by E.coli - bacteria associated with sever food poisoning. Mrs Cooper, a 63-year-old Thomas Cook employee, was said to have suffered a complication linked to infection, likely to have been caused by E.coli.
Travel agent for the hotel Thomas Cook carried its own tests, which also showed up high levels of E.coli at the resort. But the firm said these results did not necessarily "shed any light" on the cause of the Coopers' deaths.
Ms Ormerod, who was on holiday with her parents and her own three children at the time, believes that E.coli does not explain the rapid nature of her mother and father's sudden death.
.
.
The family have said they hope the coroner's investigation will establish the "true cause" of death. ??????
So, A thorough post mortem carried out on British soil, no stone unturned... ?
John and Susan Cooper, from Burnley, died suddenly on August 21, after becoming ill while staying at the Steigenberger Aqua Magic Hotel in the Red Sea resort of Hurghada.
A private joint-funeral took place this morning at St Catherine's Church in the Lancashire town......
James Adeley, senior coroner for Blackburn with Darwen, passed on his condolences as the inquests into the couple’s deaths opened and adjourned yesterday until a date to be arranged.
A brief chronology of events was given at Preston Coroner's Court, with Dr Adeley explaining that as the deaths occurred outside the UK he could only make "requests" for information from the authorities in Egypt.
Dr Adeley said he would be requesting all relevant reports and documentation from a long list of public bodies in Egypt and from Thomas Cook.
The Egyptian authorities said their examinations showed Mr Cooper, 69, suffered acute intestinal dysentery caused by E.coli - bacteria associated with sever food poisoning. Mrs Cooper, a 63-year-old Thomas Cook employee, was said to have suffered a complication linked to infection, likely to have been caused by E.coli.
Travel agent for the hotel Thomas Cook carried its own tests, which also showed up high levels of E.coli at the resort. But the firm said these results did not necessarily "shed any light" on the cause of the Coopers' deaths.
Ms Ormerod, who was on holiday with her parents and her own three children at the time, believes that E.coli does not explain the rapid nature of her mother and father's sudden death.
.
.
The family have said they hope the coroner's investigation will establish the "true cause" of death. ??????
So, A thorough post mortem carried out on British soil, no stone unturned... ?
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Re: Hurghada
I know that this has nothing to do with the above tragic topic but the main reason my long time visiting friends are no longer going to visit Egypt is because of the drop in hygiene standards at the E-Tab and the low quality and stale food they were served up at breakfast. I personally would not eat at any hotel here, I think that the street food would be a more healthy option. I will no longer eat at a certain restaurant here because a friend and I had a bad stomach the day after. Same friend went to another local restaurant with a group of friends, several of which suffered the next day. Gone are the days, due to now low tourist numbers and near empty hotels, food was consumed at high rates. Food now is being either reheated, chilled in the fridge for long periods or refrozen as they can no longer afford to give it away to staff or dump it. Even the rats are feeling the pinch.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.
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