It's official

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It's official

Post by carrie »

Well it is now official that Donald Trump is to be the Republican party nominee for President of the USA. How many would have put money on this 12 months ago?
I actually think he will win, seems a year for the strangest things happening.


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Re: It's official

Post by Dusak »

If he does win, I think more probably a year of disasters happening. :a82:
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Re: It's official

Post by Who2 »

I warned you back in February about Trump.
It's not the candidate it's the general population of America.
Lets be honest they could endorse Superman, Micky Mouse and even Captain America as the majority of Americans level of reality
and cognisance doesn't rise above that of a jellyfish.

What America does should never amaze the rest of the World.... 8)

Then conquer we must when our cause it is just/And this be our motto:
“In God is our Trust.”/And the Star-Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave/O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.”
Francis Scott Key 1814.
Key also spoke publicly of Africans in America as
“a distinct and inferior race of people, which all experience proves to be the greatest evil that afflicts a community.”
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Re: It's official

Post by newcastle »

I just hope the idiots who vote for "Crooked Hilary" outnumber the idiots who vote for "Terminator Trump" :a82:
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Re: It's official

Post by Horus »

Between a rock and a hard place springs to mind.
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Re: It's official

Post by HEPZIBAH »

Who2 wrote: Lets be honest they could endorse Superman, Micky Mouse and even Captain America as the majority of Americans level of reality
and cognisance doesn't rise above that of a jellyfish.
I think I'd rather put my trust in any of the above, including the jellyfish, than in Donald Trump. Perhaps as well I don't live in America or have a vote on this though.
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Re: It's official

Post by newcastle »

I'm actually far more concerned that a man like Trump (insofar as one can judge anyone from media appearances, or what you read in the press etc.) could get anywhere near being elected president of USA, than that he actually might end up in the White House.

What does it say about the mentality....the attitude.....of our cousins over the pond?

Hopefully, the fact that his proposals, if he gets the presidency, would have to be approved by the (relatively sane?) congress & senate would obviate some of his excesses.
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Re: It's official

Post by Hafiz »

Cousins over the pond - really - didn't they throw you out twice. Remember the war of 1812. Do any English remember that war which burnt the White House? They kicked you out once and you came back to be kicked out a second time. My point is also that these 'sentimental' attachments mean nothing to Trump. Only third rate powers think there are 'sentimental' attachments. It makes them feel safe when they know there is no real meeting of key interests and it is only those common interests which is the basis of alliance.

I listened - through moments of 'abstraction' - to his 75 minute speech.

Ignoring that he lied on at least two facts that I know of (domestic violence and rates of illegal immigration and repatriation) it was a brilliant angry speech perfectly designed to appeal to those who think that the US has been run to the benefit of the few.

Don't get me wrong. He's dangerous and stupid. But that doesn't mean he is all wrong all of the time. For example NATO, Korea and Japan are freeloaders. free trade has destroyed US jobs, China and Japan have manipulated their currencies to destroy US jobs, no government can survive uncontrolled illegal immigration, international policing involving regime change and imposing western values have failed and cost the earth, domestic policy has been run to benefit the rich etc.

His basic argument is that the US is weak and less rich because it has not been selfish. He says they should stay home. For those leftists who have wanted the US to go home and stay home this should be the reward of generations of 'greenham common' activism. (be careful what you wish for). Decades of European derision about US materialism and crassness can only have had one effect - a dislike of European and other entanglements and a retreat to the homeland.

He doesn't have any answers and he lies about the facts but his competitor doesn't accept that these problems are serious and his supporters are so crazed, a bit like Brexit, that they believe his lies over government statistical facts. A bit like Boris.

Maybe its an entirely rational response to US insecurity. Maybe they need to retreat within their impregnable borders, desert their (expensive) allies, leave the world to sort out their own problems, establish trade barriers to suit themselves and beggar everyone else, stop trying to stabilize the world economy and currencies, ignore all human rights abuses, stop funding international development and peace keeping, leave Europe to Germany's tender mercies, focus on defeating Chinese economic and military threats, build their own economic dominance at the expense of everyone else, leave the UN (they never joined the League of Nations because they had always wanted to be on their own), stick only to real allies like Israel etc.

Who could blame them. There has been 70 years of ingratitude for the American peace and its free trade prosperity ( and the rebuilding of the UK, Europe and Japan) not to mention the condescension of the 'old world'. If I was one of the 50 million Americans on food stamps I would be asking how we can use our power to make us rich again whether on our own or at the expense of our false friends and enemies.

