When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

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jewel
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by jewel »

Carrie don't misunderstand I looooove pomegranates :P and many other things in my life, but I realise that all the pleasures in life do not outweigh the ultimate suffering and pain experienced by every living thing, which has to go through the ( often) painful and protracted reality of death. :mrgreen:

“Fulfilled desires, like pleasures (even of the intrinsic kind), are states of achievement rather than default states. For instance, one has to work at satiating oneself, while hunger comes naturally. After one has eaten or taken liquid, bowel and bladder discomfort ensues quite naturally and we have to seek relief. One has to seek out pleasurable sensations, in the absence of which blandness comes naturally. The upshot of this is that we must continually work at keeping suffering (including tedium) at bay, and we can do so only imperfectly. Dissatisfaction does and must pervade life. There are moments, perhaps even periods, of satisfaction, but they occur against a background of dissatisfied striving. Pollyannaism may cause most people to blur out this background, but it remains there.”

― David Benatar, Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming Into Existence

Oh yes and talking of pomegranates.....

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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by newcastle »

Intriguing though Benatar's philosophical arguments are, he's arguing against the deeply embedded genetic programming we all have to survive & procreate....and won't succeed in defeating nature.

His writings usually engender, in most people who bother to read more than a few paragraphs, a mixture of disbelief, contempt.....or pity :cg
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by Dusak »

Well, whatever the end outcome of us all will be, I'm just happy to be here, here knowing that not all are happy that I'm here, but happy they are. We all all have different end games in progress.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I'm happy when I'm wrestling on the living room floor with the grandkids making them scream with glee. I'm happy when I'm watching the hummingbirds buzzing the feeders in the garden. Happiness is reading the last page of a good book.

Happiness to me is being in a state of mental contentment and I'd hazard each and every one of us reaches a state of mental contentment, a time free of work or mental angst when we engage in an activity that allows us to reach this state.

If Jewel's state of mental contentment is to hold the beliefs she does and has articulated here re: life/pain/angst/death then isn't that her own state of mental contentment meaning she actually IS happy? To each their own.
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by jewel »

LLL...you miss the point! :roll: what you describe are transient States and not our existence as a whole.
Time to call on my super hero...


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"Although the good things in one's life make one's life go better than it otherwise would have gone, one could not have been deprived by their absence if one had not existed. Those who never exist cannot be deprived. However, by coming into existence one does suffer quite serious harms that could not have befallen one had one not come into existence. "
David Benatar

Yeah Newcastle...the one true God ...DNA! Welcome to Gladiator wars :lol:
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by newcastle »

Antinatalism?......pah! :x Solely for losers :P

DNA will always win :ks
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Yes but if you're content with your beliefs does not this contentment = happiness? ;) ;)

I'm not talking your physical body being here or not I'm talking the cerebral calm that comes with knowing yourself, knowing your philosophies, knowing who you are and what you stand for. Once you know this and no longer have to grapple with it all your being loses angst therefore you are in a more contented state which equals happiness! :D :up :D
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by jewel »

You are so right N! The meat puppets are always the losers to DNA in Gladiator wars. :lol:


"We are born to exist, not to know; to be, not to assert ourselves. Knowledge, having irritated and stimulated our appetite for power, will lead us inexorably to our ruin."
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LLL that's the Pollyanna take on it all :mrgreen:
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by jewel »

I don't have a plan......so nothing can go wrong!

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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by Dusak »

LovelyLadyLux wrote:I'm happy when I'm wrestling on the living room floor with the grandkids making them scream with glee. I'm happy when I'm watching the hummingbirds buzzing the feeders in the garden. Happiness is reading the last page of a good book.

Happiness to me is being in a state of mental contentment and I'd hazard each and every one of us reaches a state of mental contentment, a time free of work or mental angst when we engage in an activity that allows us to reach this state.

