Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

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Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by Hafiz »

The locals are getting organized to increase international tourism to Luxor and are self funding.

They are clear that national/government programs have left them out. Wonder why? Maybe if they could get the Egyptian property/building billionaires to invest in Luxor the government might be more forthcoming.

They are playing their cards close but are looking to approach charter airlines, they mention Air Berlin, and are optimistic about results in September. Seems a quick result for their efforts. Germany and England are their targets although they also mention Japan, Korea and China. Bit difficult, all this, on a small budget and starting to look a bit unfocused.

At this point the ‘story’ gets a bit confused with big budget J Walter Thompson getting involved.

The report mentions the Egyptian Tourism Activation Authority. Presumably the body that ignores Luxor and Aswan, and has this complaisant quote from one of their high officials:

“Alaa Abdel Wahab, head of the domestic tourism sector at the Tourism Activation Authority, said that Luxor’s hosting the UNWTO’s meeting will help boost tourism to Luxor.

He explained that these meetings include big conferences with large delegations, which should help tourism in the area.

He pointed out that Luxor cannot attract tourists during the summer due to the high temperatures.

He stressed that the authority follows the ideology and strategy of alternative markets to restore the movement of markets and to diversify tourism. He added that the Authority will organize various events and activities, whether cultural or entertainment, to bring tourists to Luxor and Aswan.”

Not really much for Luxor from that man. UNWTO (3 or 4 day conference) will do it for him.

UNTWO is the UN agency, not a particularly distinguished one, which ... well its all a bit unclear....but it deals with tourism and its holding its world congress in Luxor this year. The UK has withdrawn from it and a management review of it was scathing https://www.unjiu.org/en/reports-notes/ ... nglish.pdf so no one should be fooled that it is up to much.

The report states that the actual operators admit to 10% occupancy rates at the moment.
http://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2016/08/2 ... xor-aswan/

Press reports on the Tourism Activation Authority list some really hairbrained marketing ideas but I’m sure its stacked with the best of Cairene middle class minds and its activities seem to provide lots of opportunities for international travel and meeting like-minded people: http://www.dailynewsegypt.com/tag/touri ... authority/

Maybe the locals can do no worse with their pennies that the Authority but on a fraction of their state budget.


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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by newcastle »

I wish them luck but no matter what effort is put into promoting Luxor and Aswan, they are faced with the current perception that Egypt is unsafe.

This, in turn, results in a dearth of interest from the public, and a consequent decline in the interest of tour operators and airlines in marketing the two cities.

A re-education of the media and public on the on-the-ground situation and, perhaps, the geography of Egypt would be an unusual approach but I can't see anything else having much impact .
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by Major Thom »

Totally agree Newc., to say Egypt is not a destination in the Summer months us rubbish, when we were tourists we would come and go as we wanted, mind you the infrastructure. Was good then, AC on demand, fans and atomisers in most places.

Like you say though how will they get over the safety issue? We were talking to some Aussies yesterday and could not believe they knew about the turmoil on the visa front for people that had bought property, invested or retired. They told us they had read about it in a newspaper, a visitor to Egypt had wrote to the newspaper and told how people that had invested were now getting thrown out of Egypt for no reason. We were staggered they knew anything about that. It goes to show how news travels. They asked us why we wanted to live in a Country where people get shot for saying the wrong things, or men and women disappear without trace never to be seen again. It these things I suppose needs addressing first, because it's these concerns tourists have, their own personal safety.
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by carrie »

I too find it strange MT that these things should be reported in the Australian press. Perhaps either Winged Isis or Hafiz could tell us more :?:
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by Major Thom »

It was apparently in a local newspaper in a letters section written by a tourist. I could hardly believe my ears, for I thought this was a local issue. I suppose though locals and tourists do come across each other and ask questions, and at one time this was a state of emergency issue for those wanting to stay in Egypt, I remember all the posts on here and different places.
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by crewmeal »

Maybe it's time for the travel industry in Egypt to 'reinvent the wheel' and aim at the UK market. This could be achieved by boat owners as such inviting agents for a weeks tour up and down the Nile. I'm sure top agents such as Tommy Cook, Thomson, Jet2 holidays, even the BBC would only be too glad to join a boat. However I don't think this will be achieved until Sharm is firmly back on the map.

