Crticise at your peril

[newcastle]

Rather disturbing thread that has sadly deteriorated into name calling vs a discussion of ideas, ideals, principles etc.

On another note:

I was under the impression that in Egypt one had to declare a religious affiliation - i.e. one must be Christian, Muslim, Jewish etc and to declare that one does not hold a belief in God or Allah is/was seriously frowned upon.

I'm also pretty sure that this forum is read and monitored by the powers that be often and it does make me wonder why those who are professing to be atheists are allowed to remain in the country. I do wonder why sanctions have not been brought against them as they are directly saying they believe God or Allah does not exist. I'd think that THAT would be a super big and direct insult to Islam and be quite causative for official action........

I also vaguely recall (but I'm going back many many years so I could be incorrect) a discussion with an Egyptian friend who indicated that Islam does not really recognize Hindus as their religion does not recognize ONE God as typically Hindus pray to many. The one God we were talking about was Allah. Am I correct in this? Glyph do you know? This was a long time ago.

I think you're confused. It is not an offence in Egypt to declare you are an atheist'.

It is an offence to promote atheism, or to insult the abrahamic religions.

Heaven help us if a sincerely held belief (or disbelief) is, in itself, sufficient to warrant persecution.

To discuss, to question, should not be taken as an insult...other than by bigots & the terminally stupid. There's even a concept, supported by many muslims, ijtihad

Look it up.

[Glyphdoctor]

I'm also pretty sure that this forum is read and monitored by the powers that be often and it does make me wonder why those who are professing to be atheists are allowed to remain in the country.

Because no one has made a formal complaint to the authorities about their proselytizing.

And such complaints don't need to be made by the affected parties. There was a story I heard some years ago about some foreign student who was proseletyzing to Egyptian AUC students. They went to the president of the university to report him, the head of the university not being Muslim or even Egyptian. Yet, the president duly reported the incident to the authorities as this was a violation of Egyptian law and the student was deported in less than 24 hours.

Therefore, even Keefy could report such stuff if he chose to do so and it would be acted upon. And why would someone like Keefy do so? Because otherwise he could be seen as promoting it on the site that he owns.

On another issue: I may be more educated than ST. I may even have written my PhD on the history of religions in this country, but I have decided to stand in solidarity with ST and will not lower myself to discuss these subjects with Newcastle (a man with a mystery educational background himself) anymore. It would be lowering myself not because of reasons of education, but reasons of a lack of respect on his part. The way her Catholicism is being attacked is unacceptable to me. Back in the day when I still participated in FB, I actually defriended about 3-5 people for making anti-Catholic remarks, but maybe only one for anti-Muslim remarks. While every religion has different doctrine and I may not agree with all Catholic doctrine, I believe that all religions have good as their goal and therefore I am against mocking them.

Not to mention mocking someone for their legal and much needed profession of nursing is just really really beyond any sense of decency and just a cheap shot.

I used to teach in a program where one of our rules for students was you can disagree with someone's opinion, but you don't criticize their intelligence for believing it. A rule that I completely supported and still support.

[newcastle]

I'm also pretty sure that this forum is read and monitored by the powers that be often and it does make me wonder why those who are professing to be atheists are allowed to remain in the country.

Because no one has made a formal complaint to the authorities about their proselytizing.

And such complaints don't need to be made by the affected parties. There was a story I heard some years ago about some foreign student who was proseletyzing to Egyptian AUC students. They went to the president of the university to report him, the head of the university not being Muslim or even Egyptian. Yet, the president duly reported the incident to the authorities as this was a violation of Egyptian law and the student was deported in less than 24 hours.

Therefore, even Keefy could report such stuff if he chose to do so and it would be acted upon. And why would someone like Keefy do so? Because otherwise he could be seen as promoting it on the site that he owns.

On another issue: I may be more educated than ST. I may even have written my PhD on the history of religions in this country, but I have decided to stand in solidarity with ST and will not lower myself to discuss these subjects with Newcastle (a man with a mystery educational background himself) anymore. It would be lowering myself not because of reasons of education, but reasons of a lack of respect on his part. The way her Catholicism is being attacked is unacceptable to me. Back in the day when I still participated in FB, I actually defriended about 3-5 people for making anti-Catholic remarks, but maybe only one for anti-Muslim remarks. While every religion has different doctrine and I may not agree with all Catholic doctrine, I believe that all religions have good as their goal and therefore I am against mocking them.

Not to mention mocking someone for their legal and much needed profession of nursing is just really really beyond any sense of decency and just a cheap shot.

I'd be genuinely interested to know in what way you consider I am proselytising .

The word means 'attempting to convert....'. Do you seriously think that an open discussion on respective beliefs & customs amounts to that?

You are demonstrating a ridiculously closed mind.

I challenge you to find anything I've posted which insults religion....unless you maintain that merely disagreeing with any religious concept is an 'insult'. The fact that atheism may offend your sensibilities is irrelevant.

In this thread my posts were directed at correcting ST's errors regarding christmas customs and christianity...a faith she purports to follow but of which she seems to have a very limited knowledge.

