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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:36 pm  |  Posted from: Egypt
  

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Years ago I had my place fumigated by local guy's that worked for the government, dead cheap!
Luckily we had no cats or dogs the rabbits I had given to 'er next door'
They sprayed every room, after not a single living creature existed within 100 yards......
2 days later I reentered the homestead, interesting smell even with all doors, windows and fans working to the max.... 8)
Novachoc ? them Russkies were at it again!

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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:05 am  |  Posted from: Cyprus
  

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It would be interesting to know if TC had informed they were inspecting the hotel previous to doing so. Like the H&S do in the UK. Quick all hands on Deck!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:51 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:10 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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Sounds like another cover up :(

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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:04 pm  |  Posted from: Cyprus
  

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Not necessary Horus, I think E-Coli could be rife in Egypt, especially in transported food from Cairo that has been on the road a few hours, and subjected to high temperatures in the back of lorries that are unsuitable for food transport. How many of you have seen defrosted food in freezers in the shops.


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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:05 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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I'm not convinced that this is the primary cause of death. These were by all accounts a fit and healthy couple. I think it would be very unusual for a couple to die in such a short time of each other, and yet other guests who have also presented with food poisioning symptoms have survived. The matter of the strange smell has not been fully addressed and, in my opinion has to be linked to at least being a contriburary factor.

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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:54 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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You mean you actually believe their story MT? I am quite aware of food poisoning in Egypt as I have suffered from it and yes it can make you seriously ill, but I doubt if two reasonably healthy people would die from it in such a short space of time. Not to put too fine of a point on it, but if they had been so ill that they could not raise the alarm in some way, then I would have expected their daughter to report finding vomit and other emisssions in and around them in their room and bed if they had been so helpless. No one has yet addressed the strange smell that the daughter reported or the fact that it had an ajoining room that had recently been fumigated, some reports saying that the ajoining door had been sealed around with a tape prior to the fumigation taking place. There is still more to this than meets the eye and if the Egyptian authorities did not have such a bad reputation for cover ups then perhaps people would be less suspicious. :urm:

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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:16 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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I reckon that they were fumigating rooms with the powerful insecticide "lambda-cyhalothrin @ 5 %
to get rid of the e-coli. Hence the smell...I still think TC should be held responsible... 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:52 am  |  Posted from: Cyprus
  

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That is the story being put out Horus, but I have to agree with yourself and Hepzi, E-Coli can be treated and people recover, the same like people do with food poisoning. I ám sure there must be something else, but I doubt we will ever know, a rather large tarpaulin has been thrown over the story. I still have not heard if the deceased remains have arrived in the UK yet. That I think may expose a little more of the truth and what happened. I really find it hard to believe that 2 fit and healthy people would succumb to E-Coli in such a small time scale.


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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:35 am  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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Who2 wrote:
I reckon that they were fumigating rooms with the powerful insecticide "lambda-cyhalothrin @ 5 %
to get rid of the e-coli. Hence the smell...I still think TC should be held responsible... 8)

More than likely it was used to get rid of insects such as bed bugs which are insects rather than e-coli which is a bacterium.
Those responsible are the ones that oversee and permit this sort of practice which must come down to management or company policy.

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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:11 am  |  Posted from: Egypt
  

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Horus wrote:
Who2 wrote:
I reckon that they were fumigating rooms with the powerful insecticide "lambda-cyhalothrin @ 5 %
to get rid of the e-coli. Hence the smell...I still think TC should be held responsible... 8)

More than likely it was used to get rid of insects such as bed bugs which are insects rather than e-coli which is a bacterium.
Those responsible are the ones that oversee and permit this sort of practice which must come down to management or company policy.


I agree.

Whether it was a a bacterial infection or reaction to some insecticide that caused the deaths, I can't see why - on this occasion at least - the authorities would wish to obfuscate. The state's responsibility is much the same in either case.

In either case, surely most of the blame falls on the hotel (owned by a wealthy Egyptian businessman, rather than the State) or TC for not monitoring their accommodation adequately.

Incidentally, the reference in many posts to the effect that the couple were fit & healthy should be questioned. I believe they were in their 60's. Often, health issues remain undetected until tested by the stress of illness, exposure to chemicals etc. My younger brother. apparently fit & healthy, died suddenly of an undiagnosed heart condition.

A full and detailed autopsy in UK would be a good idea....if it remains a possibility after so much time has elapsed.


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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:44 am  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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'Fit and healthy' is a term I have used in my post as above. I use it because the daughter of the couple mentioned at one point that her mother attended the gym a number of times a week and we generally in good health.
I think it's a term to identify that although the couple were both over 60, neither were known to have any [relevant] preexisting condition or health issues that would have made them any more weak than anyone else.

