Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by newcastle » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:37 am

Dusak wrote:
Major Thom wrote:
She did say money was mentioned to gain citizenship, which she already new about due to our conversations, but two on the panel stated Egyptian citizenship's should not be for sale at any cost.
Buying citizenship is becoming a worldwide phenomenon.....and Egypt is cheap compared to some. But then, as they say, you get what you pay for :lol:

Dusak may be tempted by Thailand. I believe they charge around $4000 ....per annum.

I think Cyprus charge €2 million.

New Zealand's really expensive..... $10 million.

I imagine the Egyptian scheme is to enable foreigners to buy large amounts of land and might be of some interest to Gulf arabs.



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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by newcastle » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:14 am

BENNU wrote:
Major Thom wrote: what rights does a person living in Egypt have over a tourist
None.

Clearly, some foreigners believe that they are more worthy ........
I call it the "Lord Palmerston syndrome".

The expectation that Her Britannic Majesty will despatch a gun boat to enforce the perceived rights of Brits settling abroad.

Aaaah......the good old days :ct

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Horus » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:35 am

newcastle wrote:I'm not sure you're even safe from expulsion in the country of your birth. I don't recall Idi Amin was too bothered whether the Asians in his sights were born in Uganda or elsewhere.

Even the UK is not above removing citizenship from "undesirables".....although they might have issues under EU laws if it leaves them stateless. Well...for the time being. ;)
Wrong, they all had British citizenship, hence the UK had to accept them as did the other countries who had people entitled to their own citizenship status. The exception was about 23000 people who held Ugandan citizenship or were otherwise stateless, these were included in the original expulsion plan but this was later rescinded, so no one who held Ugandan citizenship was expelled.
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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by newcastle » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:07 pm

Horus wrote:
newcastle wrote:I'm not sure you're even safe from expulsion in the country of your birth. I don't recall Idi Amin was too bothered whether the Asians in his sights were born in Uganda or elsewhere.

Even the UK is not above removing citizenship from "undesirables".....although they might have issues under EU laws if it leaves them stateless. Well...for the time being. ;)
Wrong, they all had British citizenship, hence the UK had to accept them as did the other countries who had people entitled to their own citizenship status. The exception was about 23000 people who held Ugandan citizenship or were otherwise stateless, these were included in the original expulsion plan but this was later rescinded, so no one who held Ugandan citizenship was expelled.
Read what I wrote again.

I said being BORN in Uganda did not necessarily mean you wouldn't be expelled if your family was of asian origin.

Being born in Uganda does not automatically entitle you to Ugandan citizenship.

The fact that many of the deportees had British or Commonwealth citizenship, or equivalent rights of residence, meant they had somewhere to go....but doesn't affect the point I was making, namely that being born in Uganda didn't necessarily give you the right to stay there.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Major Thom » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:32 pm

In Cyprus 22 Euro's for the first 5 years and then 20 Euro's after 5 years for your permanent residency owner of property or not, how civil is that. Next year the New Marina at Potima Bay starts, contract have been signed. Marina for over 300 yachts plus marina penthouses and villa's. Also 6 story executive homes. Sign of the times I am afraid and a good sign of a buoyant economy. No signs of new Government buildings, cable cars, or any other sort of rubbish.

You know I do decry Luxor and know I am guilty of it, however they really need to think things through before wasting money. Wasted money does not bring forward hard cash to get the place out of the doldrums.

Newc. You could say that being born in Egypt does not safeguard you a real life or peace, in fact it does the opposite, virtually guarantee's you sometime in your life you will be subject to imprisonment, and most of your life you will be in poverty and living under oppression.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Horus » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:01 pm

I think Newcastle that you are quite aware of the point I was trying to make, in other words you cannot be booted out of the country of which you are a citizen by birth, of course that would only apply if you happen to live in a democratic country that respects your human rights, unlike the country where you choose to reside. Bringing things like children of foreign nationals born to them whilst they themselves are not citizens is just clouding the issue even though they too would be granted citizenship in the UK and many other countries around the world for that matter. Most Western countries will confer citizenship on children born on their soil, my point being (and you well know it) is that if you are born in the UK then you cannot be booted out and made stateless, but no doubt you will Google it and find some million to one obscure example to prove you are right. Being granted citizenship in countries such as Egypt would be as easily overturned when the need arose as it was to nationalise foreign assets under Nasser 8)
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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Hafiz » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:45 pm

All of you know the truth of the situation, a truth that goes back to 52/56.

The truth is that there are theatrical promises and legislation in relation to money/assets followed by quiet mechanisms that makes it thin. Lost documents, incomplete registrations, inspectors that say you are not meeting regulations, requests for 'payments', attempts to go to the courts followed by years of delay followed by a court that gives an irrational decision. Added to this are immigration issues which can lead to demands that you leave. All of this is a two lifetimes pattern of political, legal, police etc behavior which amounts to little more than extortion/making money out of others and which explains that no multinational has invested serious money in Egypt for 2 generations.

For example there is not a single overseas investor/major contract that says other than all commercial disputes shall not be settled by an Egyptian court but rather by international arbitration (where Egypt looses in the billions) or in an English court. No one with more than 5 dollars trusts the Egyptian system and never has.

