Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

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Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Dusak » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:51 am

My friend has just been telling me about an Egyptian TV program her and the family watched the other night. The panel consisted of government officials. They stated that all foreigners living here would be required to leave the country every six months. This is because, as they discussed, if the foreigners could afford to live here, they could afford to leave twice a year. This money would help to finance the visa system. Plus bring extra revenue in for the government, presumably via Egypt Air.

They also stated that any foreigner that was asked to leave the country for whatever reasons, their property would automatically become the property of the state. No counter claims would be entered into, presumably from family not living here.

Also no foreigner would be allowed to ''own'' a business here, but are quite welcome to run a business. I'm guessing that they mean they can't own the actual premises the business is operating from.

The program didn't state if these new rules are to be implemented, or are now in force. Suppose like everything else here, we will just have to wait until it happens.


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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Who2 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:16 am

Well, it's a good job I sold my property to my mate Nick then.... 8)
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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by newcastle » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:54 am

Dusak wrote:My friend has just been telling me about an Egyptian TV program her and the family watched the other night. The panel consisted of government officials. They stated that all foreigners living here would be required to leave the country every six months. This is because, as they discussed, if the foreigners could afford to live here, they could afford to leave twice a year. This money would help to finance the visa system. Plus bring extra revenue in for the government, presumably via Egypt Air.

They also stated that any foreigner that was asked to leave the country for whatever reasons, their property would automatically become the property of the state. No counter claims would be entered into, presumably from family not living here.

Also no foreigner would be allowed to ''own'' a business here, but are quite welcome to run a business. I'm guessing that they mean they can't own the actual premises the business is operating from.

The program didn't state if these new rules are to be implemented, or are now in force. Suppose like everything else here, we will just have to wait until it happens.
It's good to know that a group of idiots spouting drivel isn't a phenomenon restricted to UK daytime TV.

Spare me! :vs

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Major Thom » Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:37 pm

It had to come!!

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Hafiz » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:06 pm

Sort of.

Egypt has form for throwing 'outsiders' out and stealing all their property in bad times. Jews, French, Brits, Turks, Syrians, Lebanese, Italians and others were kicked out at very, very short notice in the 50's and early 60's with only a small suitcase, a small amount of cash, following a full body inspection and after being forced to 'assign' their property/business to the state/locals. Many had their citizenship cancelled and were stateless.

I read a sad memoir of a woman who came back after about 40 years to the large family house in Maadi and found it owned/occupied by their former guard/gardener and his family and of course now falling down. The guard had been a nobody who got a huge asset through no effort.

This period is not well studied for a number of reasons including the absolute closing of the Egyptian archive.

On the other hand there are hundreds of thousands descendants of the evicted now in the west whose hate for Egypt is extreme. A number in Australia. What is odd is the lack of guilt or even embarrassment in Egypt for what was done. Oddly the Camp David required a system of compensation for evicted Egyptians. Egypt signed this but refused to implement it.

An aside. al Ahram was a great nationalist and anti-British serious and intellectual newspaper under Syrian-Lebanese ownership. It was seized and stolen following which it has become a gross, lying, propaganda rag.

My point isn't about money its about Egypt's willingness to toss people out even if they are a large proportion of the doctors, lawyers, architects, accountants, bankers and business managers and even if they were great nationalists. What this is about is hard to work out but the tossing of 'foreigners' gave money and jobs to 'Egyptian' third raters and those felt more self-important once capable people had left. A deal of Egypt's subsequent dismal economic performance has to do with that skill and entrepreneurial gap.

As I say its hard to now because scholarship on this period, as with today, is zero. I think there is no country other than the beggars that has so few histories of any worth on the last 70 years and what there is is all western. That oddity tells you a lot and not just about the tossings.

In a strange but secret way its happening at the moment. The physical and financial assets of the Brotherhood and thousands of Brotherhood members are being taken. How they are taken and who gets them is less than clear but is probably the state or persons or organizations associated with the state. It includes small and medium personal bank balances and motor cars and might include personal houses. At the other end the Brotherhood ran the biggest health and social services system for the lower middle class and lower class in the nation and it was hugely better run than the state chaos in this area. Its hard to know the size of the seizure but it includes a number of 400 bed good hospitals and hundreds of schools and hundreds of other facilities.