Another disadvantage is the lack of travel programmes on the main BBC and ITV channels. They seem to be relegated to satellite channels. There is even a cruise channel which does not promote The Nile at all.

Having just returned from 2 weeks on The Nile I felt safer there than I ever will in Birmingham where there are stabbings and gun crime reported daily.
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by carrie »

After the disaster at Hatchepsut, Egypt Air or the government subsidized flights to Egypt to try to bring the tourists back, unless they do that again, I can't see Luxor in particular, ever regaining the tourist levels it once enjoyed.
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by Who2 »

Quote: "I can't see Luxor in particular, ever regaining the tourist levels it once enjoyed."
Hopefully, No truer words spoken.

On the other hand MT's related Luxor experiences here, won't attract to many 'gazunders to ancient Egypt methinks.
Forget the 'kiss me quick brigades and concentrate on Egypt's' original travellers those interested in what Egypt was famous for,
It's amazing heritage & history.... 8)

Ps: 32 million tourists visited London last year alone.....
Pss: 800,000 even visited Stonehenge which is just old stones...
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by Horus »

The problem is more deep seated than promotions and TV advertising. While places such as Hurgada & Sharm are seen as being more lively and attracting people throughout the age range, it is not the case with Upper Egypt. First of all that area has to have a particular attraction for you and that attraction is mostly the ancient history and the temples along the Nile. How many people in the younger age group actually have an historical interest in Egypt? I would say it is more likely to be people who fall into a certain age group that visit Luxor, one that has raised a family and are middle aged, with more freedom and time to soak up some culture, although there are of course always exceptions to this

A good many of those visiting would fall into the UK ‘baby boomer’ group who soon became the more affluent post war group of people to travel. They mainly wanted nice affordable hotels and a laid back holiday, places to dine in the evening and a bit of ‘fake’ Egyptian entertainment. They wanted cruise boats without children on-board so they could sip a G&T in peace and watch the world go by as they cruised the Nile.

They would have been in their 50’s during the boom years for Egypt, now that same group will be approaching 70 years old, but are there as many people in today’s similar age group who have developed the same interest in Egypt as their predecessors had? Most of this baby boomer age group are pretty resilient when it comes to a single shocking event and usually bounce back after a short time, but the constant barrage of bad news regarding the attacks and unrest caused by religious fanatics will have taken its toll and many will now look for what they perceive to be safer alternatives, such as cruising the oceans instead.

There is also a change in many peoples attitude towards foreign holidays even amongst the younger generation, many of whom have children and as such will not risk going to Middle East countries as they see them as being too dangerous so are choosing the more traditional destinations such as Spain & Cyprus. I also know many people who now choose to holiday within the UK as they consider that to be the best option in what they perceive as dangerous times to travel abroad.

Tourists in general have always floated above the local culture and most just take it in their stride as it does not really affect them very often, they can still sunbathe or have a few drinks and usually only have to pay lip service to local culture. However this has changed in recent years and people are now more aware that they are in fact a target because of their different culture to the one they are visiting and this makes many people nervous and reluctant to visit these countries. To my mind there is no doubt that the rise in Islamic fundamentalism is the main game changer for UK tourists not wanting to visit places like Egypt and this attitude is unlikely to change in the near future.
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by newcastle »

The above analysis makes sense to me.

There are as many, probably more, 50- somethings looking for a cultural experience now as there was pre-2011.

What has changed, certainly as far as Egypt, is concerned, is the geo-political scenario and, after 5 years of setback upon setback, tourism has halved.

