Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost town

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carrie
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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by carrie »

If my elderly relative had her bag snatched in the street and it resulted in her falling or being punched in the face then I would have no reservations in describing it as an attack on her.



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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Zooropa »

For example, consider a situation where all muggings, thefts with violence and violence leading to theft, whether involving tourists or locals, in London and NY were listed in newspapers and forums as attacks. It would not only be untrue, it would also have negative effects on tourism.


I find it very easy to consider all muggings, thefts with violence leading to theft as "attacks".

Because that's exactly what they are.

Hafiz, how else would you refer to them?

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I'd call it arguing over semantics.

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Chocolate Eclair »

I would have thought the lack of food mentioned earlier would effect the tourists, I for one would feel as guilty as hell if the hotel or tourist outlet took food from the locals to feed me. Sorry but whats good for one is good for the other

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Dusak »

Dictionary definitions:- ATTACK-To set upon with violent force. VIOLENCE- The use of physical force, especially physical force utilized with malice and/or the attempt to harm a person. MALICE- The state of mind of one intentionally preforming a wrongful act. Attempting to put light on a subject by stating these people were not attacked, but only slightly put out by a small intrusion into their private space while receiving a punch to the face that required hospital treatment, is a direct insult to the victim. And given the example, what word would you use to describe this 'incident' Hafiz?
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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Chocolate Eclair »

Unfortunately "Z" Luxor is not even a quarter the size of New York and London, so its difficult to compare, but I understand what you are saying, Dont forget there is one main local paper and maybe a couple of other news outlets in Luxor all looking for a bit of sensationalism so they will report as much as they can.

News about things that happen in Luxor though is certainly getting out, my wife's friend was sent a couple of clippings from a European Newspaper reporting the murders of the two ladies in the "Pink House" opposite the ferry, and about a man being killed at a Luxor Bus Station. It makes you wonder why European Press should want to publish this, my wife was told its because the Embassy's etc are still warning people about the insecurities of Luxor and the fact there is no effective security as such. It makes me wonder just what other countries are reporting what happens in Luxor but most of all why they are reporting it, because there are no tourists here, it does make you start understanding why there are no tourists here.

I never read English Newspapers because I am not interested in what happens in the UK, I sometimes read the Huffington Post if its showing something up that sounds good, but I can read this forum and others to know what is happening in the UK.
Last edited by Chocolate Eclair on Fri May 17, 2013 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Zooropa »

Chocalate, whether its New York, Luxor or the head of a pin an attack is an attack.

Most of the reports on attacks i have heard about come from testimonies of the actual people or people close to them that have been attacked.

Crime is on the increase in Luxor.

Tinted specs or not.

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Chocolate Eclair »

Yes! I agree totally with you "Z" crime is on the increase and its more noticeable in a small place like Luxor. I never look at things with RT Glasses anymore, its wasting your time to do so. But how would you bring the crime figures down? You need people that are interested in doing it first....

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by dsaxelby »

I live in a small town, odd murder, rape, burglary etc.....

But not read anything about lynching's or body dismemberment, had a guy jump out of window as his fellow Nationals wanted to murder him in a bath but this was Hastings! Suspect it is all relative to your community.
It is what it is.

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I think bad things happen to good people.

I also think poverty, drugs, political unrest, lack of police presence, opportunity etc etc etc all lead to assaults and attacks or personally invasive and damaging incidents involving good aka innocent people.

Most public entities, government included try and resolve things at the lowest common denominator hence I think what the public typically becomes aware of has already had the goriest most disturbingly awful elements removed.

There are also all the unreported crimes and we often do not hear from the victim re: the impact the attack/assault/incident had on them.

When I hear of an incident however benign it might sound I can't help but think there is MORE. Statistically a criminal commits many more crimes that he is charged with and some victims are not in a position to report fully for a whole range of reasons i.e. fear of reprisal, extensive injury making them unable, language barriers....

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Zooropa »

I think a good place to start Chocolate is with an interested police force.

Im interested to know from the expats, surly this has been raised with the local powers?

What is their explanation?

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Chocolate Eclair »

"Z" Agree entirely with your last comment, but no one knows why this has happened and the Police never want to get involved with this debate.

