14 Policemen Killed in a Shootout in Al-Bahariya Oasis

[newcastle]

*** BREAKING NEWS***

NEWS
14 Policemen Killed in a Shootout in Al-Bahariya Oasis in Giza


EGYPTIAN STREETS
OCTOBER 20, 2017

At least 14 policemen are killed in a patrol in Giza’s Al- Bahariya Oasis, security sources reported to Reuters Arabic.

Clashes occurred when eight militants opened fire at a security force that was heading to arrest them.

No official statement from the Ministry of Interior has been released yet.


How 8 militants managed to slaughter 14 policemen....presumably armed and expecting trouble....is puzzling.

[DJKeefy]

At least 30 Egyptian police officers killed in desert shootout

Armed militants killed at least 30 police officers in a shootout during a raid on a suspected militant hideout in Egypt’s western desert, security sources said on Friday.

A number of suspected militants were also killed and security forces are searching the area, according to a statement from the interior ministry.

Egypt is facing an Islamist insurgency concentrated in the Sinai peninsula – from two main groups, including an Islamic State affiliate – that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of members of the security forces since 2013.

Islamist militants have launched several major attacks, most recently targeting churches in Cairo and other cities with the loss of dozens of lives.

The security sources said authorities were following a lead to a hideout deep in the desert thought to house eight suspected members of Hasm, a group that has claimed several attacks around the capital targeting judges and police since last year.

A convoy of four SUVs and one interior ministry vehicle was ambushed from higher ground by militants firing rocket-propelled grenades and detonating explosive devices, a senior source in the Giza security office said. The number of dead was expected to rise, according to two security sources which also revealed that eight security personnel were injured in the clashes. Another source said four of the injured were police officers and four others were suspected militants.

The Egyptian government accuses Hasm of being the militant wing of the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group it outlawed in 2013. The Muslim Brotherhood denies this.

The Islamist insurgency in the Sinai peninsula has grown since the military overthrew President Mohamed Mursi of the Muslim Brotherhood in mid-2013 following mass protests against his rule.

The militant group staging the insurgency pledged allegiance to Islamic State in 2014. It is blamed for the killing of hundreds of soldiers and policemen and has started to target others, including Egypt’s Christian Copts.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... t-shootout

[newcastle]

The security sources said authorities were following a lead to a hideout deep in the desert thought to house eight suspected members of Hasm, a group that has claimed several attacks around the capital targeting judges and police since last year.

The toll of Egyptian police killed at this incident now exceeds 50.

A BBC report mentioned the capture of insurgents in the area a week ago and , following information obtained, the police were on their way to deal with a training camp. A trap maybe?

Reminds me of the fate that nearly befell Ramesses II at Kadesh.

The Sun Festival at Abu Simbel - when then sun's rays penetrate to the innermost sanctum of the temple - and which would have been celebrated tomorrow, 22nd October, has been cancelled.

[Hafiz]

Reuters says its 30 but says, in other reports, its 16. (the guardian gave up on Egypt ages ago and now just pays to reprint Reuters and occasionally hires a few locals for bits and pieces who can't otherwise get a full-time job). The numbers are irrelevant but the questions are interesting.

Why would such a very large group of cops be in one very remote place (assuming the dead were only a half or a third or less of the total police group). How well armed were they. Why was such a large group of cops, and not army, put into a terrorist risk zone. How large was the terrorist attack group. Do they send large cop contingents into remote oasis/Western Desert locations (like this one) to deal with terrorist threats and if they do so what is the army doing. Where were all the hundreds of attack helicopters, sophisticated machine guns, armored personnel carriers, 3,000 tanks not to mention the hundreds of F16's? of the army.

The media fails to mention, and this is not insignificant, who were the terrorists. Were they 'locals' or Libyans and if the latter are they connected with that group that, alone, Egypt and Russia support? Obviously to do such a killing it was a large, well organized and well equipped terrorist group. Probably one that had enticed the cops into a trap - based on bad Egyptian intelligence. What is very odd about the Egyptian Government reports is that they say there were no terrorists dead. Hoe could you have 30 dead cops and no dead terrorists?

I think its true that this is the biggest single killing of Egyptian security in recent years - so someone should loose their job.

There are lots of questions but the President made his views about the cops competency when he said to the New York media a few years ago that the Egyptian police were a 'million man mafia'. If they are so bad they should not be involved in dealing with terrorists who, in this and other examples show, are quite good at what they do. We need the proven capacity of the 'ever victorious' Egyptian army to deal with them as well as they have in Sinai over the last 6 years. The anti-terror capacity of the Egyptian army is mind-blowing.

What would be interesting, but will never be released, is how many of the dead were conscripts. This is relevant for two reasons. The popular view is that the worst conscripts are forced into the cops. The second view, impossible to prove, is that conscripts are put without proper training and leadership into high risk areas. The second view is given some support when you look at the earlier deaths of army and police in Sinai - they were not specialist commando, SAS types - there were very young amateurs. Still, on the other hand, why would you want to risk your best and brightest and well trained when you could toss in some illiterate farmers son?

The western view of Egyptian military, security and police capacity is absolutely clear. Its not good - its worse than not good.

The only question is why all the tens of billions in the past 4 years have gone onto high status, high technology, high prestige PharonIc spending to fight a war with another nation state when the only threat is not a nation state - its marauding small groups of terrorists. Meanwhile Egypt gets delivery from France of its new high technology navy whilst its real needs are effective officers, a logical counter-terrorism strategy and skilled and trained specialist forces. Its simple and cheap and its about police/military skill, intelligence, training, initiative and hard work.

[newcastle]

You might think so Hafiz.

I couldn't possibly comment.

Not because I don't have an opinion, but because everyone here has been officially threatened with dire consequences if they dare to speculate about terrorist activities.

[Hafiz]

Have I gone too far? A genuine question hoping for a direct answer.

[newcastle]

Have I gone too far? A genuine question hoping for a direct answer.

I imagine you're untouchable

But criticising the president, police, army or judiciary is a crime in Egypt. Speculating or commenting on security matters without specific authorisation is also a no-no.

Not that that stops a multitude of individuals laying into the above on social media. They operate under pseudonyms of course.

The likelihood of the authorities hitting on any individual here is remote....but not unknown as a former member of the forum can testify.

However, I'm conscious of the risks, try to keep my remarks oblique and have abandoned my plans for a gay bar in downtown Hurghada.

I was thinking of calling it "Over the Rainbow" with a giant statue of Judy Garland outside

[Major Thom]

I believe the dead has reached over 30 now, it was announced the Abacus has arrived.... Saw it on European News yesterday. It seems the EU is putting its own spin on how safe Egypt is for it's citizens...