Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Friend

Advice, information and discussion about Egypt in general.

Moderators: DJKeefy, 4u Network

Post Reply
User avatar
Hafiz
V.I.P
V.I.P
Posts: 1284
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 614 times
Been thanked: 632 times
Gender:
Australia

Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Friend

Post by Hafiz »

There are lots on complaints on this site about garbage, its smells, visual pollution and the failure of government to clean it up. Well, maybe there is another way.

The garbage collecting Zabbaleen (the word means garbage people) Copts of Cairo are well known for their poverty and enterprise in recycling the waste of that city and have received public western support from the 1980’s. Researchers have studied them as early adopters of the principles of sustainability. What I did not know about them was the role played by a Belgian Catholic nun in the crucial early major development of their business and social development from the early 1970’s.

The short version of the story is that Sister Emmanuelle at 62 years gave up teaching in 1971 to live with the Zabbaleen and this led to her working with the community on education, health, beautification and business initiatives which have substantially improved their standard of living in a sustainable way.

She pursued an independent course in religious matters and publicly advocated contraception and married priests and was casual about homosexuality.

Given honorary Egyptian citizenship she retired from Egypt at 83, died at 99 years in 2008 in France and received a French state funeral attended by the execrable femme Mubarak. The organization she founded now operates in five or six third world countries.

For those interested in more:

An obit http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/25/world ... .html?_r=0

A magazine profile: http://ambassadors.net/archives/issue25/megastars.htm and http://www.people.com/people/archive/ar ... 35,00.html
An official but very chatty report from 1986 on the history of her projects and mentioning early difficulties: http://www.icwa.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... /DJV-6.pdf

A short video of a lecture by a Canadian academic on the Zabbaleen generally and which updates their problems to recent years including new competition from the French waste management technology favoured by the government: He has also written on Sister Emmanuelle and this is available for download as ‘Religion, Humanitarianism and Development..’ http://edinburgh.academia.edu/JamiePhilipFurniss. He teaches in Scotland.

An undated but recent A-Z of the Zabbadeen Development Program written in a very accessible style and mentioning its limitations: http://www.iwpar.org/pdf/best_practices ... baleen.pdf

The 2009 Egyptian directed documentary Garbage Dreams earned more international awards than I can count and turned the Zabaleen into international celebrities. http://www.garbagedreams.com/ Al Gore gave the film an award and A listers used the cause to attract attention to themselves. Another Egyptian documentary, Marina of the Zabbaleen was made, received international plaudits and was banned in Egypt in 2008. Another documentary, Zabaleen, was produced in 2012 produced by Justin Kramer.

Through all the subsequent change, and more recent changes have been negative, Sister Emmanuelle’s projects continue to be managed by the traditional and strengthened community bodies and these, for all their achievements, must now face up to the new government attempts to evict them for property development and relocate them far away from the suburbs which are the source of their garbage business. That’s another story for another post because after she left Egypt, but not because she left, their situation has deteriorated.

It’s a great story of heroism, determination and of partial success in an area where success is not as common as it should be. When she established the program it was a simpler time and not everyone was clamoring to fund it and get profile or use it to prove green agendas, bash multinationals, garbage contractors research another doctorate, or attack government.

Maybe nowadays, and I don’t want to romanticize Sadat nor Mubarak, she would be pushed out as a foreigner meddling in Egyptian affairs


User avatar
Who2
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7911
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: Laandaan
Has thanked: 1113 times
Been thanked: 3214 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by Who2 »

When I used to live up on the Mokattam Hills one used to drive down a very steep and winding and fast road high above the Zabbaleen town.
When the wind was in the right direction the stench was incredible.
Plus every now and then a rubbish lorry would go over the edge along with many other cars.
They built a Church into the mountain which is reputed to hold up to 20,000 people.

During the time of the revolution a tricky business man (Mubarak mafia) managed to get rid of their pigs as he was attempting to take over Cairo's garbage business.
It was chaos as the pigs ate the rubbish.

When it rained it was like raging rivers running down the mountain.. 8)
14227
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.
newcastle
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 8695
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 1548 times
Been thanked: 5127 times
Contact:
Egypt

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by newcastle »

Thank you Hafiz for an excellent post......and the links which I will enjoy reading during the day.
User avatar
Hafiz
V.I.P
V.I.P
Posts: 1284
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 614 times
Been thanked: 632 times
Gender:
Australia

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by Hafiz »

Thank you Newcastle.

Who2 I'm interested in your Cairo experience. Tell more. How did you end up in 'those hills'? Were they the gentrified gated accommodation that they now are? Abandon years of ejaculatory concision (pardon the pretensions language, although I do enjoy the 'fruitiness' of it) and give us a full story. I'm sure I am not the only one to be interested in your opinions - but fuller posts on this and others would be sure to find an interested and appreciative audience.