Of course the small personal problem issues are awful but even multinationals have had problems with this Egyptian exploitative system. To take an important but not directly relevant issue. Egypt is one of the very worst places on earth for breaking copyright/ stealing others ideas and using them to make money for domestic companies. There are decades of complaints but no guilt,apology or fixing it. Fixing it is important if anyone with idea is going to invest in Egypt - for example on the pharmacological industry where there behaviors, often involving military companies, is appalling. It is is stealing.

My point is that it doesn't matter what's on the statute book the administration and judicial systems are the reality and the moral values of those systems are sometimes - what's yours is mine - in whole or part. In other situations its whats Egyptian is preferred to all other nationalities.

Who thinks that any formal law on residency/investment should be considered on just its words rather in the context of those dozens of informal and formal legal,bureaucratic and police games which will defeat your ostensible formal entitlements under that law.

As I said earlier the 50's and 60's involved one of the greatest 'transfers' of wealth in modern history from tens of thousands who had made it to Nassar's mates who could barely count it and definitely not manage it. That people should feel proud of gaining wealth in such a way and no guilt reveals a sharp and ugly aspect of Egyptian morality which persists unreconstructed to this day.

In any event the new citizenship/investment proposal is the worst in the world and what bureaucratic idiot who put it forward should be fired. Simply many countries require investment in that country to gain you citizenship/permanent residency. The amounts vary and, oddly, the best countries in the world like the USA are half the price of horrible Egypt. Where the Egypt system is a full lunatic system is that the 750,000 or whatever is totally forfeited to the government/army panama plc. There is no government in the entire world, including the Caribbean buckets, that takes your investment and doesn't give it back. It is insane program made worse by the fact that Egypt has close to nothing positive to offer new citizens/permanent residents/investees and is close to theft. Other than organized criminals there were be few who will find this attractive.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by A-Four » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:02 pm

I read with interest what you write about the old days here Hafiz, when Nasser came to power and all those wonderful apartments mainly in Zamalek were owned by Europeans, not to mention Alex, after which the idol rich or I like to call the 97% taxed Brits as they were then, moved off to Beirut.

Things have changed, these days there is an awful amount of $ spinning around the world, and the last place they want the cash to be is in their own country. The oil rich Arab world is awash with the stuff, and they are all desperate to get it out.

The world is changing and very,very fast.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by newcastle » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:44 pm

Horus wrote:I think Newcastle that you are quite aware of the point I was trying to make, in other words you cannot be booted out of the country of which you are a citizen by birth, of course that would only apply if you happen to live in a democratic country that respects your human rights, unlike the country where you choose to reside. Bringing things like children of foreign nationals born to them whilst they themselves are not citizens is just clouding the issue even though they too would be granted citizenship in the UK and many other countries around the world for that matter. Most Western countries will confer citizenship on children born on their soil, my point being (and you well know it) is that if you are born in the UK then you cannot be booted out and made stateless, but no doubt you will Google it and find some million to one obscure example to prove you are right. Being granted citizenship in countries such as Egypt would be as easily overturned when the need arose as it was to nationalise foreign assets under Nasser 8)
Aaaah.....it's now "citizen by birth" rather than simply "born in".

Excuse me if I'm not a mind reader.

If you'd been more clear at the outset....... :urm:

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by A-Four » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:31 pm

My dear Horus, for the sake of your own blood pressure, I advise you not to enter into any detailed subject who goes under the name of Newcastle. I assure you he very often gets his information direct fron the Internet, which very often is simply wrong.

I and others have trapped him on a number of occasions, but the best and last was to do with Girten College, I mentioned that Sandi Toksvig attended that college the same time as another mentioned person. It is well known these days that Girten is an international intelligence training centre. When Mss Toksvig 'qualified' she remained at Girten, for some time after this period, however, Wiki don't tell you this, ........well it wouldn't, would it.

I thought you had learnt your lesson during the Brexit debate on here. For myself I do not even read his posts, and have not done so for almost two years now. :wi .

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Adamantium » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:24 am

Dream a dream of times gone by. A time when the idea of living in Egypt was a dream. Buying a property only for it to be taken the dream is shattered. I had on occasion had it suggested I buy an apartment. What good if it is taken? I only reflect on the sort of people who scam tourists. I mean the well organised scams. Scams happen. Welcome to Egypt. You tourist, me Egyptian. Get ready to part with your money. My point is this. Can an Egyptian care if he is gaining money immorality when they have a government as does the same?
The people live by example. If the government can do it then tourists are fair game.

Perhaps they no longer see it as scamming just a way of life.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Major Thom » Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:43 am

Good point Adamantium, what you say is rife throughout the Country...

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by newcastle » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:53 am

A-Four wrote:My dear Horus, for the sake of your own blood pressure, I advise you not to enter into any detailed subject who goes under the name of Newcastle. I assure you he very often gets his information direct fron the Internet, which very often is simply wrong.