As I've already said, without a significant improvement in the security outlook for the region, and the rising perception that islam is a threat to the western way of life, I don't see any prospects for a meaningful recovery.
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by Dusak »

When we were tourists and the streets were clogged with them, you get talking to others. Most stated that they were here for the sun and laid back attitude, [as was our main reason] not the hustle and bustle of their home countries. A few did say they had an interest in the cultural and history side of Luxor as well as the above. But the most common ''we like coming here because'' statement was the ability to wonder freely and safely around the city, stopping off at the many restaurants and drinks dens for a quiet, or noisy one, depending on their likes without the need to rush, not the running of the gauntlet we have had for several years now. Non of this now exists to the degree as it used to with the exception of its heritage and history, but there is only so much most can take of that without any other options. Luxor is soulless, disorganized, not that welcoming and to a certain degree, quite depressing to most visitors and certainly not as cheap a destination as it used to be. I guess it would take the complete ending to all possible terrorist threats and a few billion $ of investment to turn this rapidly flowing tide of disinterest, not that there is the slightest possibility of either of those two things coming to fruition.
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by carrie »

Just listened to Jane Askar pleading the cause for Luxor on radio 4, her 27 flats are almost empty, she has had to lay off staff, the wife of her chef who she had to lay off has died from cancer because he couldn't afford her care. It's safe here etc etc. can't honestly say she made a convincing argument.
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by Who2 »

Just perhaps she is on a diet, due to the 'relapse in tourism,
alway's alway's there is a 'silver-lining, it's called 'tightening one's belt'
sometimes one just can't see it...8)
Ps: What was she on, question time? just a minute ? the archers no-doubt ? 'can we listen again ? ? ?
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by carrie »

You and Yours. Don't know if it is repeated.Just found it if you go to Radio 4 website, then click on schedule, You and Yours pops up for today. 12.30pm you can listen to it from there.
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by Horus »

Fair do’s to the Dr. he just wishes the tourists would go away and leave him in peace and I am certain that he will get his wish. There is very little appetite in the UK for travel to the Middle East, it is seen as being dangerous and unstable regardless of the country involved. No amount of pleading is going to change that, the younger generation may be tempted back to places like Sharm, but you can rule out Upper Egypt, it is on it’s knees and will never get up again. Unfortunately it has reached a point of decline that can only get worse, it is a self fulfilling prophecy. The place is dirty and unkempt and without investment that will only get worse, but who is going to make the investment? Not the government, they have far bigger problems with the economy and internal politics to divert scarce resources to that end. For those that do come all they see is poor facilities and aggressive hassle that again can only deteriorate further as work becomes scarcer and the infrastructure falls into further disrepair. What the locals do not realise is that this aggressive hassle and double dealing that many Egyptians in Luxor ascribe to only reinforces the tourist’s view that they are vulnerable and not really welcome. The same can be said of security, it must be visible, but not so heightened as to scare people off, sloppily dressed guards wandering around temple sites with one finger up their nose and the other on the trigger of a kalashnikov doesn’t help either, nor does being followed by droves of poorly paid guardians all on the make.
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by Who2 »

I tried to 'listen again' but all I get is.....The sound of silence, which I suppose is 'no bad thing... 8)
Ps: Joke it's a joke....
Pss: quote: "Fair do’s to the Dr. he just wishes the tourists would go away and leave him in peace and I am certain that he will get his wish."

No question!, I got it, back on the 25 January 2011, I remember it well...'around about 3.30pm... 8)
P*ss: This is a slice of a revolutionary street flag we 'nicked & shared during the whole debacle, that's democracy for you.....
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by Hafiz »

Who2 - thinner is always better. Our large friend has not responded to my other incitements so I wonder whether there is any substance to her pervasive puff.

My point (not clear) was that the big touristic investments under Mubarak and his successors has been on the coast and that these politically connected investors have hijacked most of touristic marketing money. Egypt has been made into a beach economy touristic destination because that is where all the politically connected money has been invested.