It's not uncommon for people to bridle when they're corrected on factual matters but ST then chose to launch into a tirade of foul mouthed abuse...hardly a credit to her profession.

Yes...my reference to bedpans was a cheap shot. But directed at her...not the nursing profession.

Of course it's entirely typical of you, and her, to construe it otherwise.

[A-Four]

A country like Egypt is proud of it long ancient history. In the 60's and 70's the Hollywood studios, mainly managed by Jews, brought out such epic films as the Ten Commandments etc, that although untrue, painted Egypt as a dreadful country full of slaves etc, you all know the rest.

Today, I still come across people who honestly believe it was Jewish slaves who built the pyramids, and how cruel the Egyptians were to them. As a result of such films we now see that Hollywood has released a new film stating the same old rubbish. The 'fodder' of future wars see such films and believe what they see, and further to add to this any Christian who questions such belief is reminded by their priest that they should believe, as this is part of their faith.

I worry about such films, and wonder who is really behind the $ factor in making them. Egypt, a country that is busy trying to put its nation back on a united footing has banned this new film, I as a rule do not believe in banning such things, though in this case I can see their reasons.

[newcastle]

A country like Egypt is proud of it long ancient history. In the 60's and 70's the Hollywood studios, mainly managed by Jews, brought out such epic films as the Ten Commandments etc, that although untrue, painted Egypt as a dreadful country full of slaves etc, you all know the rest.

Today, I still come across people who honestly believe it was Jewish slaves who built the pyramids, and how cruel the Egyptians were to them. As a result of such films we now see that Hollywood has released a new film stating the same old rubbish. The 'fodder' of future wars see such films and believe what they see, and further to add to this any Christian who questions such belief is reminded by their priest that they should believe, as this is part of their faith.

I worry about such films, and wonder who is really behind the $ factor in making them. Egypt, a country that is busy trying to put its nation back on a united footing has banned this new film, I as a rule do not believe in banning such things, though in this case I can see their reasons.

Of course the movie was all about $$$$$$$$......aren't all movies nowadays?

The authorities would seem to have a poor view of the intelligence of the prospective Egyptian audience if they think this kind of stuff denigrates Egypt or the Egyptians and would cause untold offence.

The vast majority of the population would have neither the inclination, nor the means, to see the film.

What the more educated, more sophisticated, element of the population makes of the ban....goodness knows. The Egyptians I know would take the movie with a sizeable pinch of salt.... a self-indulgent piece of fiction....but with some stunning cinematography.

I wouldn't be surprised if it got more clandestine viewings as a result of the furore.

[Who2]

At this point on the above topic, I wish to declare my belief in a supreme creator.
Now, I also believe that in past history a few men & women have reached a personal self development above that of the norm and and such have been recognised by lesser mortals and I do mean lesser mortals.
These few but significant mortals have in their own way try to lead the masses out of their mire.
In no significant order….
Mohammed. pbuh
Jesus the Christ.
Shiva & Krishna.
Gautama Buddha.
Akhenaten
Confucius
Zoroaster
I have probably missed a couple and would probably call myself a Deist, but also have a firm belief that the so called followers (sheep) of this planets religions are so far removed from it's founders ethics & ideals and have little interest in trying to attain that which the founders achieved.
To repeat: I have a firm belief in a supreme intelligence whatever one wishes to name it….

[Glyphdoctor]

Law no. 58 of 1937. Article 98 (f) of the Penal Code, as amended in 2006 is as follows:

Whoever exploits religion in order to promote extremist ideologies by word of mouth, in writing or in any other manner, with a view to stirring up sedition, disparaging or contempt of any divine religion or its adherents, or prejudicing national unity shall be punished with imprisonment between six months and five years or paying a fine of at least 500 Egyptian pounds.

[newcastle]

Law no. 58 of 1937. Article 98 (f) of the Penal Code, as amended in 2006 is as follows:

Whoever exploits religion in order to promote extremist ideologies by word of mouth, in writing or in any other manner, with a view to stirring up sedition, disparaging or contempt of any divine religion or its adherents, or prejudicing national unity shall be punished with imprisonment between six months and five years or paying a fine of at least 500 Egyptian pounds.

[A-Four]

A country like Egypt is proud of it long ancient history. In the 60's and 70's the Hollywood studios, mainly managed by Jews, brought out such epic films as the Ten Commandments etc, that although untrue, painted Egypt as a dreadful country full of slaves etc, you all know the rest.

Today, I still come across people who honestly believe it was Jewish slaves who built the pyramids, and how cruel the Egyptians were to them. As a result of such films we now see that Hollywood has released a new film stating the same old rubbish. The 'fodder' of future wars see such films and believe what they see, and further to add to this any Christian who questions such belief is reminded by their priest that they should believe, as this is part of their faith.

I worry about such films, and wonder who is really behind the $ factor in making them. Egypt, a country that is busy trying to put its nation back on a united footing has banned this new film, I as a rule do not believe in banning such things, though in this case I can see their reasons.

Of course the movie was all about $$$$$$$$......aren't all movies nowadays?.

