Masacre in America

[Horus]

We are so used to hearing of religious fanatics causing mayhem on our streets, but this latest one from America just beggars belief. A 64 year old white male named as Steven Paddock opens up with machine gun fire on a concert crowd from a hotel window killing at least 50 people (and still rising) with over 400 injured. He shot himself and police found at least 10 firearms in the room, why does a so called civilised country tolerate the sale and easy obtaining of automatic weapons?

[Mad Dilys]

Beggars belief!

[Horus]

At least Obama for all his faults tried to reign in the American NRA, but as usual all attempts to regulate these weapons failed, maybe this time the peoples anger will over rule the gun lobbyists and some sort of ban on these weapons is implemented and who knows Trump may be the man to do it?

[newcastle]

At least Obama for all his faults tried to reign in the American NRA, but as usual all attempts to regulate these weapons failed, maybe this time the peoples anger will over rule the gun lobbyists and some sort of ban on these weapons is implemented and who knows Trump may be the man to do it?

Probably the least likely person to support gun control.

Not that any kind of control would prevent incidents like this mass shooting....as the NRA will be quick to point out.

[Horus]

I’m not so sure about that, in Nevada where a legally held automatic manufactured prior to 1986 could be publicly carried through a casino hotel lobby without violating any state laws? then some sort of gun control may have just prevented it.

[newcastle]

There is no gun control system on earth that will prevent a nutter from causing mayhem with a gun.

Even if you were to completely ban automatic weapons from private ownership, they would still be available, illegally, through criminal networks etc.

You may be able to reduce the likelihood. You will not prevent it.

[Dusak]

America will never change its gun laws, much money is made from the sales, its big business and owning one legally is seen as their right. Good job there are millions that can't afford one, or have no interest in owning one otherwise the world would see many more instances such as this latest and past events. I wonder, just out of a matter of interest, how many of those killed and injured actually owned a gun themselves.

[newcastle]

America will never change its gun laws, much money is made from the sales, its big business and owning one legally is seen as their right. Good job there are millions that can't afford one, or have no interest in owning one otherwise the world would see many more instances such as this latest and past events. I wonder, just out of a matter of interest, how many of those killed and injured actually owned a gun themselves.

Probably quite a few of them....which refutes the NRA's argument that owning a gun protects you!

[Horus]

You may be able to reduce the likelihood.

But is that not the point?

[newcastle]

You may be able to reduce the likelihood.

But is that not the point?

Up to a point.

It's the old argument...balancing positives against negatives.

The inconvenience of not being able to use your laptop on a plane versus the reduced risk of someone on board with an IED concealed in one.

The interference with one's right to wear whatever one chooses versus the risk of a niqab -wearing person being someone intent on committing an offence.

I think you'll find the Americans value the Second Amendment to their constitution above any theoretical reduction in gun related massacres.

For your delectation, I offer one American's insight into lawlessness :

“Violence in the streets, ladies and gentlemen. Why is it happening?” he asked. “The fact that we have disrespect for authority; there is profound disrespect for our president, all across this nation they say terrible things about him. It’s in the news, it’s in other places. There is disrespect now for our national anthem, disrespect for our veterans, disrespect for the institutions of our government, disrespect for the court system. All the way up and down the line, disrespect.”

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... p-and-god/

[Horus]

Well if you want comparisons it was stated today that over 1,384,171 Americans have died as a result of firearms since 1968, whereas the total American war dead for ALL conflicts since the countries inception was calculated as being 1,171,177 that to me puts the issue into perspective.

[Mad Dilys]

Bravo Horus! I totally agree.

I do wonder why so many Americans actually want to commit murder? If there were strict gun laws, would they turn to Knives or Poison? Is life so cheap to them or is something missing in their moral compass?

[Horus]

I personally think it is one of escalation, you have a knife, I buy a sword, you buy a .22 pistol, I buy a shotgun and so it goes. The problem being that with any increase of weapon lethality the death toll rises exponentially, a bit like nuclear weapons. I am sure that hand guns may prevent some crimes in some circumstances and you can never put the cat back into the bag once it is out, but you can limit the potential for mass killings by banning the sale of certain weapons to the public. We had the Hungerford massacre here in the UK and laws were put into place to restrict the owning and use of powerful rifles outside of the control of gun clubs and shooting ranges and to my knowledge no such incident has taken place since then, I for one feel safer knowing that firearms are not readily available for sale in the UK, I leave lethal force to the police and security services and not to my neighbour.

[HEPZIBAH]

Even if it is your constitutional right to own fire arms, how can it be right and 'normal' for someone to be able to take so many into a hotel room! Surely someone saw that he had so many guns and wondered why or thought it unusual.

I noticed one news report was focusing on the fact that this murderer's father had been an armed robber. Do the 'sins of the father' really pass down into the psyche of the son? I'm sure it must have some effect, but surely it cannot be used as an excuse.

Sadly, events like this often push up the sales of fire arms - a rush to buy for fee the 'ban the gun' lobby may actually take the upper ground - increasing the risk of further massacres, not reducing them.

[HEPZIBAH]

Well if you want comparisons it was stated today that over 1,384,171 Americans have died as a result of firearms since 1968, whereas the total American war dead for ALL conflicts since the countries inception was calculated as being 1,171,177 that to me puts the issue into perspective.

I read some more comprehensive statistics yesterday but alas can't find them at the moment. In the mean time, I've just come across this from the Guardian which is from 2015 and updated in 2016.

1,000 mass shootings in 1,260 days: this is what America's gun crisis looks like
Sunday’s attack on the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Florida was the deadliest mass shooting in American history – but there were five other mass shootings in the US during that weekend alone.
“We have a pattern now of mass shootings in this country that has no parallel anywhere else in the world,” Barack Obama said after the San Bernardino attack in December 2015.
Data compiled by the Gun Violence Archive reveals a shocking human toll: there is a mass shooting – defined as four or more people shot in one incident, not including the shooter – on five out of every six days, on average.
Last updated: 13 June 2016
Updated: America’s gun crisis – in one chart
Tuesday 14 June 2016 12.59 BST First published on Friday 2 October 2015 21.08 BST


To see the chart, open the link:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng- ... are_btn_fb

[FarleyFlavors]

maybe this time the peoples anger will over rule the gun lobbyists and some sort of ban on these weapons is implemented

If a guy can kill 20 six- and seven-year-olds at Sandy Hook Elementary without gun restrictions being implemented, I seriously doubt this latest massacre will have any effect whatsoever.

[Horus]

Unfortunately I tend to agree with you, but we can live in hope.

[Dusak]

Perhaps its just a case of Americans getting so easily p***** off with things. They do tend to give the impression of being an angry race of individuals a lot of the time.

[Major Thom]

You know what the US is like, they are still trying to determine if they live on this Earth or Fullers Earth. If they can be sideswiped by Donald Buttbubble they stand no chance anywhere else.