Long-Term Visa Help

[mom2daisy]

Hi all! I am American and heading to Egypt in September to marry my Egyptian fiance. I'm so confused -- Can you help shed some light on this? What are my options? One-year w/ renewals? Any other important information I need to know?

Thanks for any advice and insight!

Angela

[HEPZIBAH]

Hello and welcome to Luxor4U.

Firstly, let me say that I am not a visa expert as I only ever need a short term tourist visa. Visas for Egypt do seem to be a bit of a minefield these days though and you do need to look at the whole situation very carefully. I think you will find that your visa requirements are going to depend very much on the type of marriage you are going to have. By that I mean an Embassy registered marriage or an orfi marriage.
You need to check out the websites for the American Embassy/consulate and the Egyptian Embassy/Consulate as I think you will find more information there.

As a matter of interest, has your fiance given you any help or information over this?

You don't say how long you have been engaged, how often you visit Luxor etc. I know that is no ones business but your own but I would just encourage you to be cautious and do your homework well. There are many happy marriages between foreign women and Egyptian men, but alas there are far too many tales of woe too.

[Dusak]

Well, your first option would be to reconsider your up and coming marriage. One of the only things in Egypt is that 95% of such marriages are doomed to fail. I suggest that you join the F/B Visa regulations help group for foreigners living in Egypt. This will show you that your marriage certificate is not worth the paper it is written on, visa wise, unless its a, say, full American Embassy one. If you live in America, he lives here, then I would come over first, rent a flat for six months at least, then see if its the same guy you ''fell in love'' with. Like the washing powder Daz, six months will soon clear your vision and maybe he will have to come clean. You will only get a six month visa under normal circumstances.

[Mad Dilys]

I have been very fortunate in my very long relationship, but I have to agree with Dusak.

My husband always advises foreign women about to marry an Egyptian thus: "Give you husband no more than half your brain and half your money."

Always keep the one half of your money safely outside the country but accessible only by you.

I would buy an open-ended return ticket back to America valid for a year and keep it with you in Egypt. A return to your old home once a year is a good idea as perceptions change with your environment. It can be quite a shock when you return.

I would advise you to research as much as you can. Religion is a very important part of life in Luxor whether Christian or Muslim and neither will be practised in quite the same way as any other country, but I would advise talking to people of the same faith as your intended partner in America as much and as soon as you can. They may be able to point out advantages and disadvantages of their way of life. However very often religion and tradition mix can be very difficult to understand and people will insist that some practice is based on their religion when in fact it is tradition.

Look for possible difficulties and practical ways of overcoming problems. The first three years of adjustment are the most difficult, but can be well worth while.

A holiday is not normal everyday living anywhere in the world - but it does give you a taste of what local life is about.

Good luck.

[carrie]

Please take care, MD and Dusak's advise is very well meant and you would do well to follow it.

[Hafiz]

Are there reputable lawyers in Cairo expert in the area of visas and marriage?

Are pre-nups possible in Egypt?

Has our friend sought advice from the US Embassy/State Department?

Is is possible or even desirable to get married in the Cairo US Embassy under US law? In the case of a marriage under US law would an Egyptian court subsequently enforce a US court order in Egypt regarding assets, access or decision-making in the event that the marriage came to an end.

Are Egyptian 'marriages'/divorces recognized by US courts for the purposes of distributing the US based assets of one partner?

Is it the case that an Egyptian marriage confers little/no rights to stay in the country? What right of residency, if any, does a non-national retain after a divorce or the death of the Egyptian partner?

If the Egyptian partner dies what rights does the surviving non-Egyptian have over the children and the assets of the marriage/dead partner?

(Most importantly) what rights does a US national married to an Egyptian in Egypt have over the children of the marriage either during the marriage or after any divorce. For example rights to determine the child's religion, education, education in non-Muslim schools?