Hiliary, who like her husband derives her advice and funds from Wall Street, has no answers to any of these questions , indeed these are not even questions she thinks important. Whether she gets voted or not is irrelevant - the answer to who she is was given by the (Obama appointed) head of the FBI at congressional hearings when he was asked what would have happened to his subordinate had he/she made such an email mistake. He said they would have been fired. Michael Duffy, a senior editor at Time and a liberal, said the other evening that the only reason she is doing so well in national polls is that The Donald is such a poor opponent.

The Donald prospers on false and simple promises because there is no alternative.

Whether he will be elected - who knows. About the only certainty in the current situation is that hundreds of professional analysts and journalists - all of whom are paid a fortune to be right - have all been wrong in predicting how Trump has preyed on US anger and feelings of impotence. They have been universally wrong for all of the past 18 months which probably means they will be wrong for the next 4.

My attempt at a witticism is that he is not entirely half wrong - but I'm not sure which half is wrong.
Last edited by Hafiz on Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: It's official

Post by Ruby Slippers »

There was a 30 minute programme on UK TV on Monday evening, on Trump and some of his followers. I admit that it made my blood run cold at the thought he might be elected! :sd I think Hitler has been reborn in Trump!
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Re: It's official

Post by Hafiz »

Hitler wanted to dominate the world. He was European and not the only European that wanted a world empire. The US has never wanted that - quite the opposite.

In the case of The Donald he wants the US to retreat to its homeland - the opposite of what your fear and what Hitler and other Europeans and English wanted. The so-called Nazi policies of the Mexican wall and ban on Muslim immigration are not a persecution or domination of others but just a refusal to be subject to others. The opposite to domination.

The worst that we can expect is that we will be left to our own devices, without US support, and isn't that what our leftists have been have wanted for generations. To be liberated from US imperialism. We should be celebrating the idea that the US will leave us to our own devices. :urm: The Donald has already warned the Baltic states - maybe they could respond by starting to build an army - maybe the 'Europeans' could spend some real money to save themselves.

Maybe the Europeans could vote out the nasty Polish and Hungarian (extreme right wing) governments, maybe the Austrians will not vote for a Nazi President the second time round, maybe Madame Le Pen will not become the second party in France, maybe the saluting Nazi's in Greece will not do better in the next elections, maybe the Northern League in Italy will disappear after 25 years of right-wing prosperity, maybe developing nationalist parties in Germany will evaporate, maybe maybe. Lets get real - the nasties are where they have always been - in the heart of Europe. The Nazis aren't in the US.
Last edited by Hafiz on Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's official

Post by Dusak »

He may not want to dominate the world, but America sure makes their points felt in most of it.
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Re: It's official

Post by Horus »

:lol: :lol: :lol: Hey Hafiz, we won't even go into American colonialism, a rose by any other name.
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And check out 'Nazi America (A secret History)' episodes 1-9 available on Youtube, but then again most of your agendas are anti British or anti Europe, probably the old ex-colonial shoulder chip showing through. ;)
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Re: It's official

Post by newcastle »

I'm beginning to suspect Hafiz's mother was frightened by a marauding anglo-saxon whilst carrying him in her womb :lol:

He shows little gratitude or respect for the legacies we left to our "cousins" who departed for the West, and, later, the antipodes. Fine legal structures and a language to mention only two...although they've done their best to butcher the latter over the years.

Still....we must rise above it. Children will be children, even after a couple of centuries. :cg
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Re: It's official

Post by Hafiz »

Horus - well spotted. You are obviously on the ball.

Unfortunately for you my point wasn't about what our grandfathers did - god forbid and you have made powerful previous and recent points on this matter - but what exists now. I have learnt my lesson, well at least for the purposes of this post, :) and won't be dragging up the past to bolster my arguments at this precise moment. :D If I was I would be talking about the Mosely's, the Londenderry set and the Nazi sentiments of the Dukes of Windsor and Kent and large swathes of the aristocracy. But I'm not.

As far as I am aware there are no Nazis in Madison Square garden at this moment. But there are some goosestepping elsewhere.

My point was about the current US and European situation.