You are correct about their open air church but I think you might be disappointed about how these destitute people have been helped, or not, by their Coptic co-religionists. Big church small religion. Pardon the appalling sexual metaphor.

I gather that after the '92 earthquake, 'old Cairo' residents were relocated to the Moqattam (sic - there are so many different spellings) hills - it was only later that the A list arrived on this prime elevated central real estate. Its now gated, golfed and laked. Scot 'golfers' are well accommodated and lubricated. The banging of balls has always been a Caledonian need. Maybe Who2 knows more.

I am beginning to write a further, and much bigger, post on the fate of the Z in recent years. The story is not good but it is complex and unclear. We will see whether there is any interest in this first post before I go any further. There is enough tedium on this site and I have no wish to add to it but If readers are interested then they will need to show it, otherwise post writers will give up.

The cynic in me says that few are interested in the sad and complex stories of modern Egypt and maybe even fewer are interested in the positive and ambiguous stories of real heroism and resilience. Its become so fashionable, and so easy, to have horror stories about Egypt. As a result people are unable to process a story which is both positive and negative at the same time. As if our own countries are not full of the same precarious balance between good and bad.

We will see. I don't hold my breath.Most people can only deal with simple black or white.

Who2. I look forward to whatever quirky, cranky stories you can give us, and do not underestimate our fascination in you.
Last edited by Hafiz on Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Horus
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7933
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:59 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 2431 times
Been thanked: 1870 times
Gender:
Contact:
United Kingdom

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by Horus »

Hafiz, maybe that is because you have usually made such a succinct analysis of your subject that there is little left other than to agree with most of what you are saying, or to inwardly ponder on the contents, please continue to post.
Image
User avatar
Who2
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7911
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: Laandaan
Has thanked: 1113 times
Been thanked: 3214 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by Who2 »

The top of the hills is very large and has quite a few very large villages on it.
When the Mubarak mafia started to develop it they just built 6 floored 4 bedroomed huge apartments all over, every building had a poor Egyptian family living in the basement come garage area.
They looked after everything even had their own shops down there.

I had two large balconies and could see the pyramids before 10am after was just smog.
No boozers except for one weird huge place the coaches would come for lunch.

The pizza delivery boys had a hell of a job delivering no street names or block numbers.
Out the back of my place was a short or long wave Army depot which made for uninterrupted views.

One could walk along the cliff edge and see where all the WW2 emplacements were, full of rusted sardine cans.
They were in dug outs that used to be houses half built into the ground going back to the Roman times.

Even when Mubarak came for freebie food during Ramadan, you knew because everything got painted up, and they always planted loads of Palm trees that died soon after he had left.... 8)
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.
User avatar
Hafiz
V.I.P
V.I.P
Posts: 1284
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 614 times
Been thanked: 632 times
Gender:
Australia

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by Hafiz »

Horus thank you. We all need to be on our best behavior following the Scottish Wars. Me more than most.

Who2. Thank you, and thank you for the detail.

Its my guess that, were you to return to 'them' hills, you would find that the subsequent 'development' defied description.

I've become interested in a radical Egyptian poet who may have been your neighbor if you were living in the area of the 'hills' built for the '92 evacuees during the 90's and thousands

His name was Ahmed Fouad Negm, he died in 2013, and he was a peasant who spent 18 years in prison under Nasser, Sadat but strangely not Mubarak, (whom he loathed) for his political poems. He lived long enough to hear his verses chanted in Tahir in 2011 and to see his child as a champion of that revolution.

A flavor of his poetry is:

They are the princes and the Sultans
They are the mansions and the cars
And the selected women
Consumerist animals
Their job is only to stuff their guts
Use your mind, guess…
Guess who is eating whom?

His On Your Seventy Something Birthday is even more savage, bitter and funny. All are freely available online

Maybe you know of him through his prolific collaboration with the blind (also imprisoned) oud player and singer Sheik Imam Issa. They were very popular as an outlet for anger and protest.

He was a poor peasant who taught himself to read and write whilst in jail, from which he won the literary prize that launched him, and became an internationally famous poet and a voice for change in Egypt.

He died in a one room flat in the hills. I think he was a drinker in a suburb where that was not common. He was an assertive secularist, anti-Islamist, socialist and democrat and popular to boot. He hated the consumerist, corrupt and parasitic middle and upper middle classes.

I'm too lazy to post the links on him but they are in all the prestige international press. Even slime ball al Ahram had no option but to write an obit for him.

Not unexpectedly he thought, around the time of his death 2013, that generals should stay in the barracks and not govern.

I think that the area you lived in had at least one other person for whom you would have had simpatico. You may have had a drink with him without knowing or heard his satirical songs. Had you met him I'm sure you would have had a ball.

