Is The Garden of Eden Heaven?

[Aromagician]

I have been mulling this one over. Is the Garden of Eden heaven, or not?
Is it just a place where man and woman were created, or sprang from, another place, albeit a nice one. But is it heaven?

If what we know about it is true, then it was a place where Adam and Eve lived , yet were obedient to everything God said. Yet they were not one with God, they were still seperate.


Most mystics and philosophers and Gurus say that heaven is a place or a state of being where a person unites with God, Yoga- union with God, or the divine. Yet the relationship in the Garden of Eden, does that cover that description? Or is it more like the state we enter when we are born to the earth. As children we are often happy doing what our parents tell us, until the day comes, when we want to try everything for ourselves, and so starts the journey of experience.

Apparently I have read that the Archangel Michael stands at the gates of heaven. But is it also The Garden of Eden?

[Aromagician]

Just read this
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... 07069.html Which seems to imply the garden is in Eden, but is only a 6oth of it??


However, talmudic and midrashic sources know of two Gardens of Eden: the terrestrial, of abundant fertility and vegetation, and the celestial, which serves as the habitation of souls of the righteous. The location of the earthly Eden is traced by the boundaries delineated in Genesis 2:11–14. Resh Lakish declared, "If paradise is in the land of Israel, its gate is Beth-Shean; if it is in Arabia, its gate is Bet Gerem, and if it is between the rivers, its gate is Dumaskanin" (Er. 19a). In Tamid (32b) its location is given as the center of Africa. It is related that Alexander of Macedon finally located the door to the Garden, but he was not permitted to enter. The Midrash ha-Gadol (to Gen. 2:8) simply states that "Eden is a unique place on earth, but no creature is permitted to know its exact location. In the future, during the messianic period God will reveal to Israel the path to Eden." According to the Talmud, "Egypt is 400 parasangs by 400, and it is one-sixtieth of the size of Ethiopia; Ethiopia is one-sixtieth of the world, and the world is one-sixtieth of the Garden, and the Garden is one-sixtieth of Eden …" (Ta'an. 10a). The rabbis thus make a clear distinction between Eden and the Garden. Commenting upon the verse "Eye hath not seen, O God, beside Thee," R. Samuel b. Naḥamani states, "This is Eden, which has never been seen by the eye of any creature." Adam dwelt only in the Garden (Ber. 34b., cf., Isa. 64:3). The word le-ovedah ("to dress it"; Gen. 2:15) is taken to refer to spiritual, not physical, toil, and is interpreted to mean that Adam had to devote himself to the study of the Torah and the fulfillment of the commandments (Sif. Deut. 41). Although the eating of meat was forbidden him (Gen. 1:29), it is stated nevertheless that the angels brought him meat and wine and waited on him (Sanh. 59b; ARN 1, 5).

The boundary line between the earthly and heavenly Garden of Eden is barely discernible in rabbinic literature. In fact, "The Garden of Eden and heaven were created by one word [of God], and the chambers of the Garden of Eden are constructed as those of heaven. Just as heaven is lined with rows of stars so the Garden of Eden is lined with rows of the righteous who shine like the stars" (Ag. Song 13:55).

[Who2]

I think it's a place in Cornwall....

[Bullet Magnet]

Probably the Sahara, pre-desertification.

I wil dig out some of the sumer translations I have, I cant remember what Sitchin said about that.

One thing I am pretty sure of, if they were mining Gold on this planet, they certainly didn't take it off the planet with the same transportation that they allegedly arrived with
Common sense really..

[Teddyboy]

Words cannot always explain what we feel, or want to pass on to another. Surely, all these descriptions fail to get across to us what the writers REALLY wanted to say?

“ of abundant fertility and vegetation,”

How else would we expect a desert dweller to describe the ‘best’ place of his imagination?

“"Eden is a unique place on earth, but no creature is permitted to know its exact location”

What better description (given the fabulous nature of the depictions of Eden which we do have) of the place where the creature meets the Creator, which is surely the place of Heaven? Do we really believe that such a spiritual encounter must be limited to one particular, physical, location?