What are the rights of access and decision making regarding children under Egyptian divorce law in the case of a marriage between an Egyptian and non-Egyptian and is this affected by the genders of the partners.

What are the Egyptian laws of inheritance, in the case of death or legal incapacity, as regards both the Egyptian and non-Egyptian assets of a non-national married to an Egyptian. Note Egyptian law doesn't give much weight to wills? Are these Egyptian laws enforceable in US courts as regards US based assets?

What is the nationality status/passport of any child born in Egypt from a marriage in Egypt between a US national and an Egyptian citizen?

In the case of the removal of children of the US-Egyptian marriage from the US will an Egyptian court enforce visitation/access rights for the US partner or the return of the children to the US where they have been illegally removed from the US. (This was the subject of a recent case in Australia over a Lebanese-Australian marriage. Even though the marriage had been performed in Australia (I think) and even though the children had been illegally removed from Australia back to Lebanon, the Australian courts were unable to enforce their decision in Lebanon and the Lebanese courts entirely backed the ex-husband's absolute rights to control the children - in this case they remained in Lebanon and the Australian-based ex-wife had limited/no access (even in Lebanon) and no say over their education etc.).

The possible future implications of life changing decisions are worth thinking through.

[newcastle]

There you go Angela....

Some visa advice...and a lot of pre-marital counselling.

The site mentioned by Dusak is worth visiting/joining as your specific enquiry has been addressed there several times.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/937248653023647/

[Dusak]

And, unfortunately its not the ''relationship'' that, in most cases, causes any problems or concerns, but the other family members. Its a constant battle that my relationship has to endure, with them expecting an immediate yes to each and every financial request made by them. Even more in these harder financial times. But I stand firm, always saying no. In the past, over a few years, I've been more than generous with my help, but that help was given freely and without request. They never asking for, nor expecting, anything from me. But now? After all the brothers and sisters are married and have kids and the additional costs incurred? My friend is under the strict orders of not ever passing on one of their constant requests for help. This is difficult for her, as the loyalty she feels towards her family, same as an Egyptian man would, far outweighs the chance of a refusal from me. So she still hints, although now vaguely disguised as an insert into day to day conversations. But at least I know, that in her own way, she has asked, pacifying them. Many a time she has stated that this is bad, that they are greedy, but, what is, is. As I've stated before, invite an Egyptian to your table, you have to make certain that you have enough seats for the rest of the family.

[mom2daisy]

Thank you to all for your replies and advice. Obviously, I should have given a bit more information...

Yes, I have visited him and his family and they are all lovely <3 Yes, we have an Orfi marriage. In September we're making it official at the embassy in Cairo <3

Nasser has been to the embassy office in Luxor but he's not been getting the answer I wanted - LOL So, I thought I'd reach out here and get your thoughts. Maybe this is a Luxor office interpretation?

[HEPZIBAH]

Thank you to all for your replies and advice. Obviously, I should have given a bit more information...

Yes, I have visited him and his family and they are all lovely <3 Yes, we have an Orfi marriage. In September we're making it official at the embassy in Cairo <3

Nasser has been to the embassy office in Luxor but he's not been getting the answer I wanted - LOL So, I thought I'd reach out here and get your thoughts. Maybe this is a Luxor office interpretation?

Which Embassy office are you referring to? I'm surprised there are any Embassy offices i Luxor - but I could well be wrong.

I know your fiance should be the one person you should be able to trust and certainly want to trust - presumably you wouldn't be marrying him otherwise - and certainly he should be helping you through the whole process but again, please keep your wits about you and be cautious.

In answer to your original question, I would imagine that you will need to get the longest time available visa that Americans are able to get for Egypt, either in advance or on arrival, and then apply for extensions as needed. However, if you read many Egyptian focused forums you will see that getting an extension is not always an easy process these days.

