Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefacts..

Luxor is ancient Thebes and has a fascinating past. Share your knowledge or ask your questions here.

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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Darkstar » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:36 am

newcastle wrote:
Darkstar wrote:Excellent article I have read quite a few of these over the years, seems strange that none of the archaeological or historian types on this forum have seen fit to post a rebuttal. Could it possibly be that they know the truth, yet, fail to acknowledge it? That would really upset their carefully crafted applecart.
If you 'google' any of the Ooparts mentioned in the article you will find discussions on them to fill the rest of your days. It's not a question of the scientific community having a 'carefully crafted applecart'. Scientific hypotheses & theories help us explain the world around us in a rational way and the best evidence that the theory holds tight is when you can use it to predict some hitherto unknown phenomenon. Einstein was particularly adept at this with his work on relativity which few of his contemporaries could even understand let alone concur with. So when something is observed which appears to contradict accepted theories it's not a case "hushing it up"...but seeking some rational explanation which fits in with accepted knowledge. What's so wrong with this? We do it all the time in our daily lives.

A good example is the human/dinosaur footprints. Most....actually all...scientists in the relevant fields simply don't think the "human" prints are actually human. Annoying I know! They can no more prove that they are, in fact, made by other smaller dinosaur-like creatures than the 'evolutionary-deniers' can prove they are made by humans. But the former explanation is unremarkable whilst the latter raises all sorts of questions for which the proponents have no answer (like...where did these 'early humans' come from & where did they go to). No-one seriously doubts evolution any more....we see it going on around us and the science of genetics has shown us the mechanism by which it operates'

But if you're happy to believe in "mysteries".... "alternative histories"...."a worldwide conspiracy by the scientific community to deny the truth" ....there's no harm in it (although you may have to put up with people thinking you're a bit weird).
It's not a question of the scientific community having a 'carefully crafted applecart'. Scientific hypotheses & theories help us explain the world around us in a rational way and the best evidence that the theory holds tight is when you can use it to predict some hitherto unknown phenomenon.
Really? In theory yes in practicality no. Dr west Phd (so he must be clever) along with other eminent geologists proved that the erosion on the great sphinx was caused by water namely rain, Zahi hawass banned him from working any more on the Giza plateau, because it proved the sphinx had to be over 10,000 yrs old and not built by Khufu. Please don't try to say archaeology is an exact science, it isn't. There are many examples of this kind too many to go into fully, If an artefact is found that shows they are wrong, it is either lost, ridiculed, or blatantly ignored. I DARE ANY ARCHAEOLOGIST TO PROVE ME WRONG .


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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Dusak » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:57 pm

The only problem with the sudden discovery concerning the type of artifacts first mentioned in this post, was that the eminent scientists and adventurous Victorians of that time where a very tricksy lot, inventing some of these relics and finds themselves, not only to enhance their reputations, especially when the new up and coming ones seemed to be getting the better of them, but it was a big financial business as the wealthy just loved to fund these things with paid expeditions across the globe in the hopes of finding the golden chalice to enhance their own self esteem within their own filthy rich circles.

I believe in all that my common sense tells me too, I believe in all possibilities and there are two sides too a coin, but could there be a third that we haven's seen yet. This whole planet and all that reside on it, is one of the greatest mystery's to date and we are no more closer to finding the truth of ''why us.'' But still, I think that all would agree that's its better to leave the door of imagination slightly ajar for the odd unexpected one to peek through whether you be a believer or not. After all, how many free thinking and very clever millions of people still live in hope of meeting God one day.
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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by newcastle » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:47 pm

Darkstar wrote:
newcastle wrote:
Darkstar wrote:Excellent article I have read quite a few of these over the years, seems strange that none of the archaeological or historian types on this forum have seen fit to post a rebuttal. Could it possibly be that they know the truth, yet, fail to acknowledge it? That would really upset their carefully crafted applecart.
If you 'google' any of the Ooparts mentioned in the article you will find discussions on them to fill the rest of your days. It's not a question of the scientific community having a 'carefully crafted applecart'. Scientific hypotheses & theories help us explain the world around us in a rational way and the best evidence that the theory holds tight is when you can use it to predict some hitherto unknown phenomenon. Einstein was particularly adept at this with his work on relativity which few of his contemporaries could even understand let alone concur with. So when something is observed which appears to contradict accepted theories it's not a case "hushing it up"...but seeking some rational explanation which fits in with accepted knowledge. What's so wrong with this? We do it all the time in our daily lives.



