Jihad

Luxor has both Christian and Moslem communities and the politics of the Middle East are equally diverse. Air your views on the situation.

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Mad Dilys
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Jihad

Post by Mad Dilys »

As a Muslim I am appalled at actions taken by people in the name of my religion, who have obviously no knowledge of the faith at all - yet I hear them described as Islamic Jihadists.


WHAT JIHAD IS
The Arabic word "jihad" is often translated as "holy war," but in a purely linguistic sense, the word " jihad" means struggling or striving.
The arabic word for war is: "al-harb".

In a religious sense, as described by the Quran and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (s), "jihad" has many meanings. It can refer to internal as well as external efforts to be a good Muslims or believer, as well as working to inform people about the faith of Islam.

If military jihad is required to protect the faith against others, it can be performed using anything from legal, diplomatic and economic to political means. If there is no peaceful alternative, Islam also allows the use of force, but there are strict rules of engagement.

Innocents - such as women, children, or invalids - must never be harmed, and any peaceful overtures from the enemy must be accepted.


WHAT JIHAD IS NOT
Jihad is not a violent concept.

Jihad is not a declaration of war against other religions. It is worth noting that the Koran specifically refers to Jews and Christians as "people of the book" who should be protected and respected. All three faiths worship the same God. Allah is just the Arabic word for God, and is used by Christian Arabs as well as Muslims.

Military action in the name of Islam has not been common in the history of Islam. Scholars says most calls for violent jihad are not sanctioned by Islam.

Warfare in the name of God is not unique to Islam. Other faiths throughout the world have waged wars with religious justifications


http://islamicsupremecouncil.org/unders ... ml?start=9


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Re: Jihad

Post by newcastle »

I can understand Mad Dilys' discomfort that the original concept of "jihad" has been hijacked , in our language, to become synonymous with violent, islamic-based, warfare.

But the meaning of words are often transmuted over time and I'm afraid the current understanding of "jihad" and "jihadi" is now firmly linked to the followers of Al Qaeda, ISIS et al.

I've never considered islam a "religion of war"...anymore than I think of it as a "religion of peace".

Like most religions, it conveys a message about how you should conduct yourself in this life...a message which is open to interpretation from one extreme to the other.

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Re: Jihad

Post by carrie »

Correct me if I am wrong MD but doesn't Islam say that it is wrong to kill anyone unless you are protecting yourself,family or home?

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Re: Jihad

Post by newcastle »

carrie wrote:Correct me if I am wrong MD but doesn't Islam say that it is wrong to kill anyone unless you are protecting yourself,family or home?
It's pretty hopeless turning to the Quran for a definitive answer on anything.

Words are open to interpretation and, like the Bible, you can find phrases or directives that are diametrically opposed and inconsistent.

ISIS and its ilk are particularly adept at quoting the Quran in support of their ideology....usually out of context of course.

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Re: Jihad

Post by John Landon »

I have never found peace, solace or comfort from religion. All religions come with some form of invisible threat. I really do not take kindly to being threatened in any way.
They expect you to sacrifice your allotted time here in Earth to the service of God, and the promise of a wonderful after life.
I am afraid that this is way too much of a "leap of faith", that when I do die, I will be rewarded in Heaven.

Remember the story of The Emperors new clothes... ? it took a child to point out the obvious.
My own observations in life have been that many religious people seem to suffer unnecessarily, and that was a bitter pill for me to swallow regarding my own mother, but bless her,
her suffering taught me a lot.

There are 2 topics of discussion that will always cause problems and arguments. They are Politics and Religion.
Now, if they can cause problems just by discussing them, imagine what can happen when you start participating in them ?

I make my own rules down here, I have support and they are always there when I need them, whoever and whatever they are, I give thanks for that, because I am very very lucky.
What I have found does not exist in any book, and what I have found can not be explained, just like you cant explain what a specific colour looks like to a blind man.
I know I am not to hurt anyone, and if I am asked directly for help I will give it, but do not mistake my generosity or sympathy for weakness, woe betide anyone who knowingly thinks they have deceived me and got away with it. it was either a lesson for me, or a lesson for them, so either way I am a winner.
If you want to judge me by my bank account, my house, my job or my car, the things I do, then you are either going to think you are superior to me or be jealous of me.

Judge not lest ye be judged thyself. Judgement is the worst possible thing you can do down here. Ever notice how a "Judge" does not Judge, he is no fool, he leaves that to the Jury..

MD, I think you are a wonderful and wise person, and I have enjoyed your points of view, perspectives and posts on this forum, and hope to do so for a long time, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with your religion or political beliefs.

Now, the skys are blue, the birds are singing in my back garden, the Sun is shining and has melted all the ice on my lawns, and I am off to assemble a trampoline for my grandchildren that they had for Christmas. Kids Love life, because they keep it simple and always seem to find treasure in life, just like little pirates....Arrrrghh..

Oh, and a message from old Satchmo, his mind was in the right place...

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Re: Jihad

Post by newcastle »

Even though I'm an atheist, I have always been interested in the history and content of the so-called Holy Books.

But they are the words of man, written with all the motives and prejudices of the human animal.....often long after the death of the founder of the religion.

Of course muslims believe them (in part) to be the actual words of God, and christians believe them to be (in part) the words of the son of God.

They are entitled to their 'beliefs'.

I just wish some of them were less inclined to force their beliefs down the throats of others.

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Re: Jihad

Post by Mad Dilys »

Isn't it wonderful, that in general we all have far more in common than we are different? :up
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Re: Jihad

Post by newcastle »

Mad Dilys wrote:Isn't it wonderful, that in general we all have far more in common than we are different? :up
And we're likely to lead a happier, more peaceful existence if we focus on that and ignore those, particularly in the media, who would rather focus on our differences.