Good try :)

Is it not possible to have a cynical approach to UK and European history (what other approach is there) without attracting a knee jerk, and vaguely condescending, colonialist jibe? Is it being suggested that the only basis on which, for example, UK policy can be criticized is from a colonialist angle? Is it impossible to have a critical view based on rational grounds? If all criticism is to be interpreted, and discounted, in this way what is the point in having a critical view or should it be kept silent rather than be derided as prejudiced in some vague way. On this view are all criticisms prejudiced or only those of the citizens of former colonies :)

No my mother was not molested, nor was my grandmother or her mother. :D Many were - but not them. :D The Celts were maundered by all of the late arrivals. :D
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Re: It's official

Post by Ruby Slippers »

Don't be such a pedant, Hafiz! :) Perhaps I should have stated in my original post that the way Trump was playing on the fears of the American citizens in redneck country, reminded me of newsreels from the thirties, when Hitler was whipping up racial hatred in Germany! There was a worldwide depression then, too!
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Re: It's official

Post by Horus »

maybe the 'Europeans' could spend some real money to save themselves.

Well saying as the UK in particular has probably the best standing army, navy and air force within Europe and has just voted to renew it’s Trident nuclear submarine program at a cost of several billions of pounds, then I reckon that we do our fair share and a lot more towards European defence. Maybe if your own country did a similar amount in its own defence it would not have to rely on the American presence to protect it against the likes of China. Only quite recently (since about 2008) has Australia decided to boost its own armed forces in response to China’s military expansion in the area.

Figures show that Australia’s defence spending as a proportion of GDP was 2% for 2015, but when you take into account that the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in Australia was worth 1339.54 billion US dollars in 2015 and that the GDP value of Australia represents only 2.16 percent of the world economy, then it is not high when compared to the UK’s spending.

The UK's spending is slightly less percentage wise at 1.9%, however the Gross Domestic Product in the United Kingdom was worth 2848.76 billion US dollars in 2015, more than twice as much as Australia. The GDP value of the United Kingdom represents 4.59 percent of the world economy. So I suggest that you do the maths then decide who spends the most on their own defence and who relies most on the Americans for their own.
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Re: It's official

Post by Who2 »

Here is an intelligent American's view Michael Moore... 8)
http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/
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Re: It's official

Post by Horus »

Interesting article Dr
The one thing that Michael Moore gets right is big corporations screwing everyone over in search of mega profits. I watched something the other day on America’s richest 400 people who have a collective wealth that exceeds the total wealth of the other 95% of their countrymen and I don’t think the UK figures would be much better on a pro-rata basis. If a multi national company like Ford could make cars at a profit for all the years it existed in America, then it relocates to Mexico for bigger profits and destroys jobs in the bargain and Apple manufacture their phones in China, but don’t charge Chinese prices when they sell them, all in pursuit of even more profit and job losses, then who can blame Trump for saying he will level the field. It is not as if an i-phone will cost any more if they do, they cannot get any more expensive at several hundreds of £ or $ a time, it is just sheer corporate greed. We have the same in the UK with the likes of ‘Dyson’ a UK company that charges a fortune for what is fancy designed plastic appliances that perform little better than anything else on the market, but command high prices and he also moved his manufacturing to Asia once he cracked the UK market. If these goods were actually cheaper to buy when made abroad it may make some sense, but they are not, in fact they are often more expensive. So I reckon a bit of protectionism here and there would not be a bad thing, had we done that some years ago then maybe we would have still have a strong engineering and manufacturing base and produce much of the stuff we currently import, the eradication of our ability to produce steel in this country will be the next victim due to our inability to allow it the cheaper energy costs as happens elsewhere in the world. Trump is indeed a frightening proposition, but so was Brexit and maybe they are both what is needed to get our respective countries economies back on track again.
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Re: It's official

Post by newcastle »

Who2 wrote:Here is an intelligent American's view Michael Moore... 8)
http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/
Just been watching a prog on voter intentions in southern California....going by them. Trump will win. They are all p*ssed with Hispanics taking their jobs, undercutting them etc. etc.. They blame them for all their problems and want the "illegals" out.

It's an argument that worked for Brexit and the Americans might buy it too.

It wouldn't be the first time a monster with the right demagoguery has been elected...ask the Germans. :(

I wonder what Michael Moore will throw us in the way of hope? Is there a Michael Gove equivalent lurking in the background ready to shaft The Donald, rather as Gove shafted Boris? :lol:
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Re: It's official

Post by Who2 »

Henry Ford sold to the Nazis throughout WW2 as did General Motors & Coca Cola.
And then the ba*tard* charged us a fortune to insure democracy in the free world.
'Never let morals get in the way of profit'... 8)
Ps: I've had 3 Dysons all sh*t...
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