My other interest in those Moqattam hills, where I think you lived, is that they are currently prime real estate overlooking garbage city and the developers are now weeping in frustration at not being able to 'improve' the view and the smell. Removing a couple of hundred thousand informal settlers, who have no legal title, will improve that view as well as liberate some choice sub-divisional inner urban opportunities on the downlands for the Gulf developers who are dominant in this market. Its classic David and Goliath, except one of those was Jewish, as well as similar to so many of the property developments in and around Cairo in the last 30 years. Their achievements have been to make money for the few, build environmentally unsustainable suburbs, dislocate the poor, spread infrastructure thinly on the ground, create socially isolated gated communities etc. But they are big and spectacular and convince the locals, or at least the middle classes, that something real is happening. The reality is like everything else. Big promise, small performance and so many unfortunate consequences - but that is another story.
User avatar
Who2
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7911
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: Laandaan
Has thanked: 1113 times
Been thanked: 3214 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by Who2 »

I do remember when I was leaving discussions were afoot about a large International hotel being built halfway up, no idea what happened though.
The government sold plots off to developers who if didn't develop within 3 years they snatched them back.
Basically it was just like Hurgharda thousands of empty apartments in all directions, even some pretty impressive villas.
I'll bet they are all still empty to this day.... 8)
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.
User avatar
carrie
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 4910
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:46 am
Location: luxor
Has thanked: 1860 times
Been thanked: 2885 times
Contact:
United Kingdom

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by carrie »

I remember going up there with my son, hundreds of small factories that cut stone, the dust was incredible. No face masks no safety equipment at all. Absolutely terrible working conditions. Another area that was completely devoted to car repairs. Strange place.
It was during Ramadan a few years ago when part of the hills came down crushing and killing many people. After that there was an inquiry apparently some official had been given money to build new homes for the people there but it had somehow gone missing.
LovelyLadyLux
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3253
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:27 am
Has thanked: 559 times
Been thanked: 1591 times
Canada

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I'm definitely interesting Hafiz! PLEASE continue on - fascinating stuff!! :up :up :up :up
User avatar
Horus
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7933
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:59 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 2431 times
Been thanked: 1870 times
Gender:
Contact:
United Kingdom

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by Horus »

Horus thank you. We all need to be on our best behaviour following the Scottish Wars. Me more than most.
Hafiz, I doubt very much if you have ever come on the radar as causing trouble, your posts are usually very informative and well written, as to your general behaviour on here you have nothing to be concerned about.
Image
LovelyLadyLux
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3253
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:27 am
Has thanked: 559 times
Been thanked: 1591 times
Canada

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Given the Zabbaleen are poor and given they're involved with garbage and given what Carrie said - how is their general health? I would think that they'd be subject to all sorts of ills i.e. hepatitis. How about birth defects?
User avatar
HEPZIBAH
Luxor4u God
Luxor4u God
Posts: 12116
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 1600 times
Been thanked: 2601 times
Gender:
Contact:
United Kingdom

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by HEPZIBAH »

Saving all this thread so that I can read it properly later.
Image Experience is not what happens to you;
it is what you do with what happens to you.
-Aldous Huxley
LovelyLadyLux
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3253
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:27 am
Has thanked: 559 times
Been thanked: 1591 times
Canada

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Ditto - I've hit the highlights but have to open all the links and read thoroughly.
User avatar
Who2
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7911
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: Laandaan
Has thanked: 1113 times
Been thanked: 3214 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by Who2 »

I never actually walked around their streets, the smell deters one but you could see houses with rubbish bags poking out of
every window, and every roof every street seems to be piled high.
I don't think they are as poor as people think, there's 'money in muck.

One of the trendiest restaurants in Cairo is Charwoods,
run by a Vietnamese lady who used to serve the best Pork and Steaks in Cairo,
I don't know if they still do.

A magnificent mosque was built near me, but there were some interesting old ones.
14228

One fascinating thing was parts would flood as there were springs up there.....8)
Ps: There are more radio, TV, phone & communication ariels up there than trees.
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.
User avatar
Hafiz
V.I.P
V.I.P
Posts: 1284
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 614 times
Been thanked: 632 times
Gender:
Australia

Re: Heroric and Enterprising Cairo Garbage Collectors and Fr

Post by Hafiz »

LovelyLadyLux I will post further (although there is little interest) on what has happened to them - including health services.

Who2 - Charwoods used to be owned by Omar Sharif's son - before he fled the country because of 'personal circumstances'. Because you had mentioned it I looked it up. The recent reviews are horrible. Your standards and advice are usually better. Not everyone has been there recently - and returned unimprisoned - so maybe your old information is all that is reliable. There is money in muck - think Steptoe and Sons - and there is another story about what has happened following the killing of their pigs and the 'keen' interest in their central real estate. Another post when I can get to it.
Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post