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Re: Jihad

Post by Mad Dilys »

carrie wrote:Correct me if I am wrong MD but doesn't Islam say that it is wrong to kill anyone unless you are protecting yourself,family or home?
This is the first part of a posting just after the Boston bombing:

1. Terrorism is above all murder. Murder is strictly forbidden in the Qur’an. Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.” (i.e. murder is forbidden but the death penalty imposed by the state for a crime is permitted). 5:53 says, “… whoso kills a soul, unless it be for murder or for wreaking corruption in the land, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and he who saves a life, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.”

The other 9 points make interesting reading in the light of common prejudices. You can find them here.

https://www.juancole.com/2013/04/islami ... orism.html

I guess as many "Muslims" read the Koran, as "Christians" read the Bible. Unfortunately few separate religion from tradition, which is another subject altogether. ;)
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Re: Jihad

Post by Who2 »

Quote:"jihad" has been hijacked.

As has the word Gay, when asked as a kid if my mate was gay ? I replied "well he seems happy enough"....8)
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.

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Re: Jihad

Post by Horus »

Like most posts on here it is easy to agree with most or some of the sentiments expressed. Like Newcastle I subscribe to no religious beliefs and do not need a god to live my life or to treat others with kindness, love or respect, basically I offer all those things and hope to get them returned. It is for that reason that I dislike all religions equally, as JL has pointed out they are mainly mind controlling organisations that the world would be better off without, it is often quoted and I believe it to be true that most of the worlds ills throughout history have religion as their root cause and that as never been truer than today. It is no use just saying “it is not in my name” most people realise that not every Muslim for example is a terrorist, but they are capable of seeing that it is one particular cause or religion that is behind it whether that be a Catholic/Protestant one in Northern Ireland or an Islamic one in many of today’s outrages.

I have always though that the original writers of the Koran were particularly crafty in inserting things such as Islam being a faith that has always existed and that it was gradually revealed to humanity by a number of prophets, but the final and complete revelation of the faith was made through the Prophet Muhammad in the 7th century CE. Now that was neat trick that basically stops anyone else from changing anything contained within it, so modern day adherents are stuck with an archaic version of a religion that de facto cannot be modernised, unlike most other religions which have changed over the centuries, some more than others. The term “Islamic Terrorist” is here to stay as a description of those that commit terror in the name of Islam, regardless of how corrupt that personal view may be.
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Re: Jihad

Post by Dusak »

Who2 wrote:Quote:"jihad" has been hijacked.

As has the word Gay, when asked as a kid if my mate was gay ? I replied "well he seems happy enough"....8)
As is the case with many words today due to political correctness. Decades ago you could quite openly say that you and a mate had had ''a gay old time of it in the countryside.'' Think of the consequences if stating the same during the SP interview when asked what you think of living in Luxor. Your feet wouldn't touch the runway tarmac. :lol:
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

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Re: Jihad

Post by newcastle »

Mad Dilys wrote:
I guess as many "Muslims" read the Koran, as "Christians" read the Bible.
Surely most muslims have had the Qur'an drummed into them from birth, have it blasted to them from the TV daily and engage with it regularly at Friday prayers. I doubt you'll find many muslim homes without a copy.

It's part of their life....as much a eating and breathing.

The Bible is far less read by christians, many of whom have a fairly loose association with the religion to which they claim to adhere.

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Re: Jihad

Post by newcastle »

Who2 wrote:Quote:"jihad" has been hijacked.

As has the word Gay, when asked as a kid if my mate was gay ? I replied "well he seems happy enough"....8)
Blimey....you're younger than I thought!

The use of the term to apply to homosexuals didn't really enter the vocabulary until the 1970s. :)

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Re: Jihad

Post by Bearded Brian »

But even as late as 1979 the term 'gay' was still being used by the old school to refer to happy, jolly etc - it was a term used to describe Airey Neeves after he was assassinated and I remember the uproar from people who thought he was being outed as homosexual.

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Re: Jihad

Post by Mad Dilys »

newcastle wrote:
Mad Dilys wrote:
I guess as many "Muslims" read the Koran, as "Christians" read the Bible.
Surely most muslims have had the Qur'an drummed into them from birth, have it blasted to them from the TV daily and engage with it regularly at Friday prayers. I doubt you'll find many muslim homes without a copy.

It's part of their life....as much a eating and breathing.

The Bible is far less read by christians, many of whom have a fairly loose association with the religion to which they claim to adhere.
Not most Muslims, Newcastle there are a lot of Muslims, outside the Middle East for example who have never heard the call to prayer and watch the same popular TV programmes as everyone else. I have prayed in Mosques with women who didn't know the very basic stuff and couldn't pray in Arabic as is required for formal prayers. You only need to know a couple of very short ones to get by, but women of middle age had no idea, yet they came to the mosque every Friday. As to reading the Koran don't forget you have to be able to read before tackling that.

Anyway my point is that for many younger Muslims they learn by rote and are not required by their teachers to think. So they make hay while the sun shines saying, oh, I'll get serious when I'm older, I want to Live now........... It's only as they approach middle age that they realise the end of the road is looming and so they feel they have to catch up, as if they could.

At the end of the day, it seems that whatever the religion, tradition is likely to be stronger. I had to prove to my Buddhist friends that there are Buddhist communities who have attacked and killed Muslims. As I pointed out that's bad - but not as bad as the Iraq Iran war where Millions of Muslims were killed by each side. Tragic. :(
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Re: Jihad

Post by newcastle »

If the word "gay" didn't have certain connotations before, it certainly did after the camp performances of Larry Grayson :lol:


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