No, you do not get out of that one so easy. YOU know very well what I mean here, more and more films are made these days, where we should be asking, who pays the money and what propaganda can be achieved as a 'soft' attack on nations that perhaps don't or no longer follow the so called 'true light of the West', that thinks it still has the power to influence its people.

Always question what is not clear.

[newcastle]

A country like Egypt is proud of it long ancient history. In the 60's and 70's the Hollywood studios, mainly managed by Jews, brought out such epic films as the Ten Commandments etc, that although untrue, painted Egypt as a dreadful country full of slaves etc, you all know the rest.

Today, I still come across people who honestly believe it was Jewish slaves who built the pyramids, and how cruel the Egyptians were to them. As a result of such films we now see that Hollywood has released a new film stating the same old rubbish. The 'fodder' of future wars see such films and believe what they see, and further to add to this any Christian who questions such belief is reminded by their priest that they should believe, as this is part of their faith.

I worry about such films, and wonder who is really behind the $ factor in making them. Egypt, a country that is busy trying to put its nation back on a united footing has banned this new film, I as a rule do not believe in banning such things, though in this case I can see their reasons.

Of course the movie was all about $$$$$$$$......aren't all movies nowadays?.

No, you do not get out of that one so easy. YOU know very well what I mean here, more and more films are made these days, where we should be asking, who pays the money and what propaganda can be achieved as a 'soft' attack on nations that perhaps don't or no longer follow the so called 'true light of the West', that thinks it still has the power to influence its people.

Always question what is not clear.

I must confess I'd not spotted your "conspiracy" theory.

Not one I ascribe to.

[Glyphdoctor]

more and more films are made these days, where we should be asking, who pays the money and what propaganda can be achieved as a 'soft' attack on nations that perhaps don't or no longer follow the so called 'true light of the West', that thinks it still has the power to influence its people.

If you do your homework and see what ONE Hollywood film managed to get permission to be filmed in Egypt in the past 2 or 3 decades and then read up on the propaganda value of that film, you will see the tip of the iceberg of something quite interesting, especially in light of who had to give the green light.

On the same topic, I once saw a mummy film with a well-known Hollywood actor with evil crafty Arabs in it that did not paint modern day Egyptians in a good light. But it had all the trappings of a second rate Hollywood film. And then the credits rolled and I discovered it was actually an Israeli production made in Israel.

[A-Four]

'Lets be thankful of our ancestors who were willing to question religious dogma,......or we'd still be running around in animal skin' [ Quote - Newcastle two days ago. ]

Are you sure they had not simply heard "conspiracy theories", that eventually bring about YOUR free thinking of today.

[Who2]

At this point on the above topic, I wish to declare my belief in a supreme creator.
Now, I also believe that in past history a few men & women have reached a personal self development above that of the norm and and such have been recognised by lesser mortals and I do mean lesser mortals.
These few but significant mortals have in their own way try to lead the masses out of their mire.
In no significant order….
Mohammed. pbuh
Jesus the Christ.
Shiva & Krishna.
Gautama Buddha.
Akhenaten
Confucius
Zoroaster
I have probably missed a couple and would probably call myself a Deist, but also have a firm belief that the so called followers (sheep) of this planets religions are so far removed from it's founders ethics & ideals and have little interest in trying to attain that which the founders achieved.
To repeat: I have a firm belief in a supreme intelligence whatever one wishes to name it….

Ps: Whoever exploits religion in order to promote extremist ideologies by word of mouth, in writing or in any other manner, with a view to stirring up sedition, disparaging or contempt of any divine religion or its adherents, or prejudicing national unity shall be punished with imprisonment between six months and five years or paying a fine of at least 500 Egyptian pounds.

"Let me make it quite clear here and now, that I condone none of the following: With a view to stirring up sedition, disparaging or contempt of any divine religion or its adherents, or prejudicing national unity.....
"I just wish the 'adherents would utilize their old grey matter a wee bit more... 'baa

[newcastle]

'Lets be thankful of our ancestors who were willing to question religious dogma,......or we'd still be running around in animal skin' [ Quote - Newcastle two days ago. ]

Are you sure they had not simply heard "conspiracy theories", that eventually bring about YOUR free thinking of today.

Well if you consider the scientific contradiction of the religious assertion that the earth was the centre of the universe a conspiracy......

Then again....I haven't a clue what you're on about

[A-Four]

'Lets be thankful of our ancestors who were willing to question religious dogma,......or we'd still be running around in animal skin' [ Quote - Newcastle two days ago. ]

Are you sure they had not simply heard "conspiracy theories", that eventually bring about YOUR free thinking of today.

Well if you consider the scientific contradiction of the religious assertion that the earth was the centre of the universe a conspiracy......

Then again....I haven't a clue what you're on about

Then again,.....these are the words of man in the interpretation of a faith, perhaps a conspiracy theory, who knows, but today we still have people who believe that anything from the status quo, as they see it, can only be a conspiracy theory.

I'm sure for certain, you still haven't a clue, but do please keep to the status quo, as I'm sure, for certain, you will.

[Bullet Magnet]

A little understanding... A message from Y.T. Maye this helps one understand..
I never could with the Education I was forced to adopt at very young age..

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