“during the messianic period God will reveal to Israel the path to Eden“?

Is not this a pointer to the Christian experience? Where Eden and Heaven are indeed located in the only place where the living flesh can actually meet with its Creator; the human heart?

"This is Eden, which has never been seen by the eye of any creature." Adam dwelt only in the Garden (Ber. 34b., cf., Isa. 64:3). The word le-ovedah ("to dress it"; Gen. 2:15) is taken to refer to spiritual, not physical,”

“spiritual, not physical” While we are ‘in the flesh’ we can see God only in the spiritual sense, as though through a darkened glass, and in the Garden, not in the full physicality of Eden/Heaven (but if God actually has any sort of physical being, then why would he have had to reveal himself in the man Jesus?)

Surely all of these texts, and a myriad others, are allegorical and are trying to explain the limited human understanding of our mysterious spiritual interaction with the loving Creator God. To look to them for a literal, physical, reality is nonsense!

[Who2]

Words cannot always explain what we feel, or want to pass on to another. Surely, all these descriptions fail to get across to us what the writers REALLY wanted to say?

“ of abundant fertility and vegetation,”

How else would we expect a desert dweller to describe the ‘best’ place of his imagination?

“"Eden is a unique place on earth, but no creature is permitted to know its exact location”

What better description (given the fabulous nature of the depictions of Eden which we do have) of the place where the creature meets the Creator, which is surely the place of Heaven? Do we really believe that such a spiritual encounter must be limited to one particular, physical, location?

“during the messianic period God will reveal to Israel the path to Eden“?

Is not this a pointer to the Christian experience? Where Eden and Heaven are indeed located in the only place where the living flesh can actually meet with its Creator; the human heart?

"This is Eden, which has never been seen by the eye of any creature." Adam dwelt only in the Garden (Ber. 34b., cf., Isa. 64:3). The word le-ovedah ("to dress it"; Gen. 2:15) is taken to refer to spiritual, not physical,”

“spiritual, not physical” While we are ‘in the flesh’ we can see God only in the spiritual sense, as though through a darkened glass, and in the Garden, not in the full physicality of Eden/Heaven (but if God actually has any sort of physical being, then why would he have had to reveal himself in the man Jesus?)

Surely all of these texts, and a myriad others, are allegorical and are trying to explain the limited human understanding of our mysterious spiritual interaction with the loving Creator God. To look to them for a literal, physical, reality is nonsense!

Flippin-eck! That's really deep, about as 'deep as an un-mudded lake or as 'shallow as showering sparrow in a puddle....
I've always assumed it's my gaff......
ps: it usually is....

[Teddyboy]

Sorry Who2, but I never know whether you're taking the Michael or what!

[Winged Isis]

I think he's dead serious, and not wrong, either!

The Jordanians (especially those in the tourism industry) would tell you Eden was in the Jordan River valley. Apropos of nothing, the apple tree was not specified as such in the Bible; it was just the Hebrew for "fruit" used in Genesis. Much later Western art started using the apple thereby destroying it's wholesome reputation; a much maligned fruit!

[Aromagician]

Well many Bible passages say as above so below. So one would presume if it exists in heaven, there has to be a corresponding place/ energy spot/ also on earth. The two seem to be intertwined.

So then is the Garden of Eden, not heaven, just a garden that is part of Heaven . re you saying Teddyboy that Eden is heaven?

But wasnt the garden part of earth? as God thrust man out of the garden into the wilderness. Like plants ripped out of their hothouse and sent somewhere else.

[LivinginLuxor]

You are writing about it as if it were a real place, not a myth! It could be based on desertification, and the folk memory of a green and pleasant land.

[Teddyboy]

"you saying Teddyboy that Eden is heaven?"

I'm saying that they are both the same state of mind, or the same spiritual reality. (Delete as necessary!)

As my mate Jesus is reported as asking "Why do you seek the living among the dead?"