Given that others guests have complained of food related illness, it seems very odd that two people, who were sharing a room, died so quickly, without even having time to complain of being unwell, and yet others survived (without even being hospitalised as far as I'm aware). I'd hazard a guess that other guests at the hotel hit with the food related illness were also over 60, but that is only a guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:33 am  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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LAMBDA-CYHALOTHRIN

Toxbase summary

Type of product

Insecticide

Toxicity

Dermal and inhalational exposures are associated usually with no or
only mild adverse effects. Following substantial ingestion, patients
may develop coma, convulsions and severe muscle fasciculations and may
take several days, occasionally weeks, to recover.


Fatalities have occurred rarely after pyrethroid exposure, usually
following ingestion (He et al, 1989). No known fatalities have been
reported after lambda-cyhalothrin exposure.

Features

Dermal exposure

- Tingling and pruritus with blotchy erythema on the face or
other exposed areas, exacerbated by sweating or touching.
Systemic toxicity may ensue following substantial exposure
(see below).

Ocular exposure

- Lacrimation and transient conjunctivitis may occur.

Inhalation

Brief exposure:
- Respiratory tract irritation with cough, mild dyspnoea,
sneezing and rhinorrhea.

Substantial and prolonged exposure:
- Systemic toxicity may ensue - see below.

Ingestion

- May cause nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain. Systemic
toxicity may ensue following substantial ingestion (see
below).

Systemic toxicity

- Systemic symptoms may develop after widespread dermal
exposure, prolonged inhalation or ingestion. Features
include headache, dizziness, anorexia and hypersalivation.

- Severe poisoning is uncommon. It usually follows
substantial ingestion
and causes impaired consciousness,
muscle fasciculations, convulsions and, rarely, non-
cardiogenic pulmonary oedema.

Chronic exposure

- Long-term exposure is no more hazardous than short-term
exposure.

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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:38 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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Thomas Cook gave the hotel a 'clean bill of health only 2 months previous to this tragic accident.
Why ? Guests were complaining of health problems,before & after.
They cannot all be insurance scam merchants, or can they ?
The British tourist abroad can be a pretty nasty experience to encounter, in my humble opinion....
The whole stinks to high heaven as does the Salisbury novacock incident...... 8)
Rant over...ps: Just heard that Jeremy Corbyn is going to get circumcised live on TV..

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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:42 pm  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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JL, I assume by your post that you are trying to say that the insecticide used in the room was unlikely to have caused their deaths?

ingestion
ɪnˈdʒɛstʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: ingestion; plural noun: ingestions

the process of taking food, drink, or another substance into the body by swallowing or absorbing it.
"vomiting after ingestion of contaminated food"
the process of absorbing information.
"the quiet ingestion of information"

I would suggest that breathing in fumes from this insecticide over a longish period overnight would qualify as ingestion under the above definition.

"May cause nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain.
Systemic toxicity may ensue following substantial ingestion"


Systemic toxicity means that most organs in the body are affected.

"Severe poisoning is uncommon. It usually follows substantial ingestion and causes impaired consciousness, muscle fasciculations, convulsions and, rarely, non-
cardiogenic pulmonary oedema."


"Non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema is a clinical syndrome manifested by rapidly progressive respiratory distress leading, without therapy, to severe respiratory insufficiency and subsequent multiorgan failure. The pathophysiological causes are: the change in the pressure gradients in the pulmonary capillaries, the impaired membrane permeability of the alveolocapillary in the lungs, and impaired lymphatic drainage. Unlike in cardiogenic pulmonary edema, cardiac disease is not a cause, and there is no increase in wedge pressure (< 18 mm Hg). The aetiological base is diverse and includes more clinical pathological factors. The diagnosis and evaluation are usually very difficult due to the rapidly deteriorating clinical condition of the patients. A decisive, quick and comprehensive approach, using all available invasive and non-invasive methods is necessary. The basic steps of treatment are: the use of different types of ventilatory support in order to achieve adequate oxygenation, dealing with possible hemodynamic instability, and, when needed, other specific procedures. It is always important to keep in mind that this is a very serious condition with a high mortality rate. And there is a need for fast and efficient access to the best specialized clinic."

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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:21 pm  |  Posted from: Egypt
  

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https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/full-inve ... 20Bulletin

Full investigation into Hurghada deaths 'could take months', coroner says

Dr James Adeley, senior coroner for Lancashire, where the couple lived, said concerns about the case meant a UK evaluation of findings at the post mortem in Egypt “may take some weeks or possibly several months to analyse”.