Here is a question. When, exactly, did an Egyptian billionaire last, or ever, invest a single dollar in Luxor?

My point was also that the local tourist investors (with the possible exception on Bombay) have now, years after the event, worked out that they are out on their own. Without economic patrons the state will not help them. Fools for them being so slow.

The politically connected money is on the coast and the state will use taxpayers money to help them.

It cannot be a bad beginning that the locals are taking personal responsibility for their problems and discarding generations of trust in government solutions.

The (UK) aliens draping themselves in flags could do worse than help the new local initiative because, as Bill Clinton so memorably put it, 'its the economy stupid'. Its not the Governor (that they love so much) - he is under strict instructions to help the coast.

Newcastle is always right. Well... maybe not. There are growth markets out there which are dangerous - if you know how to sell them you can make money. Do I need to list them. I do. South Africa has the worst crime rates in the world but builds tourism. Kenya kills French in wheel chairs (the wheelchair should be deplored) but does well. India is full of rape and horror but does well. Jamaica is one of the most violent places on earth but attracts tourists. Long term, stupid western tourists will ignore general warnings and convince themselves (or be convinced) that there are enclaves of calm in chaos. Some of the more perverse will even 'get off' on the danger (think P J O'Rourke 'Holidays from Hell').

Long term, who in Egypt is thinking long term, Luxor may be OK. Mature age cultural tourism and much undervalued backpackers may deliver the low volume high profit trade everyone wants. How to get to that sweet spot. Not with government assistance - its obsessed with high volume low profit coastal stuff. What is worse is that the 'coastal trade' has lower employment than the cultural tourism option.
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by Who2 »

I disagree all the cement here is supplied by Nagib, no Nagib no stupid unfinished useless houses or hotels.... 8)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naguib_Sawiris
Ps: Nagib invests in profit, just like any good 'capitalista....
Pss: China was on it's knees once, now look at the 'buggers All it takes is a brain and lots of brawn...
The main problem here I see is that they are all 'lazy buggers...and they aren't starving, we need to starve them to make to work....
"Work or Die" as stated by Puff Daddy & Stalin....
or even " Arbeit macht frei" as Hitler succinctly put it...
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by Hafiz »

Who2 - you get more license than you deserve.

Are you are being paradoxical/ironic/silly. Who knows. There could be some sense to it - I search your tea-leaves for it - or maybe the grit at the end of a bottle of red.

As regards your well connected corporate friends - I made a big mistake in an earlier post where I said that their commercial interests were secured by 40-50 MP's, personally owned, in the lower house of the Egyptian Parliament. For once I understated. The number of their legislators is much larger, possibly 65. This makes them the single largest political party in Egypt. Not bad for property developers (never in Luxor) and former telecom owners. A lot of their money has been moved to the Netherlands around the time that uncle Mubarak fell off his perch. Smart people.

Imagine. General Motors funds 20% of the US Senators. My knowledge of US history is that the big interests, the Rockefeller's, Mellon's and Carnegie's never got within a bull's roar of that influence. In Egypt the big (always local) money runs the politics - who ever is in power. They also own the newspapers and TV stations in case opinion needs to be managed. Its a kleptocracy.

Maybe the solution to Luxor's problems would be to offer the Sawiris family carte blanche in Luxor. Options to meet their view of capitalism could be adopted - slavery could be re-introduced, Tax-free holidays for friends, no planning laws, free government land. Maybe they could get their close personal friends, the North Koreans, to invest in Luxor.
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Re: Tourism, Luxor – Local Initiative.

Post by newcastle »

Even Hafiz gets it right occasionally ;)

There are more dangerous tourist destinations than Upper Egypt. Why it has suffered disproportionately is something a psychologist might need to address.

The entire middle east is a no-go area these days. Well....compared to pre-9/11.

The islamic/terrorist undertones seem to resonate far more than being mugged or kidnapped which, let's face it, can and does happen everywhere .

No amount of expenditure on promotion or whatever will alter this perception. .....IMHO.
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