My guess is that the stealing is $US5-15 billion and the assets will end up being mismanaged by idiots to the huge disadvantage of the poor and the benefit of a government that can tolerate no opposition and requires absolute military uniformity. These assets and the overwhelming membership of the Brotherhood had and have nothing to do with violence/terrorism and, for example, the UK government refuses to list as a terrorist organization as does every other western government.

Just like the 50's the state and its parasites will end up controlling everything and the state will not now feel the pain of a huge Brotherhood health and social security system whose performance was a stark criticism of the state's uselessness. In the past the effect of the tossings meant everyone remaining 'looked' better - but weren't. Also like the50's a foreign element has been purged from Mother Egypt - really just a group that mainly wanted the Army out.

An aside. Much (hard to know) of the staffing, probably many doctors, some teachers, maybe lawyers, teachers, nurses etc of this Brotherhood system was either pro bono or at low salaries for public benefit and corruption was low, efficiency high and the services of quality.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Who2 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:55 am

It's also the 'Brothers of the Hood that gave all the Mosques PA systems and generators... 8)
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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Dusak » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:22 am

newcastle wrote:
It's good to know that a group of idiots spouting drivel isn't a phenomenon restricted to UK daytime TV.

Spare me! :vs
In the past I have observed that usually there is a least one grain of truth in anything that others consider to be rubbish. The property grab has happened here twice to my knowledge. English guy had two apartments, he was gay, overly so in public in my opinion. A really nice guy to talk to, but unfortunately let his guard down concerning his other half that filmed their frolics. He left to visit the UK. He managed to get as far as his home only to discover it had been sealed by the police, two of which stood guard outside. He was permitted to enter and collect personal items, then told to leave, loosing everything. This was around eight years ago.

Remember the infamous land grabs that happened in Karnak few years back? An English guy had just bought a 3/4 block of flats, was living in one while he refurbished the others. The knock came on the door giving him thirty minutes to clear out. He called hos lawyers, all to no avail, he was kicked out and his building demolished. By a stroke of luck he managed to recoup some of his money back from the buyer as it was proven that the seller knew about the demolition order before he sold. But he still lost a lot.

To be realistic about life here for the property owner, it can be taken off you with the slightest whim. A foreigner has absolute zero of legal standing while living here, or anywhere else in the world in relation to what you have had taken from you illegally in this country. They have the whip hand in everything. It makes you think.
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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by DJKeefy » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:54 am

Dusak wrote: The property grab has happened here twice to my knowledge.
Only twice Dusak :?: is that in 1 year only :?: (So called Government possessions)

And if its the general public (Egyptians) taking property of foreigners via some conning way (and there's many), well! its so many I can't even put a figure on it.
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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by newcastle » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:56 am

Asking tourists to behave like tourists - i.e. leave periodically - seems unexceptional. And any money required for the visa system can easily be raised by adjusting the fee for visa extensions.

The current fees and fines for overstaying seem cheap. Indonesia charges $25 PER DAY if you overstay.

Those who find periodic departures a burden can apply to be residents, or even citizens.

To buy property in Egypt when you have no more than the status of a tourist is a risky process. Those that did so probably recall the "farce" of being granted a temporary (1 month) residence stamp to facilitate the process. You are then enmeshed in an arcane legal system, riddled with corrupt lawyers and written in a language you can neither speak nor read.

It doesn't require any new legislation, or abuse of the judicial process, to trap the unwary foreigner.

And of course it's usually the ill-informed, unwary foreigner, who saves money by using dodgy lawyers,who finds himself the subject of hard luck anecdotes when things go tits up.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Who2 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:15 pm

Quote: "who saves money by using dodgy lawyers"
Point 1. All lawyers are dodgy.
Point 2. Far more dodgy in the UK than here.
Point 3. Understand point 1.
Point 4. Instill some fear into one's lawyer.
Point 5. Make your lawyer like you.....
Conclusion: It's really not rocket science or is it ?
Some people ( majority ) should not be allowed to leave the UK or even allowed the TV remote.... 8)
Ps: The majority of UK people look at their 'smart ? phone every 12 minutes.
Q: Which is smarter the phone or the person ?
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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Dusak » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:33 pm

DJKeefy wrote:
Dusak wrote: The property grab has happened here twice to my knowledge.
Only twice Dusak :?: is that in 1 year only :?: (So called Government possessions)

