Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for converting

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Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for converting

Post by DJKeefy » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:58 am

Egyptian court sentences Christian family to 15 years for converting from Islam

The 15-year prison sentence given to a woman and her seven children by an Egyptian court for converting to Christianity is a sign of things to come, according to alarmed human rights advocates who say the nation's Islamist government is bad news for Christians in the North African country.

A criminal court in the central Egyptian city of Beni Suef meted out the shocking sentence last week, according to the Arabic-language Egyptian paper Al-Masry Al-Youm. Nadia Mohamed Ali, who was raised a Christian, converted to Islam when she married Mohamed Abdel-Wahhab Mustafa, a Muslim, 23 years ago. He later died, and his widow planned to convert her family back to Christianity in order to obtain an inheritance from her family. She sought the help of others in the registration office to process new identity cards between 2004 and 2006. When the conversion came to light under the new regime, Nadia, her children and even the clerks who processed the identity cards were all sentenced to prison.

Samuel Tadros, a research fellow at Hudson Institute's Center for Religious Freedom, said conversions like Nadia's have been common in the past, but said Egypt's new Sharia-based constitution "is a real disaster in terms of religion freedom.”

"The cases will increase in the future," Tadros said. "It will be much harder for people to return to Christianity."

President Mohamed Morsi, who was elected last June and succeeded the secular reign of Hosni Mubarak, who is now in prison, pushed the new constitution through last year.

Tadros said the constitution limits the practice of Christianity because “religious freedom has to be understood within the boundaries of Sharia.” He added that the constitution prescribes that the highest Sunni authority should be referred to as an interpreter of the religion clause contained in the constitution.

Opponents of the constitution, including Coptic Christians and secular and liberal groups, protested at the time against passage of the document because of the mix of Islamic-based Sharia law and politics. Roughly 10 percent of Egyptians are Coptic Christians.

A government spokeswoman told FoxNews.com she would determine “who is responsible for this and covers this issue in Beni Suef,“ a city of 200,000 located about 75 miles south of Cairo. She did not offer further comment.

The case is the latest example of the increasingly dire plight of the nation's roughly 7 million Christians, say human rights advocates.

"Now that Sharia law has become an integral part of Egypt's new constitution, Christians in that country are at greater risk than ever," said Jordan Sekulow, executive director of the American Center for Law and Justice. "This is another tragic case that underscores the growing problem of religious intolerance in the Muslim world. To impose a prison sentence for a family because of their Christian faith sadly reveals the true agenda of this new government: Egypt has no respect for international law or religious liberty.”

Morsi has been under fire for failing to take action against rising violence inflicted on Egypt’s Christians. In August, the roughly 100-family Christian community in Dahshour was forced to flee after Muslim neighbors launched attacks against the Christians’ homes and property. Morsi said the expulsion and violence was “ blown out of proportion.” Radical Salafi preachers -- who have formed alliances with Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood -- called for Muslims to shun Christians during Christmas.

Sekulow urged U.S. diplomatic intervention in Egypt to promote religious freedom. Morsi is scheduled to meet with President Obama, possibly in March.

”The U.S. State Department must play more of a role in discouraging this kind of persecution," Sekulow said. "The U.S. should not be an idle bystander. The U.S. provides more than $1 billion to Egypt each year. The State Department should speak out forcefully against this kind of religious persecution in Egypt.”

Benjamin Weinthal is a journalist who reports on Christians in the Middle East and is a fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

Source: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/01/16 ... erting-to/


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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by Bullet Magnet » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:11 am

My advice to this woman and her kids ? "When in Rome". :cool:

BUT, If you are Clever, .. :tk

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Normally when YOU adopt any man made religion, it's a Life Sentence... :cg
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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by BENNU » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:18 pm

Bullet Magnet wrote:My advice to this woman and her kids ? "When in Rome". :cool:

BUT, If you are Clever, .. :tk

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Normally when YOU adopt any man made religion, it's a Life Sentence... :cg
If "whatever the fv(k you were gonna do" is feed your children and to do this "in Rome", you depend on a man, it is a little difficult for a widow, who needs to be Christian in order to inherit her own family.

Religion is on the outside, faith on the inside.

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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by timetraveller » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:20 pm

Bullet Magnet wrote:My advice to this woman and her kids ? "When in Rome". :cool:

BUT, If you are Clever, .. :tk

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Normally when YOU adopt any man made religion, it's a Life Sentence... :cg

No BM. It is not! There are NO PENALTIES for converting AWAY from Christianity or renouncing the faith. Observance of the faith is voluntary. Which, to my mind, is exactly how it should be. For any religion. FAITH....NOT FORCE! Religious freedom should be a basic human right! :(

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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by Bullet Magnet » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:32 pm

You miss my point..