Real life isn't actually like one of these very involved (but admittedly, very readable) novels where the 'Garden of Eden' is found inside a mountain, or the original 'Eve' is found locked away in an iron maiden in some secretive monastery. Heaven starts in the here and now! All I can tell you is that I found mine when I found God's limitless love for me obviously demonstrated in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. For other people it may be different, I've no idea. But what I do know; is that you're wasting your time 'seeking the living among the dead', and that you might well come to regret it some day!!!!!

[Teddyboy]

I've just noticed your silly 'signature':

"Remember that happiness is a way of travel, not a destination. ROY M GOODMAN"

Perhaps if you took those words of your 'Mr Goodman' to heart, you wouldn't be wasting your time "straining at gnats"!

[Bullet Magnet]

There is much subterfuge in the "Valley of Shadow's and Illusion" Mother Earth, Terra, whatever you want to call it.

ALL THIS, EVERYTHING is YOU...Even the Air that you breathe.. NOTHING exists beyond YOU, and ALL Matter and TIME exists at once in a single moment in time. Its ALL a Frequency..

YOU have no past, it is just a story, ALL you have is this moment NOW, and this moment, And this moment..

NEVER EVER Are YOU the same person twice.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO BE IN THIS MOMENT ? ? ?

[Bullet Magnet]

Allow me to explain Aromagicians signature..

If you look for happiness, then that is what you get back . looking for happiness.

Thats how God answers our "prayers" he says you are looking for happiness, then ok keep looking.
You always get what you ask for. That is the law.


If you live happiness in each moment, then God sees that and gives you more happiness back in each moment.

Religions know this and decive you. sytems won controlled from birth.

Life is as simple as just being happy in each moment and see each situation as a great gift of happiness.
Do not judge what you have been given. Thank god for each situation and belive that it is for the greater good. Do not use human beliefs that you were taught to belive in. God knows best.

I will explain god later, for now, god is a good explanation in human terms its what you understand..


Flee the prison, break the system, sins forgiven.. RISE !!!

[LovelyLadyLux]

Personally I never associated the Garden of Eden as Heaven. I always thought of it as more the most graphically beautiful, lush, gorgeous place on earth but not heaven.

I rather think that people and even by extension entire cultures have a beautiful wonderful place mentally constructed they can or could go to. I think we all innately have our mental 'safe and secure' place we can go to when our minds want comfort/solace/peace/safety/familiarity. I think that some are just able to put this place into words better than others but I think we all have it. Taking this concept to the extreme the Gardens of Eden notion commenced.

[Ra-Mont]

Some scholars have proposed that Adam and Eve may have been based on Akhenaten and Nefertiti because the king and his wife were usually depicted in a state of near nudity and were shown apparently fully naked on a wall of one of the Amarna tombs (I forget which, though I know where to find the reference) while living in Akhetaten, whose opulent surround may have inspired the fabled Garden of Eden. Indeed, as Ahmed Osman has pointed out, the Egyptian t corresponds to our d, so, with the vowels being arbitrary, the Garden of Eden could be read as the Garden of Aten, that is, (again in accord with Osman's work) the Garden of the Lord. Of course, the bible seems to place the garden in modern day Iraq, though that could be because the narrator didn't know where it was and so added some embellishment to his account.

R.J. Thompson.

[Teddyboy]

What was that song by the Spencer Davis Group? Ah yes: "Keep on Running"!

[Aromagician]

Some scholars have proposed that Adam and Eve may have been based on Akhenaten and Nefertiti because the king and his wife were usually depicted in a state of near nudity and were shown apparently fully naked on a wall of one of the Amarna tombs (I forget which, though I know where to find the reference) while living in Akhetaten, whose opulent surround may have inspired the fabled Garden of Eden. Indeed, as Ahmed Osman has pointed out, the Egyptian t corresponds to our d, so, with the vowels being arbitrary, the Garden of Eden could be read as the Garden of Aten, that is, (again in accord with Osman's work) the Garden of the Lord. Of course, the bible seems to place the garden in modern day Iraq, though that could be because the narrator didn't know where it was and so added some embellishment to his account.

R.J. Thompson.

