Stand to attention!!

[newcastle]

In the latest of a long list of controversial tweets, President Trump has announced that transgender people will no longer be allowed to serve in the US military in any capacity. The issue is one of cost, according to Trump.

This cost has been estimated at $8 million...a tiny fraction of the medical costs of the military. It's unclear how many people are involved.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... s-military

Separately it has emerged that the military spends $84 million on erectile dysfunction medicines....half of that on Viagra. Admittedly, most of that, perhaps 90%, goes to retired servicemen. It still leaves a bill for serving personnel roughly equal to the estimated cost of dealing with transgender issues.

http://nypost.com/2017/07/26/us-militar ... ts-troops/

You couldn't make it up

[Zooropa]

Given that most of America's enemies and potential enemies are likely to come from cultures where homosexuality, never mind transgenderism is looked upon as an abomination id be wary of joining the army if i fell into either of those categories especially the latter.

[newcastle]

Given that most of America's enemies and potential enemies are likely to come from cultures where homosexuality, never mind transgenderism is looked upon as an abomination id be wary of joining the army if i fell into either of those categories especially the latter.

Actually, Islam is OK with transgenderism.

Iran, where homosexuality is punishable by death, positively courts transgenders and has a thriving sex-reassignment operation industry.

[Zooropa]

Given that most of America's enemies and potential enemies are likely to come from cultures where homosexuality, never mind transgenderism is looked upon as an abomination id be wary of joining the army if i fell into either of those categories especially the latter.

Actually, Islam is OK with transgenderism.

Iran, where homosexuality is punishable by death, positively courts transgenders and has a thriving sex-reassignment operation industry.

Very admirable, and here is me thinking Islam was behind the times.

[newcastle]

Very admirable, and here is me thinking Islam was behind the times.

Well, in most respects, it is

There is a suspicion that some homosexuals in Iran opt for sex-reassignment surgery as a way of avoiding the punishment that would be meted out to them if they were found in a man-to-man relationship.

A pretty drastic solution I'd have thought.

Maybe, in the case of an existing relationship, they toss a coin to determine who goes under the knife

[Dusak]

Very admirable, and here is me thinking Islam was behind the times.

Well, in most respects, it is

There is a suspicion that some homosexuals in Iran opt for sex-reassignment surgery as a way of avoiding the punishment that would be meted out to them if they were found in a man-to-man relationship.

A pretty drastic solution I'd have thought.

Maybe, in the case of an existing relationship, they toss a coin to determine who goes under the knife

And if they did toss a coin to decide this, then most would be having their last toss. Naughty but true.

[FarleyFlavors]

This guy will be happy at the news...

[HEPZIBAH]

Would somebody please explain to the President of the United States that, even if you do want to be in with the modern world of technology and communication tools that are going to reach more of the people [allegedly], he should still use the old fashioned idea of engaging brain first.

Does that man give any prior thought to anything he says, or does he too wait for his ears to hear what comes out of his mouth. In that instance alas, unlike a huge proportion of his listeners (who stand there open mouthed, shaking head, and asking if they've just heard what they think they've heard), he actually believes what he's hearing.

[newcastle]

Trump does have a unique outlook on the role of the President.

The Washington "swamp" will, I suspect, ultimately drown his ambitions to run the country like his eponymous business.

He's down to filling key posts with relatives or sycophants - like his communications director Scary Douche.

Usually the dying throw of a would-be dictator

[newcastle]

This guy will be happy at the news...

Aaah ...Klinger from M*A*S*H. His efforts to be discharged were unsuccessful. Didn't he end up promoted? Presumably transvestism was OK in the US army in those days.

Captain Blackadder didn't fare much better with his ploy for a discharge :



Pretending to be homosexual might have been more successful....although a lengthy jail sentence would have been a consequence in those long-off days.

[Horus]

"Are you mad Blackadder?" answer = "Wibble" "Wibble"

[Hafiz]

Newcastle, as you suggest, the Iran story is complicated and should not necessarily be interpreted as tolerance of transgenderism.

Looked into this a while ago because Middle Eastern friends were always banging on about this as an example of the so called ‘tolerance’ of Iran and proof of that government’s liberalism.

Its true there is a lot of sex reassignment surgery in Iran(second in the world after Thailand) and its state funded. Overwhelmingly the people undergoing the treatment are gay males who are facing criminal prosecution and a possible death sentence. The surgery is sometimes ‘offered’ as a way of avoiding the death penalty/jail. In any other cases its seen as a way of avoiding possible future criminal law problems. I think its rare for the surgery to be performed in Iran for the voluntary reasons it is in the West. In Iran its more often than not offered as a cure for homosexuality not as a solution to transgenderism.

The thinking behind it seems to be that the surgery avoids the ‘abomination’. That is the behavior of individuals is ‘regularized’ after surgery because they are now ‘females’ and their continued sex with men is now ‘normal’. There also seems to be some argument that the plumbing should be adjusted to reflect the sexual orientation. Other interpretations and reasons are also given along lines for which it is difficult to find any scientific/psychological/physiological evidence justifying it.

It seems the case that outside ‘abominations’, sex reassignment surgery is not as 'freely' offered to those non-criminals for whom their sexual identity does not conform to their anatomy. It therefore seems likely that its not offered to those most in ‘need’ including those males, for example, who are heterosexual males who want to become heterosexual females and continue sexual relations with women.


Iran offers sex reassignment surgery for women in some cases (maybe) and I have only very limited information on Iranian execution of lesbians. If true this confirms my view that the surgery is primarily offered for non-medical and criminal law reasons to cure ‘perversions’.

It’s a scandal that international medical organizations continue to recognize Iranian medical bodies that permit this perversion of science.

I think its true to say that the whole approach shows that in a fight between Islam and science the former wins – even in the best educated Islamic country in the world. In the case of Iran it seems that passions have been further inflamed because of the widespread conviction that the Shah’s regime was sexually decadent. Propaganda along these lines was widely used to discredit the Shah in the lead up to his ouster.

It is nevertheless true that some western media say that Iran has a permissive view in this area – so there might be some room for debate but I think its overwhelmingly the case that its connected to the criminal law not to any medical ‘need’ and the need to adjust plumbing to sexual behavior.

The Iranians face ‘theological’ hurdles with such an approach because the Koran is quite clear in its prohibition against castration – not that this stopped centuries of castration in the Islamic world to ‘create’ eunuchs.

Whether this practice occurs elsewhere in the Islamic world I’m not sure.

If anyone has any further information I encourage them to post as an antidote to the outrageous Iranian propaganda that this practice shows that its government is ‘enlightened’. The truth seems entirely the other way.

I don’t know whether the so-called liberal current Iranian government has altered the previous approach to this issue.

Even after researching this issue my middle-class Lebanese Christian friends still stick to their view that this Iranian practice is evidence of the enlightened character of its government – together with all their rot on how Iran leads the world in this area. Iran has many apologists in the West, particularly from the hard left and those who hate America.

[newcastle]

I couldn't agree with you more, Hafiz.

The availability of gender-reassignment treatment in Iran has little, if anything, to do with an enlightened approach ....transgenderism, like homosexuality, is viewed as a psychosexual disease. Whilst transgenders may be subject to social ostracism, the law generally leaves them alone Homosexuals , on the other hand, risk the direst of penalties if caught following their natural predilections

Although gender identity and sexual orientation are entirely different concepts, Iran seems to view gender-reassignment as a cure-all for both.

It's hardly an acceptable "cure" for homosexuality, or indeed a desirable course except, perhaps, for that small subset of homosexuals who also suffer from gender dimorphism.