The Clueless in Denial

[Glyphdoctor]

In order to not hijack another thread, I am posting this article here:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott ... on-4199107

What part of Egypt's marriage, parentage, visa and custody laws do these people not grasp and how many years have they had to come to terms with those facts? There is no chance in hell they will be able to kidnap these children to Scotland, yet they will continue to beat their heads against a wall as if they can.

[Dusak]

In order to not hijack another thread, I am posting this article here:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott ... on-4199107

What part of Egypt's marriage, parentage, visa and custody laws do these people not grasp and how many years have they had to come to terms with those facts? There is no chance in hell they will be able to kidnap these children to Scotland, yet they will continue to beat their heads against a wall as if they can.

Never say never, anything is possible given the right telephone number.

[Glyphdoctor]

Yeah, but they AREN'T his kids under the Egyptian law. And they aren't entitled to British citizenship even if the British government considered them his kids because he isn't married to the mother, so why would either country get involved in the matter? At best they are Sudanese citizens, at worst they are stateless. It's a sad situation for the kids, but that's just how it is. Products of two irresponsible adults. And grandma is no help. She reveals to the world they never had a marriage, so they can't even fake a backdated orfi at this point. And if he hopes she just gets deported to Sudan, she may wish all she got was an Egyptian prison now that she has been revealed to engaged in an out-of-wedlock relationship once the Sudanese authorities get their hands on her, that is if the Egyptians don't bring charges against her for it first.

[Scottishtourist]

There are a lot of stupid Scottish people GD!
They think they are invincible.They think that Scots law(entirely separate from English/UK law)will prevail,and all they have to do is make their voice heard!

This granny is an idiot if she thinks her one lone voice will make any difference.It won't!

Here in Scotland we have a saying.."you makes your bed,so you lie in it."
I too feel sorry for the children..but there's no chance they'll ever be able to come to Scotland,no matter what the granny says!

[Bearded Brian]

And he now needs to get back to the UK for treatment - hope he's got the money to pay for it.

[Scottishtourist]

And he now needs to get back to the UK for treatment - hope he's got the money to pay for it.

He won't BB!
It'll be same old scenario.He's British citizen,no insurance,etc,etc.
We'll tend his wounds,listen to his bleating heart,nod in the right places!
We'll patch him up for free!Cos he got no-one else to turn to!
He so loved Egypt..my arse!
He'll pay nothing..look on it as his right..and say thank you and **** you.We're mugs!!

[Glyphdoctor]

He was working in the oil industry here. I doubt it was about love of Egypt, and more about MONEY.

As for the Sudanese girlfriend, seems it was no secret to her brother that she was shacked up with a Scot and pumping out babies. Makes you wonder whether it was about MONEY for her and maybe her brother too.

[Who2]

He was working in the oil industry here. I doubt it was about love of Egypt, and more about MONEY.

As for the Sudanese girlfriend, seems it was no secret to her brother that she was shacked up with a Scot and pumping out babies. Makes you wonder whether it was about MONEY for her and maybe her brother too.

My god how could you ? where is the romance and love in your life ?
Sounds like a marriage made in heaven to me, ginger headed 'fuzzy wuzzy's la whaala!
Oh 'for the more anally PC amongst you..
ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_Wuzzy ...

[Dusak]

He was working in the oil industry here. I doubt it was about love of Egypt, and more about MONEY.

As for the Sudanese girlfriend, seems it was no secret to her brother that she was shacked up with a Scot and pumping out babies. Makes you wonder whether it was about MONEY for her and maybe her brother too.

Or perhaps it was just love between two people that did it the best way that was open to them both at the time. Whatever the reasons, they have children, innocent of their parents bonding, it is they who will suffer the most. And perhaps the parents as well. Many a crime of passion has been produced with the couple getting back together again. All we have is a news report, and we all tend to dismiss those, do we not. And is not a mother entitled to plead for help towards her sons predicament? Its a better way than just saying ''f*** 'em, they made their own bed so...

[Glyphdoctor]

Dusak, that may very well be the case. But that is exactly why they are clueless and in denial. Because it is a dangerous and potentially self-destructive way to live in this country. And I am not talking about the stabbing part of it at all.

[Dusak]

Dusak, that may very well be the case. But that is exactly why they are clueless and in denial. Because it is a dangerous and potentially self-destructive way to live in this country. And I am not talking about the stabbing part of it at all.

Yes but at the same time it is human to ere. We all have made and taken the wrong decisions in our lives, usually we learn from those mistakes. But this example was a learning curve from day one until it went pear shaped. It does not mean that they are or were in denial or clueless. If I knew then what I know now I would of rented instead of bought. It is nigh imposable to see all that the future could bring based on a singular decision.

[lotusflower]

Yeah, but they AREN'T his kids under the Egyptian law. And they aren't entitled to British citizenship even if the British government considered them his kids because he isn't married to the mother, so why would either country get involved in the matter? At best they are Sudanese citizens, at worst they are stateless. It's a sad situation for the kids, but that's just how it is. Products of two irresponsible adults. And grandma is no help. She reveals to the world they never had a marriage, so they can't even fake a backdated orfi at this point. And if he hopes she just gets deported to Sudan, she may wish all she got was an Egyptian prison now that she has been revealed to engaged in an out-of-wedlock relationship once the Sudanese authorities get their hands on her, that is if the Egyptians don't bring charges against her for it first.