A good example is the human/dinosaur footprints. Most....actually all...scientists in the relevant fields simply don't think the "human" prints are actually human. Annoying I know! They can no more prove that they are, in fact, made by other smaller dinosaur-like creatures than the 'evolutionary-deniers' can prove they are made by humans. But the former explanation is unremarkable whilst the latter raises all sorts of questions for which the proponents have no answer (like...where did these 'early humans' come from & where did they go to). No-one seriously doubts evolution any more....we see it going on around us and the science of genetics has shown us the mechanism by which it operates'

But if you're happy to believe in "mysteries".... "alternative histories"...."a worldwide conspiracy by the scientific community to deny the truth" ....there's no harm in it (although you may have to put up with people thinking you're a bit weird).
It's not a question of the scientific community having a 'carefully crafted applecart'. Scientific hypotheses & theories help us explain the world around us in a rational way and the best evidence that the theory holds tight is when you can use it to predict some hitherto unknown phenomenon.
Really? In theory yes in practicality no. Dr west Phd (so he must be clever) along with other eminent geologists proved that the erosion on the great sphinx was caused by water namely rain, Zahi hawass banned him from working any more on the Giza plateau, because it proved the sphinx had to be over 10,000 yrs old and not built by Khufu. Please don't try to say archaeology is an exact science, it isn't. There are many examples of this kind too many to go into fully, If an artefact is found that shows they are wrong, it is either lost, ridiculed, or blatantly ignored. I DARE ANY ARCHAEOLOGIST TO PROVE ME WRONG .
You brought up the applecart :zz . No-one has "proved " the erosion of the sphinx was caused by water...nor that, if it was,that such water could only have done its work 10.000 years ago. It's a reasonable hypothesis based on rather uncertain knowledge as to the climatic conditions. I, for one, would love to see Hawass take yet another prat fall on this issue. Did I say archaeology was an exact science?? Probably one of the least exact. There are very many more examples of Ooparts that have now been explained satisfactorily (to all but the mentally disturbed) than those which still require some explanation. In the meantime...little green goblins or whatever might be as good a guess as any. God himself is the explanation of the inexplicable to more than half of humanity....maybe he built the sphinx :tk Archaeologists.....in fact scientists generally.....are not in the business of proving people wrong but seeking for facts & truths.

At the end of the day we are faced in many 'scientific' situations, with balancing probabilities of one explanation against another. People who ridicule the minority view are no better than those whose claim the majority are engaged in some kind of 'cover-up'. Both show, in my view, a marked lack of maturity. :cg

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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Darkstar » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:12 am

Newcastle, yes I did bring up the 'applecart' analogy, but the first sentence in my last post was a quote from yours :roll: Who mentioned cover-ups? I was talking about denial. Archaeologists have built up a picture of how civilisation has evolved, if anything comes along to show they could be wrong they immediately close ranks to protect their idealised time frame. They are only interested in facts and truths when it suits their purpose, This viewpoint is not a marked lack of maturity, it is from looking around with eyes open.
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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by newcastle » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:48 am

Darkstar wrote:Newcastle, yes I did bring up the 'applecart' analogy, but the first sentence in my last post was a quote from yours :roll: Who mentioned cover-ups? I was talking about denial. Archaeologists have built up a picture of how civilisation has evolved, if anything comes along to show they could be wrong they immediately close ranks to protect their idealised time frame. They are only interested in facts and truths when it suits their purpose, This viewpoint is not a marked lack of maturity, it is from looking around with eyes open.
The lack of maturity is the concept that archaeologists generally are in denial...covering up.....closing ranks ....etc. etc.. Can't you accept that different experts have different opinions and come to different conclusions? You can believe the minority...or go with the majority....or , if you know anything about it yourself (do you?), come to your own conclusions.

Whatever. :stp

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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Bullet Magnet » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:49 pm

My best guess, is that there have been at least 4 GREAT civilisations on this planet of our's most more technologically advanced than we are today.
But unlike us, most of these worked in harmony with this earth, and as such benefited greatly.