He told London’s Evening Standard that results from Egypt, which determined that the Coopers had died of complications associated with E. coli poisoning, would be compared with those of the UK investigation. The Cooper’s daughter Kelly Ormerod, who was also staying in the hotel, has disputed the findings of the Egyptian authorities.



Thomas Cook said earlier this week that would examine the full report from the Egyptian authorities and added: “we will need time for our own experts to review it”.



Steigenberger Hotels, which operates the Aqua Magic hotel where the family were staying, said it had put in place extra quality checks, but in a statement, chief executive Thomas Wilms, said: We are in intensive discussions about our future relationship with our operating partners at the Hotel Aqua Magic.”


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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:20 am  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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19-09-2018.

John and Susan Cooper, from Burnley, died suddenly on August 21, after becoming ill while staying at the Steigenberger Aqua Magic Hotel in the Red Sea resort of Hurghada.

A private joint-funeral took place this morning at St Catherine's Church in the Lancashire town......


James Adeley, senior coroner for Blackburn with Darwen, passed on his condolences as the inquests into the couple’s deaths opened and adjourned yesterday until a date to be arranged.

A brief chronology of events was given at Preston Coroner's Court, with Dr Adeley explaining that as the deaths occurred outside the UK he could only make "requests" for information from the authorities in Egypt.

Dr Adeley said he would be requesting all relevant reports and documentation from a long list of public bodies in Egypt and from Thomas Cook.

The Egyptian authorities said their examinations showed Mr Cooper, 69, suffered acute intestinal dysentery caused by E.coli - bacteria associated with sever food poisoning. Mrs Cooper, a 63-year-old Thomas Cook employee, was said to have suffered a complication linked to infection, likely to have been caused by E.coli.

Travel agent for the hotel Thomas Cook carried its own tests, which also showed up high levels of E.coli at the resort. But the firm said these results did not necessarily "shed any light" on the cause of the Coopers' deaths.

Ms Ormerod, who was on holiday with her parents and her own three children at the time, believes that E.coli does not explain the rapid nature of her mother and father's sudden death.
.
.

The family have said they hope the coroner's investigation will establish the "true cause" of death. ??????


So, A thorough post mortem carried out on British soil, no stone unturned... ? :ct

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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:01 am  |  Posted from: Egypt
  

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I know that this has nothing to do with the above tragic topic but the main reason my long time visiting friends are no longer going to visit Egypt is because of the drop in hygiene standards at the E-Tab and the low quality and stale food they were served up at breakfast. I personally would not eat at any hotel here, I think that the street food would be a more healthy option. I will no longer eat at a certain restaurant here because a friend and I had a bad stomach the day after. Same friend went to another local restaurant with a group of friends, several of which suffered the next day. Gone are the days, due to now low tourist numbers and near empty hotels, food was consumed at high rates. Food now is being either reheated, chilled in the fridge for long periods or refrozen as they can no longer afford to give it away to staff or dump it. Even the rats are feeling the pinch.

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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:06 am  |  Posted from: United Kingdom
  

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Dusak wrote:
I know that this has nothing to do with the above tragic topic but the main reason my long time visiting friends are no longer going to visit Egypt is because of the drop in hygiene standards at the E-Tab and the low quality and stale food they were served up at breakfast. I personally would not eat at any hotel here, I think that the street food would be a more healthy option. I will no longer eat at a certain restaurant here because a friend and I had a bad stomach the day after. Same friend went to another local restaurant with a group of friends, several of which suffered the next day. Gone are the days, due to now low tourist numbers and near empty hotels, food was consumed at high rates. Food now is being either reheated, chilled in the fridge for long periods or refrozen as they can no longer afford to give it away to staff or dump it. Even the rats are feeling the pinch.


Couldn't agree more Dusak! The main reason that I usually stay at the Steigenberger hotel when I visit Luxor, is the fact that, unlike many Luxor hotels, it's BUSY!!! Its success in promoting itself as a conference centre is immediately apparent. Eating breakfast there is a pleasure because everything is fresh, the food displays are constantly replenished, the choice is tremendous, and the chef listens to how I like my eggs and produces a perfect plate every time! My only complaint is the poor quality of the coffee, but that's true of most hotels anywhere in the world :urm:

I'm considering a visit in January; despite the fact that the Steigenberger is more expensive than most Luxor hotels, I'll definitely stay there if I make the trip.


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 Post subject: Re: Hurghada
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:08 am  |  Posted from: Egypt
  

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Your bed here will be ready and waiting Yildez. Do you remember the delicious falafal sandwiches you used to buy for our breakfast to eat at the pool. We were never ill with that street food. Mind you I still miss Nokta.


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