What do they teach them in Egyptian schools.

[DJKeefy]

It's rare that I have come across a shop in Luxor that seems to be able to add the price of a few items up in their head quickly, most times they have to use a calculator, sometimes they have to input the prices a few times to make sure.

One example happened yesterday, I went to the local shop, I got 2 packets of Marlboro red cigarettes (16LE each) 1 litre of pepsi (5LE) and a big bag of crisps (3LE), The total price 40LE, I give the young woman 50LE, she tried adding the items up in her head and failed I told her in Arabic it's 40LE, she went through the 4 items again, 16LE, 16LE, 5LE, 3LE and still failed to give the total price, she ended up going to the calculator and adding it up on there, she then come back with 20LE change for me, I gave her 10LE back and said you have give me too much change, she past it back to me, after a few passes back and forth she accepted I was right.

[Dusak]

When more than one price is needed to be added up its always on a calculator or it is since I came here in regards to myself. At least its easy to question a price if you think/know its incorrect. But we are all fallible at times, its very easy to make a mistake in adding up, just depends if your still under the influence from the night before or suffering from heatstroke, sometimes the grey matter just will not work.

[Who2]

I alway's looked vexed and shout "f***** 'la whaala then, see what's next whatever the price I never understand them...it's only money..and it's fun...

[Remus]

But isn't this exactly what they do on electronic tills in nearly all British shops?

[Zooropa]

Yes it is, but the primary function of a till in the UK is to account for revenue and tax purposes.

I rather think, by the sounds of it its used as a counting device in Egypt first and fore mostly.

[Remus]

You miss my point.
Do you think that most shop assistants in UK can do mental arithmetic?

[LovelyLadyLux]

I'd be comfortable making the assumption that most of the clerks in stores here couldn't do the math in their heads either. They're totally reliant on the cash registers to add it all up and then also tell them the exact change back that the customer needs.

[Zooropa]

I didn't miss your point Remus, I would say with a degree of confidence that the sum that the boss gave would be added up correctly more times in the UK than in Egypt.

I say this because educational standards in Egypt are lower than the UK.

Everyone is different, my daughter works in a supermarket part time and her arithmetic is excellent.

[Brian Yare]

When I worked at the Government Actuary's Office (Summer 1967 IIRC) I regularly had to add up long lists of numbers. Of course I would do this in my head, and write the answer in the appropriate place on the form.

Of course this was not sufficient for the 'system', so I would then input all the numbers into an old fashioned electro-mechanical calculating machine and produce a 'till-roll' that was added to the appropriate form. Of course they expected me to do this twice for each set of figures, as a cross-check.

Of course there was very rarely a discrepancy, which miffed my bosses something rotten!

[carrie]

When I went to school we had to learn our tables off by heart no such thing as calculators then. Mental arithmetic was taught, but looking at the work that kids are doing in the schools now and the efficiency of the shop workers I can honestly say that standards have deteriorated. In the shops everything is scanned the total price comes up and the change to be given is shown. I admit Luxor shop keepers are not very good at adding up but they almost always make a mistake on their side. I have never known one who gave me too much change always the other way round and when it pointed out it's OH sorry Madam.

[Zooropa]

My mother was born in 31 which means she was 8 when war broke out and 14 when it ended, she left school that year.

Schools suffered greatly during the war, buildings being bombed out, no money for equipment, teacher shortage 50 to a class.

So she left at 14 which is at least two years less than kids leave now, got a job as an accounts clerk, is well read and intelligent.

Now kids leave at 16, there is almost one computer per child, new building, around 25 max to a class and the teacher has at least one assistant to help, an unpresidented amount of funding poured into education and as Carrie says, are they better educated now?

Are they heck!

And don't get me started on teachers moaning about performance related pay, higher wages, wanting more assistants and yes, more holiday, as if they are short on them now!


Grrrrrrrr

[LovelyLadyLux]

Way back when many of us had to learn tables by heart and many things by rote. I know kids these days don't have to do this to the depth we had to.

I wonder if the ability to memorize is the same as the ability to understand and I wonder if kids nowadays are actually learning more than was ever required of me? Seems there is much more out there to learn these days.

[Zooropa]

I think the best barometer is how well prepared people who leave school are now compared to the past?

Because exams were dumbed down under the last labour government many, many children left school thinking they were well equipped.

Sadly this was not the case and this was done so that politically the argument could be made that the then government had improved education standards because of improved exam results.

I just don't understand why when something as disgusting and as socially immobilising like this is done by a socialist government its ignored or quickly forgotten.

Had it been the nasty tories it would have been yet another example of them dumping on the working classes.

Just because you say you are a party for the people, don't make it so.

People should look at what is actually being done.

The tories are now making the richest pay more in tax than they did under labour yet this also will be forgotten an no matter what they do they will always be thought of by many as just for the rich.

The opposite is also true, no matter how much the last labour government sucked up to the rich this wont be recognised, they will continue to be the party of the poor.

Mark twain summed this up very well:


"Give a man the reputation of being an early riser and he will be able to sleep in until midday"

[biosceptic]

And don't get me started on teachers moaning about performance related pay, higher wages, wanting more assistants and yes, more holiday, as if they are short on them now!


Grrrrrrrr

And don't get me started on parents who don't parent but want to be their children's best friend. My worst days in the current world of education involve the phone call from the irate parent telling me about how a teacher is picking on their child even before the student or teacher has made it down the corridor to my office to discuss the incident.
It is very hard to help students develop resilience and strategies for dealing with failure or mistakes if they are being still being rescued by parents in the last year of high school.

[Zooropa]

I quite agree, but the facts remain.

Education is far more funded in every aspect and yet standards have not improved and in my view have dropped.

That's the real scandal.

[Hafiz]

Agree with Remus but take it a stage further. It seems to me that you know you are old when you complain about the maths and spelling of the 'younger generation'. There are similar complaints (about English or Egyptians youth) of drinking, drugs, dress or manners which seem to be part of the same winge. It seems to me that for hundreds of years those over 50 think that those under 18 are not as 'good' as they were and in each case they were wrong.

As regards maths anyone under 50 or with kids knows that in the west there is no rote learning or mental arithmetic. Why waste your time when a machine will do it. We gave up on Dos because we got something better which was 'automatic.

You know that you are headed for the knackery when you start to winge about 'the younger generation' and glorify the brutal, mind numbing and primitive rote learning of the past. New methods in England or Egypt may not be perfect (but I suspect that the old rote learning still survives in Egypt and is still doing its damage) but it has got to be better than cramming the mind with 'facts'.

In any event, literacy and numeracy in the west may be worse than you think: which is a further reason for caution in complaining about undereducated Egyptians. Recent research has identified large numbers of Australian adults who have managed to hide this. I suspect that this is also true in other western countries.

[Dusak]

My sister was/is a maths genius, whereas I was the proverbial underachiever with the numbers, a thicko. She still works at 67 to make ends meet, I retired at 50 and used any form of electronic devise relating to numbers and calculations in my work, she used her head. Who needs to be given spoken lessons today in regards to maths, its all there at a push of a button, thus releasing the tiered mind to ponder more important facts. All you have to do is to show them how to turn the gadget on/off and how to change the battery. Now that point could confuse some.