I and others have trapped him on a number of occasions, but the best and last was to do with Girten College, I mentioned that Sandi Toksvig attended that college the same time as another mentioned person. It is well known these days that Girten is an international intelligence training centre. When Mss Toksvig 'qualified' she remained at Girten, for some time after this period, however, Wiki don't tell you this, ........well it wouldn't, would it.

I thought you had learnt your lesson during the Brexit debate on here. For myself I do not even read his posts, and have not done so for almost two years now. :wi .
On the other hand, I read your posts ....for amusement rather than edification!. Strange how the Egyptian authorities are not beating a path to your door for advice or for your latest pearls of wisdom on managing the economy :lol:

By the way , it's GIRTON, not Girten.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by newcastle » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:20 am

Hafiz wrote:All of you know the truth of the situation, a truth that goes back to 52/56.


My point is that it doesn't matter what's on the statute book the administration and judicial systems are the reality and the moral values of those systems are sometimes - what's yours is mine - in whole or part. In other situations its whats Egyptian is preferred to all other nationalities.

Good point!

Whatever view one takes on the morality of the system - which affects Egyptians without wealth or connections just as severely - you have to wonder at the credulity - or stupidity - of foreigners who, notwithstanding the risks, continue to invest in, or lend to, Egypt.

As you say, it's not as if matters have changed significantly since 1952.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Dusak » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:22 pm

No matter what the reputation of a country is, it will always be potential profits before people.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Major Thom » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:05 am

That seems to be the mentality "D"

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Angela » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:42 am

I've been married to my husband, Egyptian for 18 years and we own property in Luxor. I was only 23 when we met and him a few years older. We lived in the UK and worked and saved for several years, bought some land and a built a house (not a flamboyant villa) where we live and are happy with our two children. Our life isn't for everyone nor would I suggest it is. Around the time of the revolution my husband was concerned that something could happen like in the 50's where foreigners were thrown out of the country and started the process of getting me Egyptian citizenship which I've now had for a few years. This does make me feel a bit more secure especially as we both now have dual citizenship so can both move freely between countries as and when we want. When you are married to an Egyptian, if he dies and you are different religions there are also lot of other things to consider such as Christians not being able to inherit from a Muslim. Basically it is all a potential minefield. I've gone through quite a few stressful moments in Luxor with the 'ways' here but fortunately have a husband at my side who I completely trust who I know has mine and our children's best interests at heart.

Why am I telling you this you may ask? Recently I've seen a couple of foreigners buying property and I want to scream 'Don't do it!'. Not because my own experience has been terrible, albeit stressful but because I know that as a foreigner living in Egypt and 'owning' property you have no rights and they can take it away from you at the drop of a hat, or a change in president, or minister or whatever. It just gives zero security to own a property then make you leave every 6 months with no guarantee that you will be allowed back in when you try to return. When I see Red Sea Real Estate agencies advertising villas and apartments for sale, it makes me so angry. The estate agent will tell the purchaser that it will be easy for them to get residency based on property ownership only to find that they have to jump through hoops to get it..even if they do ever manage to get it. If you buy land or try to build every person you encounter will be trying to make extra cash from you, whether it's buying a few ton of steel or bags of cement. Egyptians are not immune to this opportunism, people try it on in exactly the same way but the difference is that they read, write and speak the language, have a better idea of market prices and more importantly understand every aspect of the culture and how things works. Without that you are just a sitting duck relying on your good friend 'Ali' or whoever to do the best job for you. Just a nightmare. Seriously if anyone is reading this and thinking of buying or building here, don't do it.

I know that there are people that still 'purchase' government land, which basically means they pay the existing tenant farmer an agreed sum to them take over the land which they then often build on, even if they shouldn't. Apparently there is a new law about to come in to play, whereby if a tenant farmer wants to give up his tenancy, he has no right to sell it onto anyone, it has to go back to the government who will then put it up for auction. I also heard that this could possibly be backdated so people who have paid a tenant farmer to take their land could have it seized and put into Government hands. This was on a news report on Egyptian TV but writing this just to give an example of how quickly things can change.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by newcastle » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:38 am

Good post Angela.

Notwithstanding that the risks for foreigners of buying property have been apparent for decades, there's still a surprising number who - lured by "cheap" prices and a favourable exchange rate - opt for their retirement "home in the sun" in Egypt.

And of course the agents, brokers, developers - even the lawyers (who ought to know better) - seldom, if ever, mention the potential pitfalls.

When you can buy an apartment in Hurghada on a run of the mill credit card it's open season for an army of scammers aided and abetted by a cloud of "facilitators" who all want their cut of the deal. No wonder property development is a significant element of Egypt's GDP.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Yildez » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:47 am

Excellent post Angela, thank you! Some of it - especially about building - applies equally to Turkey, although Residence Permits are easily acquired, unlike Egypt. For every story of foreigners being ripped off over building/land purchase in Egypt, there are twice as many here in Turkey, sadly. I ALWAYS advise people to rent initially, most ignore me :urm:

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Who2 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:47 am

Quote: " on a run of the mill credit card it's open season for an army of scammers"

Just like the Tenerife Time Share scam people still think, they were on a winner.
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One of my girlfriends parents had 5 there 5 ? la whaala!... 8)
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