That is an interesting theory Ra Mont. Especially seems many scholars believe that Adam, could also have been a translation of the word Atum. I had not heard of Eden being Aten, But is suppose that is possible too.

I have found that most stories, or religious tales are based on not only spiritual values, but physical happenings as well.

I had though the GArden of Eden was heaven. But talking to my husband about it- he is Catholic, he said that he always thought of it as a different place than heaven. As a place where God had placed Adam and Eve on Earth.

I have been reading about the heavens, and astrotheology. Most cultures ascribe the heavens to the skies, and the stars as particular destinations / heavens as homes for the different deities. Which I think is a spiritual place within side ones self, but also has a physical destination in the Universe, or place of energy.

Sirius for example has a profound place of significance within Masonic literature as a spiritual star. Yet also symbolises a place of spiritual power too.

I have been looking at the Orion Star belt, as is the said destination for the Pharoahs to go to when they die. Not sure which exact star they travel to in their sahu.

Mary is ascribed to the Stella Maris star.
I started thinking, so where is the Christian heaven? Is it Eden? Is there a heavenly destination associated withe the Garden of Eden, or is it solely on earth?

[Aromagician]

This guy here reckons there are 3 heavens in christianity, and gods heaven is highest above all the stars?

But no mention of Eden.
Teddyboy seems to think that heaven is a spiritual aspect only. Yet most cultures, and I am sure the ancient Christians were no different, also had a physical location albeit it on earth or on a particular heavenly body in the sky

See the link http://www.dividedbytruth.org/BTP/hbatq ... _chap7.htm
But I have discovered from the Bible that Heaven is a fixed location in the sides of the North beyond the highest star.
Here is an interesting passage: "Promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another" (Psalms 75:6,7).
Isn't that strange that the word "north" is left out? Why? Because promotion does come from the North. It comes from God. "He putteth down one, and setteth up another."
In Isaiah 14:12-17 we have the story of Lucifer, who became Satan. He said, "I will exalt my throne above God's throne." He said, "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds." He said, "I will do into the sides of the north."
Heaven, then, is a fixed location in the sides of the North. According to Isaiah 14, it is beyond the highest star.
Here in Isaiah 14 Satan said, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God." If he is talking about literal stars, he is talking about going out beyond what we call the second heaven.
There are three heavens. Paul said in 2nd Corinthians 12:2,4, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven...How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."
If there is a third Heaven, there is a second and first heaven. The first heaven is the atmospheric heavens where the birds fly. Says 2nd Peter 3:10, "...the heavens shall pass away with a great noise.' He is speaking of the atmospheric heavens. Psalm 19:1 says, "The heavens declare the glory of God. " This is talking about the second heaven--the starry or planetary heavens. And the third heaven, the paradise of God, where Christian's go and where Jesus is, is somewhere out beyond the last star, beyond the second or starry system.
I am told that the farthest star man has been able to locate through his most powerful telescopes is 500 million light years away. Light ravels a little more than 186,000 miles per second. That means if you could go 186,000 miles per second, it would take 500 million years to reach the last star that man has been able to locate, and Heaven is somewhere out beyond the highest star, in the sided of the North, according to Isaiah 14.
So when I said, "Up to Heaven," as a little boy, I was right, though I did not understand it. Any time you go North you are going up. Everybody says "up North" and "down South." And the North Pole is the top of the earth. So Heaven is up.
Heaven is real. It is a fixed location in the sides of the North, beyond the highest star.

End of Chapter Seven

[Bullet Magnet]

Akhenaton insisted on nudity, as he believd that wearing clothes promoted fear and helped disguise the body....

Only during ceremonies were certain items of clothing and finery as we would describe it were worn.

Did "Eve "decypher the tree of knowledge ? The forbidden fruit..

Let man not have the knowledge, lest he become gods like us.....

Anyhow, i have been at a social gathering with a few nurses this evening. A lovely bunch of people, but you would not want to get on the wrong side of them, having illuminating me on many methods of despatching people back to their maker without being detected.... clever girls..