And Bennu provided the answer in her last 4 words regarding faith and expression... :tk
As did I provide the answer in my picture of R.D jr :cool:

I would NOT walk into a mosque in Luxor and shout,
"Hey God's chosen ones, off your knee's and come and join me for a bacon butty and a pint" !!! . That is just plain stupid and common sense.. :cg



I would never attack anyone for thier sexuality, or their colour, there is no choice for those people, and nothing that can be done about that.
It is just plain wrong to do so... :xx

When in Rome..!!!
May your body "appear" to be obeying the rules, but remember that your mind is Free !!!..


Get it :cool:

Edit:
I will visit them in prison and enquire as to who told them about this "Christianity" that they put so much faith into..
Maybe an Angel visited and told them to make marty's of themselves ? or not.. :cool:

An "Angel's" opening words in the Bible to Humans usually tend to be "Fear Not".. Makes you wonder, doesn't it .. :cg
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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by BENNU » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:55 pm

Bullet Magnet wrote: I would NOT walk into a mosque in Luxor and shout,
"Hey God's chosen ones, off your knee's and come and join me for a bacon butty and a pint" !!! . That is just plain stupid and common sense.. :cg



I would never attack anyone for thier sexuality, or their colour, there is no choice for those people, and nothing that can be done about that.
It is just plain wrong to do so... :xx

When in Rome..!!!
May your body "appear" to be obeying the rules, but remember that your mind is Free !!!..


Get it :cool:

Edit:
I will visit them in prison and enquire as to who told them about this "Christianity" that they put so much faith into..
Maybe an Angel visited and told them to make marty's of themselves ? or not.. :cool:

An "Angel's" opening words in the Bible to Humans usually tend to be "Fear Not".. Makes you wonder, doesn't it .. :cg
Nadia Mohamed Ali, who was raised a Christian, converted to Islam when she married Mohamed Abdel-Wahhab Mustafa, a Muslim, 23 years ago. He later died, and his widow planned to convert her family back to Christianity in order to obtain an inheritance from her family. She sought the help of others in the registration office to process new identity cards between 2004 and 2006.

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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by Bullet Magnet » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:59 pm

So this has NOTHING to do with TRUE faith then ? Eh Bennu.. :cool:

Still feeling sorry for her chasing the money tree.. ?

I pity the kids.. Suffer the Little Children and all that :cool:
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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by timetraveller » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:04 pm

Bullet Magnet wrote:You miss my point..

And Bennu provided the answer in her last 4 words regarding faith and expression... :tk
As did I provide the answer in my picture of R.D jr :cool:

I would NOT walk into a mosque in Luxor and shout,
"Hey God's chosen ones, off your knee's and come and join me for a bacon butty and a pint" !!! . That is just plain stupid and common sense.. :cg



I would never attack anyone for thier sexuality, or their colour, there is no choice for those people, and nothing that can be done about that.
It is just plain wrong to do so... :xx

When in Rome..!!!
May your body "appear" to be obeying the rules, but remember that your mind is Free !!!..


Get it :cool:

Edit:
I will visit them in prison and enquire as to who told them about this "Christianity" that they put so much faith into..
Maybe an Angel visited and told them to make marty's of themselves ? or not.. :cool:

An "Angel's" opening words in the Bible to Humans usually tend to be "Fear Not".. Makes you wonder, doesn't it .. :cg

No BM, I'm afraid I don't 'get it' at all. If I understand the article correctly this woman is not 'in Rome' she is in her own homeland, where she was born and raised as a Copt. There were presumably no penalties when she converted to Islam due to her marriage, and I can see no justifiable reason why she (and her children!) should be imprisoned because following her husband's death she has now decided to convert back. This, as far as I can see, amounts to religious persecution.

What you seem to be suggesting is that she should have stuck to the 'rules' and kept her conversion a secret. Why should she? What about freedom of religious expression? As far as I can see it is the 'rules' that are wrong, not her.

And. incidentally, there was a time, in the not too distant past, when even in Europe homosexuals were obliged to keep their sexuality a secret, or fall foul of the law. It is now widely accepted that this situation was plain WRONG. In my opinion, so is this one! :(

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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by Bullet Magnet » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:07 pm

Rome meaning "The Majority". EGYPT is classed as a Muslim country is it not. ?

Same as "You are what you eat".. Do not take it literally TimeTraveller.

Here is her problem as I see it.. man made religions can be confusing. So can the Love of Money, Money versus LOVE ???


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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by BENNU » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:10 pm

Bullet Magnet wrote:So this has NOTHING to do with TRUE faith then ? Eh Bennu.. :cool:

Still feeling sorry for her chasing the money tree.. ?