If Jewel's state of mental contentment is to hold the beliefs she does and has articulated here re: life/pain/angst/death then isn't that her own state of mental contentment meaning she actually IS happy? To each their own.
As I used to do with my kids, but its all based on the other persons level of tolerance. As is well know, the Egyptian parent is quite happy to let their children make as much noise as they wish to, whether in or out of doors.

Last week my friend was telling me that the youngest of her two nieces that live with her family as apparently the education standards on this side are better than those on the West for girls their age, twelve and fourteen, suffered a traumatic event. The girl, the twelve years old one, has very long black hair with natural curls. She asked if she could go to the lady across the street to have her long locks trimmed. This woman has been doing the hair of the local ladies and girls for years. When she got home my friend asked her to take of her head scarf to view the finished product. She smelt the burn aroma straight away. The woman had used red hot curling tongues on her hair, destroying it. They had no option but to completely shave her head.

The child was distraught, refusing to eat, go to school and cried constantly. I suggested that she bring the two girls and her brother down to spend the day in the pool before I emptied it for winter as it was still warm enough to use but she would have to watch them as I was going to be busy working. This she did. I made a fuss of the girl when she arrived saying that she was now in the fashion as all the Hollywood actors had their head shaved for the latest fashions. She cheered up a little and when they got into the pool they where all soon shouting and screaming in glee.

That was until my grouchy old English neighbour from across the road phoned me up, effing and blinding for me to tell them to keep the noise down. She didn't give me chance to explain why they were so excited, just cut me off when I said that is what children do, make noise. It wouldn't have been so bad if we lived in a total noiseless vacuum here, but noise has a continual presence here. She cares not when her music or TV is blasting out, a noise that I put up with as I presume that she is going deaf due to here age, but has selective deafness by the looks of things.

The girl is now much better in herself, she consumed food as fast as I could make it, she's returned to school and my friend says that she wares her new hairstyle with pride. All children should be allowed to laugh and scream with delight, not be harnessed in what is a most natural occurrence at that age.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by carrie »

And what Dusak, could be more delightful then seeing them laugh and scream with pleasure. Lifts your heart.
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by Dusak »

carrie wrote:And what Dusak, could be more delightful then seeing them laugh and scream with pleasure. Lifts your heart.
When she rings up later once back at home and attempts to say thank you for a nice day in her broken English. Not often that I get a lump in my throat.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by jewel »

My question is...why bring more of them here?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/Mickey-go ... mg00000063
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

On the subject of hair and red hot curling & flat irons I have been in the hairdressers when they have been working on African American womens' hair and they really DO use super hot irons to get the hair straight however if memory serves I do believe the hairdresser adds some sort of oil/lotion/concoction to the hair prior to applying the iron.

Given the age of your friends niece it must have been pretty devastating to have your hair ruined to the extent you need your head shaved. That would have killed me. I had waist length hair and it was my pride and joy at that age.
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by jewel »

"If children were brought into the world by an act of pure reason alone, would the human race continue to exist? Would a man rather have so much sympathy with the coming generation, as to spare it the burden of existence? Or at any rate not take it upon himself to impose that burden upon it in cold blood."
~Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Sufferings of the World 1851


The table of reasons not to replicate is excellent.

http://vhemt.org/biobreed.htm#instinct


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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by newcastle »

jewel wrote:My question is...why bring more of them here?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/Mickey-go ... mg00000063
It may have escaped your notice but nobody is much interested in your "question" :lol:
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by jewel »

That figures N. A common reaction especially among politicians. :mrgreen:
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by jewel »

Another sad chapter in the book of life.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/body-found-se ... .html?vp=1

I see they add the compulsory "contact the Samaritans" at the end.
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

@ Jewel - where do you get all your photos from? Head in the sand is a good one!
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Re: When are we going to stop ignoring the proof?

Post by jewel »

That was a recent event in Australia I believe in reaction to their politicians not listening to them. Pretty effective eh LLL? :D
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