Too late to save Egypt now?

Advice, information and discussion about Egypt in general.

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Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by jewel »

Another sad consequence of the Burka spring. The consequences for Egypt will be catastrophic

The new government of President Mohamed Morsi has continued financing for family planning programs. But health officials have taken a starkly different view of climbing birthrates, presenting the problem as one of economic management — not the size of the population. Population experts are increasingly alarmed by the government’s silence and its lack of focus on the issue.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/03/world ... .html?_r=2&

Long term turmoil will be the inevitable consequence of this, any international aid should ve in the form of (enforced) birth control? :sd


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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by Zooropa »

I fear for the well being of any peoples whos government is of the opinion that

"god will provide"

Scary, very scary.

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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by jewel »

It is scary Zooropa, and sadly being overlooked by other situations such as Syria, in fact it may have tipped over too far already, food and water crises seem inevitable in the not so distant future, some of the statistics are indeed quite shocking.
And with peak oil countries such as Saudi Arabia will soon be net importers of oil so there won't be much assistance there. This is an informative piece.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-wa ... 78979.html


Egypt, as one commentator recently put it, may be "too big to save."
I don't have a plan......so nothing can go wrong!

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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I think now that we've moved into the time of global economy 'we' are all going to have to come to grips with new ways of thinking, relating, supporting etc. We've become extremely interconnected due to technology and cyberworld so the falling down of any one country will be felt by most all other countries.

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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by Chocolate Eclair »

You may well be right, law and order has broken down, there is no protection for the people, no jobs, and people now selling using US Dollars because of the state the Egyptian Pound is in. You could see this happening a long time ago. There is supposed to be an Election in June, but you would not think so, it is not broadly advertised, the candidates posters have not reached the streets so the chance is it will be delayed, this may go on for another 3 years yet. All this coming and going is really starting to damage the Country and make it look small in the eyes of other nations. It just seems as though there is no interest in doing anything. And I hate to say it but Zooropa's quote is very scary indeed. If thats the feeling there is only one way forward and that is down. What suprises me is the fact the Military has gone very quiet, or are they planning the future of the country?

Whatever, it is scary at the moment, different Cities having different rules, shows the Country is in a state of fragmentation, and that is a big worry, the people just cannot see this.

Its all a case of wait and see, but at this moment of time I really fear for Egypt and its people.

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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by Hafiz »

If a country wants to reduce its birth rate the best single way of doing this is to educate girls. This has been proven in all third world countries. Educated girls have better work opportunities, are seen as a source of income not only of children, gives them more independence, delays their first child, gives the husband a financial incentive to return the wife to work etc. Never underestimate the effect on traditional attitudes of new breadwinners in the family.

Tax benefits directed to those with small families might also work.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2011/pop994.doc.htm

This is why so much western aid has been directed for decades to girls and young women in Egypt - although these programs will take a long time to have effect and there will need to be jobs for the educated girls and young women.

The argument about forced contraception is absurd. It would never work in an Islamic country and, in any case, would be a gross violation of human rights. Mrs Gandhi tried it but needed a state of emergency to enforce it (mainly male sterilization). Don't think that male contraception would work in Egypt.

Zachy, the demographer quoted, is either very bad at his job or has an agenda. He quotes China as a success (another forced system) yet doesn't mention that the effects of this program are now leading to major labor shortages in the Chinese economy and this in turn is leading to the lifting of the one child policy.

http://www.pop.org/content/china-end-on ... not-really

Shame on the NYT for publishing such a shoddy article relying on poor sources.

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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by Dusak »

To successfully educate the girls and young women of this country is that first you have to educate the boys and young men to ditch their fathers teachings as they grow up watching brutish examples that all females are chattels and its OK to beat, enslave and persecute them because they are females. If Egypt was to adopt anything like the restrictions that China forces upon the population, the Nile would be awash with the floating corpses of unwanted baby girls as is happening in China.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by Hafiz »

Dusak - Yes but.

Forced plans won't work or may have unintended consequences and victimise women but they do have the advantages of cheap and quick if not cheerful.

Educating women is expensive and slow but offers much better outcomes for women than the forced programs. They not only get to have fewer babies but they also get an education and a job. The country ends up with skills rather than just an expensive ($3 billion over a few years quoted in the article) to get women to take the pill. Saying no and condoms wouldn't have much success although they might be cheaper and less harming to health.

Agree with you that it will be slow but its worked elsewhere and quicker than you might think.

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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by Zooropa »

I think the whole situation is enough to make you weep.

Since democracy came and the people were "liberated" they have never been more imprisoned.

Real freedom is having the money and the education to run your own life in pursuit of what you want to do.

What is happening at the moment is dictatorship wearing a democratic cloak.

I would think that an awful lot of Egyptians consider life now to be much worse than pre revolution.

If they think this is what real democracy is like then I fear for democracy's future in Egypt.

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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by Dusak »

There is a family close to me that has seven girls. They finally got a boy on the eighth go. But will they stop there, or try for a second boy? Who knows, as its in the hands of Allah, not a shrink wrap strip of little pills. According to my friend, in upper Egypt the use of contraception is frowned upon by husbands as it is seen as a bad omen for the future and if done covertly by the wife, if found out can result in a severe beating.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by Billy_whiz »

I think they will definitely try for another boy Dusak, as the boy will have full responsibility for all the family later on and he will need some help from his brother(s)

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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by Dusak »

I hope they will as they are still two players short of a full team for football. I don't think that they could make much more racket than they do now with the extra two. :x
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Each of my grandparents (father's side) had 13 brothers and sisters = 26 direct relatives + marriage = 52 aunts and uncles. I never had friends I HAD family.

Each of these couples had mega kids. More cousins than I could ever count or know. My father was the youngest of 8 siblings.

Enter the birth control pill and access to it coupled with knowledge AND - NONE of my father's siblings had no more than 2 kids. When you look at the family tree it was a very sudden and dramatic stop to the large family. Family poverty vanished and almost all the cousins are university educated or tradesmen.

Just saying........

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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by jewel »

That's the way to go LLL quality not quantity is the way forward surely, and as you mentioned the global economy en passant, well the world economic crisis was created by the Largest financiers such as the Rothschilds handed to them on a plate through using Debt instead of Gold. Hence the largest ever amount of wealth was transferred from the poor to the Uba rich elite to elicit fear on the masses thus effecting control. And this is just the beginning.......
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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I think knowledge related to birth control has to given to both men and women and, if possible, even the grannies and grandpas. never too late to start spreading factual knowledge. I'd hate to see Egypt or any country go to the extreme of China.

I'd really hope that with knowledge couples would make their own choices re: family size based on such factors as their ability to feed, eduation, nurture the child and that these choices are informed and driven by husband and wife choice.

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Re: Too late to save Egypt now?

Post by Dusak »

I found out yesterday why the old building next but one to me has been repainted a garish purple and pink and is covered in Arabic script. The owner has decided to open a Kindergarten. According to my friend they already have twelve inmates. Knowing the Egyptian business planing, it will, no doubt, soon be housing a hundred of the noisy little buggers. Peace, tranquility as well as Elvis have now permanently left my building.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

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