I pity the kids.. Suffer the Little Children and all that :cool:
I do not know what her faith is, and I do not know what I would do, if I depended on others as a woman, and seven children depended on me.

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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by Bullet Magnet » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:17 pm

Have Faith... :cool:

I expect these Children are not "that young" though...

All problems come with the solution built in I generally find.. :cg
and a problem cannot be solved from within the same state of mind in which it was created..

Right, I'm off for Lunch, Busy day and all that.. ;)
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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by timetraveller » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:33 pm

Bullet Magnet wrote:Rome meaning "The Majority". EGYPT is classed as a Muslim country is it not. ?

Same as "You are what you eat".. Do not take it literally TimeTraveller.

Here is her problem as I see it.. man made religions can be confusing. So can the Love of Money, Money versus LOVE ???


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So it's majority rule even when it comes to faith is it? Egypt may be 'classed' as a Muslim country but the fact is that the population is NOT exclusively Islamic. The Copts may be a small minority, but they are a long established one. And lets not forget that Copts were present in Egypt long before Islam even existed. In that sense, they could perhaps be seen as more 'Egyptian' than the majority population, who are largely descended from Ottoman invaders.

And who are we to question this woman's motives in converting back? It may be that she was 'chasing money' when she married out of her original faith and may have always regretted it. Or, it may be that she is now facing financial hardship due to her husband's death and needs the financial security of returning to her original faith and community. Whatever her reasons, it should be her choice and she should be free to make it!

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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by Bullet Magnet » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:17 pm

it should be her choice and she should be free to make it!

I agree Timetraveller :up

BUT, she has made her choice, and now the Newspapers have passed HER problem on to YOU... Lowereing your Vibration.. :urm:

on the Positive side, in Prison, she has a roof over head and meals to look forward to so will not starve to death.. :|
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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by DJKeefy » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:58 pm

Bullet Magnet wrote: on the Positive side, in Prison, she has a roof over head and meals to look forward to so will not starve to death.. :|
I did not expect you Bullet Magnet to write such a thing :o

You might as well be in hell then in a prison in Egypt, they normaly send you very far away so it's hard for the family to visit you, you only get fed on basic rations like foul(sp) (beans)that's if you family cant bring you food.

And what about the kids, they go to jail too according to the news heading :x
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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by timetraveller » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:06 pm

Not sure what my 'vibration' actually is BM, but I'm pretty sure it hasn't been lowered!!! :lol:

However, upset at the idea of this woman, and especially her children, going to jail for 15yrs? Well, yes actually, I am! :(

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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by Bullet Magnet » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:19 pm

Lowering the Vibe' is what I refer to as sadness, or taking away the good feelings.. TimeTraveller.


Keefy,

When people make decisions, they need to weigh up all the odds.
This lady has not made a good decision,

I know it is a serious issue being in an Arab Hate Factory, and this is why this lady needed to think very, very carefully.
Especially with all these warring factions vying for power right now.

This is why I do not read newspapers or watch the news. I keep myself informed, but I never get involved.

IF someone asks for help, then I am obliged to assist only if it is within my power to do so.

At the end of the day Keefy, WHAT can YOU or I do about it ? What can We on L4U do about it ?...

She has been married 23 years, so how old are these "kids". ?

I personally would do what I could from here, and that is to pray for her and her "children"..


As Brutal as we all think the court's decision is, we should learn from this.. ( positive thinking )


Identify and Know your Enemy..

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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by Bearded Brian » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:42 pm

Do egyptian IDs show their religion? Or is it a case of the ID being changed to show a Christian name? The headline states they have been jailed for 15 year for returning to christianity but was it really because they did something against the law as far as the ID is concerned - why charge the clerk?

My initial reaction was - after my next holiday to egypt (in just over 2 weeks time and my convictions aren't that strong to loose all the money I have already spent) I won't be returning but having re-read the article and raised the above questions I'll now wait and see before I finally decide to give Egypt a miss in the future. There are plenty of other countries in the world were I can go.

And just to clarify this isn't about being anti-muslim as I'm actually anti any religion it's about freedom to follow any religion you want.

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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by Dusak » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:34 pm

Freedom is a wonderful thing to have, when you are allowed to have it. How lucky are we.

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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by BENNU » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:46 pm

Bullet Magnet wrote:Have Faith... :cool:

I expect these Children are not "that young" though...
In 2004 she was responsible for seven children, faith or not. That is when she made her decision.

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Re: Court sentences Christian family to 15 years for convert

Post by Bullet Magnet » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:53 pm

Research the story using other sources.. :cool:

All is not as it is presented here.... FOX news should be a clue :sl:

FOX gave us The Simpson's Do'nt forget.. :cg

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Last edited by Bullet Magnet on Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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