And if its the general public (Egyptians) taking property of foreigners via some conning way (and there's many), well! its so many I can't even put a figure on it.
I refer only to the point I was making in my original post, two occasions when the government was directly involved with the seizure of foreign owned property. I'm not including the hundreds of Egyptian properties seized this way, or the foreigners property lost to Egyptian sharks. That had no relation to my post.
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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by DJKeefy » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:40 pm

2 is the number you know about (Gov controlled), though as im sure you know this could be some corruption, i know of 8, so I am sure there will be many more we dont know about.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by A-Four » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:57 pm

There is a new law that has now come into effect for foreigner who wish to become citizens of Egypt, I won't bother you with the details as they are quite lengthy and I've just got home after a few days away, so therefore it's time for a few :wi 's.

To come to the point very quickly the government want you to deposit the equivalent to approx LE 7 MILLION into an Egyptian bank, you don't get citizenship immediately, it takes time, but you are well on your way to it,.............I joke not,........and I have not finished my first drink yet. :wi

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by A-Four » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:08 pm

Dusak wrote: Plus bring extra revenue in for the government, .
Just read through your post again Dusak, the information I have seen said the very same words. I did not see the Egyptian program you mention, but ask your friend if what I have written above about foreigners in Egypt was part of the T.V. program.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Horus » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:14 pm

All this citizenship stuff is fine, but the only place you are safe to reside is the country of your birth, everything else is subject to the whim of politicians, leaders, presidents, despots and the prevailing politics of the day, think Uganda and Idi Amin and there are many other examples. 8)
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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by newcastle » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:34 pm

I'm not sure you're even safe from expulsion in the country of your birth. I don't recall Idi Amin was too bothered whether the Asians in his sights were born in Uganda or elsewhere.

Even the UK is not above removing citizenship from "undesirables".....although they might have issues under EU laws if it leaves them stateless. Well...for the time being. ;)

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Major Thom » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:55 am

So like so many posts on here try to explain, what is the difference between a Tourist and a person living in Luxor, and what rights does a person living in Egypt have over a tourist, there still seems some confusion... I would think now though after reading the posts people will be flocking to the Estate Agencies before its too late. How horrible for a tourist living there with property to be living in fear!! Such a mixed up World!

The one good thing will be property prices will take a nose dive when this information is common.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by Dusak » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:20 am

Major Thom wrote:So like so many posts on here try to explain, what is the difference between a Tourist and a person living in Luxor, and what rights does a person living in Egypt have over a tourist, there still seems some confusion... I would think now though after reading the posts people will be flocking to the Estate Agencies before its too late. How horrible for a tourist living there with property to be living in fear!! Such a mixed up World!

The one good thing will be property prices will take a nose dive when this information is common.
There is no difference between us[tourist and resident] or the common people, we are all dungbeatles attempting to live in the same day to day pile of crap.
A-Four wrote:
Dusak wrote: Plus bring extra revenue in for the government, .
Just read through your post again Dusak, the information I have seen said the very same words. I did not see the Egyptian program you mention, but ask your friend if what I have written above about foreigners in Egypt was part of the T.V. program.
She did say money was mentioned to gain citizenship, which she already new about due to our conversations, but two on the panel stated Egyptian citizenship's should not be for sale at any cost.
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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by newcastle » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:17 am

If you're a foreigner with no "family" connections to Egypt then, whether you're a short term tourist or someone who'd like to live in Egypt, you have the same rights to reside long term as, say, a foreigner coming to UK.

None whatsoever.( except, for the time being in Europe, if you're an EU citizen).

In Egypt you can, by jumping through a number of hoops, obtain a piece of paper saying you can stay for 1, 3, 5 or maybe more years but it can be withdrawn at any point if you don't keep your nose clean or tread on the wrong toes.

It never ceases to surprise me that foreigners will still buy property in a foreign land, notwithstanding that they have no right to reside .

Buying property in Egypt is particularly problematic given the complexities of the laws governing land tenure.

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Re: Foreigners living here discussed on Egyptian TV

Post by BENNU » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:26 am

Major Thom wrote: what rights does a person living in Egypt have over a tourist
None.

Clearly, some foreigners believe that they are more worthy having bought property than us who do not take such a chance in a country where we have no rights. Feeling at home, I am grateful to be tolerated, but never took my life in Egypt for granted. Noone promised me anything and since I decided to stay, I have always known that I should be ready to leave any day. Even if I gave up having a base in my home town, I would still be a tourist.

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