[carrie]

There is no Embassy Office in Luxor, he may mean the passport office where we go to apply for an extension to the visa that you obtain on entering the country.
If I were you I would contact the Egyptian Embassy in the USA, try to get some further information from them. I suppose you think we are all being most unhelpful but for the past two years the visa situation has been in flux and no one knows if they will get a visa next time they apply.
Each and every time I go for an extension the rules have changed yet again.
I don't think that being married to an Egyptian, Orfi or Embassy marriage automatically entitles you to a visa. I don't know how old you are but you are not allowed to work here so you have to make sure that you have sufficient funds to keep yourself.
You may have met Nassar's family and they might be wonderful, trust me they always are if they think there is money to be got. I may sound cynical but I have lived here for a number of years and seen it all. Take care and trust NO ONE not even the ex pats. I wish you well in the future and hope that things do work out for you. No one on this forum wants to put obstacles in your way we just want you to take care, be sensible and keep your wallet firmly closed.

[HEPZIBAH]

I came back on just now to write another post. Carrie has saved me the time.

[Major Thom]

Oh my God another Orfi bride. Be extremely careful and take note of what you have been told in this section. There are a few happily married Western Women in Luxor but they are few and far between. Once the money has dried up and the home is built and furnished it normally out you go and my Egyptian Wife comes in. What! Egyptian Wife, oh! didn't I tell you I was married. If I want I can have a few wives......Remember it's a male dominated Country and many wives are subservient. Most of them are baby machines and slaves to the family. Sorry I like most posters lived there eight years and have seen it happen. Now I am away and enjoying life to the full.
It seems most of the posters are giving you good advice, about keeping your purse strings closed. And to be honest that is the best advice of all. Secondly is what Carrie says don't trust a sole, they are charming and slippery until the cash has gone. I even knew ex pats willing to screw you for has much as they can, normally done behind your back so you are unaware until it's too late and you have parted with your hard earned cash otpr allowance. Our last two years there were depressive we thought we pull never get away, the longer we stayed the morning re depressed we got. If you are forced into buying property at Egyptian prices ask on here what the price should be before you buy. In fact being a newbie I would ask what any price should be. My god sounds like he has a killing with a US bride, bet he is scheming already.

[Dusak]

There is no Embassy Office in Luxor, he may mean the passport office where we go to apply for an extension to the visa that you obtain on entering the country.
If I were you I would contact the Egyptian Embassy in the USA, try to get some further information from them. I suppose you think we are all being most unhelpful but for the past two years the visa situation has been in flux and no one knows if they will get a visa next time they apply.
Each and every time I go for an extension the rules have changed yet again.
I don't think that being married to an Egyptian, Orfi or Embassy marriage automatically entitles you to a visa. I don't know how old you are but you are not allowed to work here so you have to make sure that you have sufficient funds to keep yourself.
You may have met Nassar's family and they might be wonderful, trust me they always are if they think there is money to be got. I may sound cynical but I have lived here for a number of years and seen it all. Take care and trust NO ONE not even the ex pats. I wish you well in the future and hope that things do work out for you. No one on this forum wants to put obstacles in your way we just want you to take care, be sensible and keep your wallet firmly closed.

Very well stated, took the same words from my mouth, especially your last grouping. A group that can be far more harmful towards you here than the first collection. especially regarding the wallet...

[Miss scarlett]

You have received some very good advice here, and don't hesitate to ask more questions. The Egyptian men are certainly all very charming, and for many their one ambition is to bag a European/American wife. I have known a few that have married at the embassy in Cairo, hoping to start up and run a business over here, but it has not worked out. They have returned home, minus a considerable sum of cash.

I can always remember talking to one guy in Luxor, who was married to an English woman, who resided in England for much of the year, coming over to visit him during holidays. I asked him 'do you love her, or do you love her money'. He was straight with me, - he loved her money.........

A good friend of mine, when asked if she wants an Egyptian husband states 'I can't afford one, they all want a house, or hotel, and a car'.

Take the six month visa for now, but keep your wits about you. They won't always ask you directly for money, but there will be lots of suggestions of how you could help.

