Atheism.....NO THANK YOU !!

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Atheism.....NO THANK YOU !!

Post by newcastle »

I wasn't sure whether to post this here...or in the "Just for Fun" section.

Trying to discuss anything but conventional religion is hopeless on Egyptian TV chat shows!

Mohammad Hashem, an atheist, was invited to the Alhadath Alyoum TV studio to participate in a debate with former Deputy Sheikh of Al-Azhar Mahmoud Ashour. However, his statement that there is no scientific evidence for the existence of God and his attempt to talk about the Big Bang theory met with a barrage of insults from Sheikh Ashour and from TV host Mahmoud Abd Al-Halim, with Sheikh Ashour recommending psychiatric treatment and Abd Al-Halim refusing to allow him to remain on the show. The TV host, apologizing to his viewers for subjecting them to "inappropriate" and "destructive ideas," advised Hashem "to leave the studio and go straight to a psychiatric hospital." The show aired on February 11



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Re: Atheism.....NO THANK YOU !!

Post by Hafiz »

Newcastle: you know this but others don't.

The Renaissance, Enlightenment, Scientific Revolution, industrial revolution, the emergence of democracy and independent thought etc have not occurred in some places. Ai Azhar rejects Darwin - maybe they reject also Galileo and Copernicus - they won't give an opinion. Modern DNA is completely beyond their imagination. You might think it rejecting all this a problem but current arrangements see rejection of Western decadence as a strength. To them its a virtue that makes 4th raters feel good.

Its really sad because the technology/science changes in the West will either mean that Africa delivers or becomes a welfare trash heap,

When you look at the qualifications of the Professors in elite Egyptian universities the trash heap option is more likely.
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Re: Atheism.....NO THANK YOU !!

Post by newcastle »

It comes as no surprise that Egypt hasn't produced many notable scientists.....and those they do soon leave and seldom return.

Their sole Nobel Laureate in the science area, Ahmed Zeweil, was awarded the Chemistry Prize for his work in an abstruse field (femtochemistry). Needless to say, he completed his higher education abroad...where he stayed. I've read his autobiography and Islam didn't feature at all, as far as I recall.

You won't find any practicing muslims in the field of cosmology or many in the field of evolutionary biology. Although Al Azhar rejects Darwin, many muslim scientists accept evolution, with the proviso that it was God who sparked it all off with the creation of a replicating chemical. Egyptians have a hard time getting into these, or related fields when you consider the obstacles, brainwashing, they face at school level.

“Of course evolution is taught here,” said one of the department’s professors, who asked that his name not be used. “There is no problem with that. But we do not cover human evolution. That’s different. The students wouldn’t have that, no. Evolution is concerned only with animals."

http://www.egyptindependent.com/percept ... nd-beyond/

The field of medicine is more productive with notable surgeons like Magdi Yacoub. Then again, at the risk of appearing flippant, Egypt has a large number of sick on which to practice! The least said about their "kofta" all-cure gadget , the better and whilst they are currently lauding their advances in the field of curing Hep C it should be remembered that they single-handedly caused the problem in the first place.

I'm not even sure that religion poses much of an obstacle to scientific advancement - though it hardly helps. Rather it's the hopeless higher education system and lack of opportunities for bright graduates.
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Re: Atheism.....NO THANK YOU !!

Post by Hafiz »

Yacoub is interesting - but his whole life has been in the west. You know what my point is - he succeeded ONLY (arguable) because he got out. All those that stayed did nothing. There are many other examples and Harvard has done a study, which I should post, showing that if you get out you will do three times better than if you stay (methodology more complex and I don't agree with the conclusions). There is a view that Egypt for the bright and motivated is a bit of a black hole/toilet that 'ruins' people.

Yacoub (a very, very old mad) seems to be doing things in Aswan - which are shallow and PR - but maybe better things in Cairo hospitals - which are sure to be diluted. He is not saying anything about the rotteness of the system or anything which would make the infaiilable and perfect current government any anxiety. Pardon my caution with him.

Of course I'm interested in elite Arab/Muslim scientists. Its a small category because it requires creativity, imagination and a desire to subvert established views. You can go to jail for that or have al Azhar on your back.

But my concern is with the other 99.9% and what teaching they get whether its in science or in broader matters concerning theory and debate - particularly the teaching that dogmatic certitudes are always wrong.

It seems to me that big bits of the Muslim world are locked in a circular argument of dogmatic certainty which doesn't contact with the real world or science/physics/mathematics/biology/medicine etc.

On one view its a time tomb - reality doesn't fit theory/religion/traditional values, creating impossible to manage tension.

Who knows. An example. Its my best guess that medical training in Cairo and Alex avoids human bodies. Its my guess that the peak medical bodies in Egypt avoid the donation of human corpses and this is reflected also by government agencies. My point. You can't train a medical student anywhere in the world without cutting up a dead body. In Egypt there is a clear prohibition on cutting up a dead body. Napoleon and the ones that followed thought they had fixed this issue - but no. Its not an end of the world issue. If this is still a prohibition (probably more ambiguous depending on who you talk to) what are the other prohibitions - I'm certain we don't know.

Another general point. Al Azhar is not interested in looking at western developments that isolate it. Its general position is to maintain an island existence. They are cretins. God knows what the future is but my concern is that such an approach disadvantages the lives of ordinary Muslims whilst maintaining the outdated power of unhinged Imams who have a keen sense of where their interests lie.
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Re: Atheism.....NO THANK YOU !!

Post by Dusak »

Atheism is a none prophet religion.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.
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