A Good Question to ask yourself is, How does the Dogon tribe possess advanced astronomical knowledge, especially about Sirius.
That shoudl really make you think, especially if you are a visitor to Egypt and understand at least a little symbolism.
For example, the triangle within a triangle.. I will say no more, other than what you think you know about the "Pharaohs" is not true..
That Sphynx's nose was removed fro a very good reason... :cg
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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by BENNU » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:19 pm

Bullet Magnet wrote: I will say no more, other than what you think you know about the "Pharaohs" is not true..
That Sphynx's nose was removed fro a very good reason... :cg
We all know that! It has been documented:
phpBB [video]

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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by newcastle » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:47 pm

The Dogon Sirius B mystery is just that....a mystery (well....to me at least). I'm certainly unimpressed with the suggestion that they picked it up from visiting anthropologists. Wouldn't be the usual line of conversation for them, would it?

Pure coincidence....of a mythical belief with actual reality.....is always a possibility. But, as a mathematician who deals in probabilities, I find this a bit too improbable to be comfortable with.

So....an extra-terrestrial visitation? Then (as with other theories concerning advanced technologies acquired from 'visitors') I ponder : where is the evidence? Why did they depart and allow us to regress? And many, many more questions!

Fortunately (for my peace of mind) I'm not burdened with having to have an unassailable explanation for everything. For the time being I'm happy to go with the coincidence explanation but won't be too troubled if further evidence turns up to support "nommos"...e.g. Sirius C

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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Bullet Magnet » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:18 pm

Well many say Napoleon had the nose of the Sphinx removed or even shot off, but somehow I doubt that. It is possible, given the timing of Napoleons brief occupation of Egypt.. 33 years after that occupation, something that may seem unrelated happened, a law was passed...

The Egyptian history shows that they devolved, the oldest pyramids are the best, they knew all about complex maths, levitation, and chemical reactions.
Later pyramids are the result of sweat and tears and mechanical technology, and even then, that technology was lost to them eventually..

This was a result of one race being introduced to another race, Alien they may have seemed, but they were not alien.
The Occupation started and so the true Egyptians left in the end... Where did they go ? well, only one direction they could have gone isn't there ?
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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Darkstar » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:59 am

newcastle wrote:
Darkstar wrote:Newcastle, yes I did bring up the 'applecart' analogy, but the first sentence in my last post was a quote from yours :roll: Who mentioned cover-ups? I was talking about denial. Archaeologists have built up a picture of how civilisation has evolved, if anything comes along to show they could be wrong they immediately close ranks to protect their idealised time frame. They are only interested in facts and truths when it suits their purpose, This viewpoint is not a marked lack of maturity, it is from looking around with eyes open.
The lack of maturity is the concept that archaeologists generally are in denial...covering up.....closing ranks ....etc. etc.. Can't you accept that different experts have different opinions and come to different conclusions? You can believe the minority...or go with the majority....or , if you know anything about it yourself (do you?), come to your own conclusions.

Whatever. :stp
Of course I can accept different opinions from different experts, as long as it is the same field of expertise :!: How can Zahi Hawass an archaeologist, tell a professor of geology that he is wrong? especially when other geologists are in agreement, has he suddenly become an expert in earth sciences? This is the point I am making durr :roll: Why was Dr Joanne Fletcher banned from working in Egypt again by Hawass? because she dared say something to the contrary to mainstream theories. At the end of the day archaeology is not an exact science and should not be treated as such. All theories should be welcomed until disproved, but they are not.
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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Who2 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:12 am

Q;Why was Dr Joanne Fletcher banned from working in Egypt again by Hawass? because she dared say something to the contrary to mainstream theories.

Far more likely that she spurned his amoral advances.... :cool:
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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Bullet Magnet » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:00 am

The WORLD is symbolic... A Bold statement, but it is... and to make it easier, lets say in more ways than one.
colours, shapes, sizes and frequency and numbers, they are all relevant.
many cultures shared the same symbolism, so I am pretty sure that the symbolism displayed by the Ancients would be no different in their translation, despite them being reinterpreted as something else by "the System"

Joanne Fletcher must have figured some of it out to have identified Nefertiti, who although beautiful could not be trusted in the end ( Nefertiti that is, NOT Joanne ) :cool:

Now I do not care for conspiracy theories, some may or may not be true, either way, I do not care, because it does not effect me at my human level.
At best, the theories make good stories. AT WORST, they will drag you down and own you... You'll reap what you sow..
Yes, some pure evil deeds have been committed and indeed still are being committed, but that does not matter because we are in what I call The End Days right now... :o
NO, not a great Biblical Apocolypse, just the witnessing of something that did not belong here on Earth passing. It was invited, it was allowed to break the rules, all by intent. But before it passes it will be identified for what it is, and people are being prepared for it, all be it slowly and not in the time that it was supposed to have happened, but happen it will, it is inevitable,

There are some very uncomfortable truth's out there... Many...
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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by newcastle » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:58 am

Darkstar wrote:
newcastle wrote:
Darkstar wrote:Newcastle, yes I did bring up the 'applecart' analogy, but the first sentence in my last post was a quote from yours :roll: Who mentioned cover-ups? I was talking about denial. Archaeologists have built up a picture of how civilisation has evolved, if anything comes along to show they could be wrong they immediately close ranks to protect their idealised time frame. They are only interested in facts and truths when it suits their purpose, This viewpoint is not a marked lack of maturity, it is from looking around with eyes open.
The lack of maturity is the concept that archaeologists generally are in denial...covering up.....closing ranks ....etc. etc.. Can't you accept that different experts have different opinions and come to different conclusions? You can believe the minority...or go with the majority....or , if you know anything about it yourself (do you?), come to your own conclusions.

Whatever. :stp
Of course I can accept different opinions from different experts, as long as it is the same field of expertise :!: How can Zahi Hawass an archaeologist, tell a professor of geology that he is wrong? especially when other geologists are in agreement, has he suddenly become an expert in earth sciences? This is the point I am making durr :roll: Why was Dr Joanne Fletcher banned from working in Egypt again by Hawass? because she dared say something to the contrary to mainstream theories. At the end of the day archaeology is not an exact science and should not be treated as such. All theories should be welcomed until disproved, but they are not.
This last sentence seems a more balanced comment Darkstar. Rubbishing the opinions of others is, as I said, immature. Particularly so when it's done by someone with scant knowledge of the subject. And you're right about Hawass. Some would even question his expertise in the field he espouses. But I think his actions should be not be taken as representative of the field of archaeology as a whole. Most experts in this (as in any field) are able to discuss their different viewpoints rationally & without rancour. At the end of the day they may just have to agree to differ....whilst continuing the search for further evidence in the hope of conclusively proving their opinion....or conclusively disproving that of their opponents. Both sides have a long way to go....in my humble opinion as a non-expert!

People like Hawass do the field of archaeology no service with their petulance. Most archaelogists think the proponents of "earlier civilisation" theories are just plain wrong....and leave it at that.

Incidentally...Joanne Fletcher's "ban" was temporary and she has worked in Egypt since the Nefertiti debacle. Hawass's action...he said...was because she "broke the rules"....ahem!! There has been recent evidence supporting her view that the mummy concerned may indeed be Nefertiti.

Finally....re the Sphinx's nose. Definitely (dare I say that :lol: ) NOT shot off by Napoleon. It appears to be missing on drawings made many years before the little man came to Egypt.

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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Frater0082 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:06 pm

Hye everyone long time no see!

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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Bullet Magnet » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:05 pm

Good Evening Frater, :up

I was wondering where you had got to..
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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Frater0082 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:32 pm

Oh i've been around actually i've been peaking around just waiting on some news from Egypt. Even though there is none archaeologically I found some pretty bad ones some that i've found pretty disturbing like the stealing of artifacts I fear that something the Royal family might also be in jeopardy as well I pray that my fears will not come to light.

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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Dusak » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:50 am

:tk ... exit stage left, me thinks...
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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Frater0082 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:28 pm

Dusak wrote::tk ... exit stage left, me thinks...
did I say something wrong

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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by BBLUX » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:38 pm

You said something ;)
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Re: Welcome to the world of Ooparts, or Out of Place Artefac

Post by Dusak » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:23 am

Frater0082 wrote:
Dusak wrote::tk ... exit stage left, me thinks...
did I say something wrong
No Frater0082, just one of my sweat laden early morning puns. You carry on making people think for once instead of perpetually agreeing with others. :up
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