We all wish you well.

[Bombay]

You have received some very good advice here, and don't hesitate to ask more questions. The Egyptian men are certainly all very charming, and for many their one ambition is to bag a European/American wife. I have known a few that have married at the embassy in Cairo, hoping to start up and run a business over here, but it has not worked out. They have returned home, minus a considerable sum of cash.

I can always remember talking to one guy in Luxor, who was married to an English woman, who resided in England for much of the year, coming over to visit him during holidays. I asked him 'do you love her, or do you love her money'. He was straight with me, - he loved her money.........

A good friend of mine, when asked if she wants an Egyptian husband states 'I can't afford one, they all want a house, or hotel, and a car'.

Take the six month visa for now, but keep your wits about you. They won't always ask you directly for money, but there will be lots of suggestions of how you could help.

We all wish you well.

If you are a doctor and surgeon you could save thousands in family medical emergencies.

[Dusak]

And another tip, never make the same mistake that I did, disclosing your true identity to fellow expats, by that I mean, by example, ''I'm big lolly on L4U.'' that seem to have your own interests at heart, but in fact are only after information, not necessarily information that would be of a benefit to that person, but a valued new source of gossip. Tell lies when you are talking to these folk, you are only here for the sun and culture. and if asked, you never had an interest in a marriage to an Egyptian and never will have. But I can except that such plans are a source of personal excitement and its good to spread that good cheer around, you feel the need to talk about it, assuming that fellow English speaking expats are a trustworthy bunch. but it can have an adverse affect. You may have read what I wrote about meeting up with an old friend that I had not seen in six years at the Bombay ten years bash. Well, the things that he had heard concerning myself and intended could only raise a smile to my lips, examples of the higher levels of ridiculousness and made up assumptions. Some quit outlandish.

I'll give you a more recent example as to why it is wise to keep your thoughts and history to yourself.

A couple of days back I was at Cairo waiting for my connecting flight to Luxor, a nine hour wait. I took refuge in the smoking room with my newspaper and personal ashtray. People came and went. An oldish woman came in, sitting opposite to me. I'm not ignorant by nature, but rarely do I start a conversation with these people as they nearly always want to know the maximum about you and your life here before they leave. An example is a Jordanian man that suddenly felt the overwhelming urge to tell me all about his life in Hurghada. There was no stopping him. This lady gave the impression of being English, age around sixty ish. We caught each others eye and both smiled. That was it as far as I was concerned. She never interacted with the other smokers, just sat quietly waiting. Then in came a tall blond woman that sat next to her. She had a plastic cup with what looked like fresh orange, and over a period of time, a ready supply of miniatures in her bag which she kept adding to her cup. Eventually she struck up a conversation with the older lady. The older lady talking non stop in whispered words, the other just listening, the older lady drawing her face close to the other woman to keep her words private. It turned out that both these women were German.

As time progressed the blond woman became more intoxicated, and her speech louder. Turned out she lived in Hurghada and owned/ran a crafts teaching center. She stated that she was, or had been, married to an Egyptian. I will not relate any of the conversation these two woman had, otherwise I'm guilty of doing what I warn you not to do. But suffice is to say that when the older woman left, the drunken blond related all in English to anyone that cared to listen,that this other woman had told her about her life and the reasons as to why she was traveling in what I can only assume, she thinking, in confidence. That is why you tell no one anything about what you are thinking or considering doing with your life over here.

[Mad Dilys]

Reminds me of the time that I was chatting over a meal with a member of this forum when she confided "I'd really like to meet Mad Dilys!" she had no idea who I was.

[Mad Dilys]

PS I actually really don't care what people say about me, personally - my family is a different matter.

[Yildez]

Maybe that was me Mad Dilys If not, I echo the sentiment!! Although I have a sneaking suspicion that I met you several years ago in one of the supermarkets, when I was trying to sort out which brand of olive oil to buy!!