Children born in Egypt are deemed Egyptian citizens...the children could not have been born in any other country otherwise they would have travelled on passports into Egypt. Because the father is a British citizenship the children should be entitled to British citizenship also and a passport for each provided they produce a birth certificate for each of the children, regardless of where there were born. I suspect they were actually born in Egypt.

is it a crime in Egypt to have children and not be married when both parents are non Egyptian?. Why would the Egyptian Authorities bring charges against her for being in an out of wedlock relationship? Explain please.

[Glyphdoctor]

Check your facts before you post, because they aren't correct.

Look up the 2008 child law. Since they have claimed to be the parents of the children, and they were born out of wedlock, their birth CANNOT be registered. It sounds from her name that she is Muslim and probably he wasn't, so therefore there is no possibility they could have married and thus neither parent's name can be recorded on a birth certificate.

The only ones entitled to citizenship are those born to Egyptian citizens or if their parents are completely unknown. They could have gotten citizenship if they had abandoned them at a police station.

[lotusflower]

Yeah, but they AREN'T his kids under the Egyptian law. And they aren't entitled to British citizenship even if the British government considered them his kids because he isn't married to the mother, so why would either country get involved in the matter? At best they are Sudanese citizens, at worst they are stateless. It's a sad situation for the kids, but that's just how it is. Products of two irresponsible adults. And grandma is no help. She reveals to the world they never had a marriage, so they can't even fake a backdated orfi at this point. And if he hopes she just gets deported to Sudan, she may wish all she got was an Egyptian prison now that she has been revealed to engaged in an out-of-wedlock relationship once the Sudanese authorities get their hands on her, that is if the Egyptians don't bring charges against her for it first.

is it a crime in Egypt to have children and not be married when both parents are non Egyptian?. Why would the Egyptian Authorities bring charges against her for being in an out of wedlock relationship? Explain please.

I am asking this question if it is a crime or not where both parents are not Egyptian

[Glyphdoctor]

Children born in Egypt are deemed Egyptian citizens...the children could not have been born in any other country otherwise they would have travelled on passports into Egypt. Because the father is a British citizenship the children should be entitled to British citizenship also and a passport for each provided they produce a birth certificate for each of the children, regardless of where there were born.

All of this is wrong. Some children in Egypt are deemed Egyptian citizens-those born to Egyptians and those whose parents are unknown. Egyptian law will not recognize him as the father of either of the children and will not issue a birth certificate with his name on it, therefore, legally, they are not his children under Egyptian law so they are not entitled to citizenship through him because there is no way for him to prove they are his children.

[Glyphdoctor]

Having a child is not a crime, it's the conception part that is the problem. However, children born out of wedlock cannot be registered. It has nothing to do with nationality, only religion and marital status.

[lotusflower]

I was doing a little bit of research on this and apparently the births of the children can be registered at the British Embassy under their Foreign Births abroad section and thereafter obtain passports.

You are right they could never be Egyptian citizens..

but are you saying that one can get a prison sentence if a foreigner and his girlfriend are living together in Egypt and not married - the common term now is "partner" and not husband..

[Glyphdoctor]

From the UK in Egypt website

Registering a birth

Documents required:

Completed birth registration application form
Ministry of Health birth certificate + hospital/doctor’s notification of birth
Both parents full long version birth certificate
Both parents passports , and/or Egyptian ID card where applicable
If married, parents marriage certificate
Parents’ registration/naturalisation certificate, where applicable

All these documents must be original documents, not photocopies.

Any documents not in English, need to be translated by one of the Embassy’s approved translators.

In certain cases we may need to ask for additional documentation to satisfy the claim to nationality.
Please note that registration of a British child’s birth is not obligatory and needs to be done during the first year of the child’s birth.

If they couldn't get a ministry of health birth certificate, as I explained above, they can't get UK citizenship.

This case was and is hopeless since the birth of the children.

As for your question, are you asking if non-Egyptians are above the law? And who cares whether some people like the word "partner." It has no meaning in Egypt. You are either a husband, or you aren't.

[Dusak]

Children born in Egypt are deemed Egyptian citizens...the children could not have been born in any other country otherwise they would have travelled on passports into Egypt. Because the father is a British citizenship the children should be entitled to British citizenship also and a passport for each provided they produce a birth certificate for each of the children, regardless of where there were born.

All of this is wrong. Some children in Egypt are deemed Egyptian citizens-those born to Egyptians and those whose parents are unknown. Egyptian law will not recognize him as the father of either of the children and will not issue a birth certificate with his name on it, therefore, legally, they are not his children under Egyptian law so they are not entitled to citizenship through him because there is no way for him to prove they are his children.

What about DNA profiling?

[newcastle]

DNA profiling?

http://www.irinnews.org/report/26290/eg ... g-proposed

Maybe GD knows if this proposed law was enacted? I suspect it wasn't.