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Zooropa »

Has there been any official comment from the authorities?

Surly they have been asked by the towns people as to what is going on?

This is what I do not understand, the authorities must know that the perception of zero policing is probably the most toxic to tourism of all the current issues?

My perception of the police in Luxor has never been one of them being overly busy. It mainly consisted of them sitting about in doorways or by the riverside.

But the point was they were there!

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Dusak »

The only thing that the police seem interested in is creating the odd road block to check the paperwork of the car/bike owners. They will investigate high profile murders or crime in relation to people in a position of authority. The common plebs on the street, and I place us in that reference, get what we are lucky to get, mainly nothing. May be an investigation with loads of saying this that and the other, but at the end of the day, bugger all. We stand alone and fall alone. The police are lazy and indifferent towards the remit of their employment. They now stand in the shadow's unwilling to take action as they are no longer the only ones with the guns. They are afraid of getting involved or intervening in disputes, their strength and power has diminished to a zero level. It may be of an interest to the few tourists that come to paint them all grey to imitate statues that only produce movement when a tourist passes, a living statue as can bee seen in European cities to entertain the passers by. But I think even this easily produced, small amount of movement would be beyond most as you would still have to hope that they could stay awake.
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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Scottishtourist »

I get a bit confused as to the different types of Police in Luxor.
Are there two forces?Regular Police (blue vans and saw a number of grey armoured like vehicles ) and tourist Police?
What exactly are the remits of each?
I know I often get slated on forum...but I still find there is a vast difference between security in Luxor and in my home country.
I also find that Luxor airport is somewhat lax on security compared to other places.
e.g Gatwick Airport 22April.Standing in Easyjet queue to check in luggage.Was welcomed by smashing looking Springer Spaniel going around the whole queue and two armed Policemen.Had nothing of any interest to it in case...so it quickly moved on!
Fast forward to Glasgow airport 9th May.It may be alarming to some...but I found it very reassuring to see smart,alert,armed Scottish police on the premises!
Who trains the Luxor force?
Who trains the Tourist Police?
Yes,they may look very "dashing" in their white "Officer and Gentleman"get-ups...but what exactly is their role?

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Dusak »

You used to have the locals local police, the tourist police, the traffic police and the secret police that wasn't a secret. I really don't know how they operate now as it seems a bit of a mish mash collective. But they all get there training from the same department, Legoland.
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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Azurite »

Just wondering here ... but over a couple of topics I'm seeing references to burglaries & attacks, the type of burglaries must be different to the norm as I don't recall seeing such methods being commented on before.
Then another post reports an influx of Syrians. So I'm kinda wondering if there is a connection here. :tk
Are Egyptians being given the blame for others in there midst, I know we all moan about caleche drivers and being nagged to go into shops, but these are not criminal things, just annoying !!! :lol:
If it is the fault of these immigrants then I am as sorry for Luxor as I am for the people of Italy, Spain, England etc. What's happening in Spain and Italy is definately not down to Spaniards or the Italians.
Please don't start the racist thing here ... because I am not, but sometimes logic points to a certain type of people who "flee" their own country and then cause havoc where they land. To the detriment of that country.
I am indeed shocked to find out that our Luxor is now suffering this. :(

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Chocolate Eclair »

You are right A you did not hear of attacks and burglaries previous, this was because they just did not happen as frequently as they do now. Luxor had an effective Police force, and the people were frightened to do anything. Now its the people that own the streets!!

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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by Dusak »

Its difficult to lay blame on any particular person or pacific group of people as its very unusual for the boys in blue here to catch any of them. You may get the odd incident involving a Syrian as you can't alter the law of averages, but I think it unlikely to the greater extent as they would have so much to loose if caught committing a crime in Egypt as they would be sent back to the country and dangerous life they had only just successfully escaped from.
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Re: Once a world class destination, Luxor is now a ghost tow

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

You may get the odd incident involving a Syrian as you can't alter the law of averages, but I think it unlikely to the greater extent as they would have so much to loose if caught committing a crime in Egypt as they would be sent back to the country and dangerous life they had only just successfully escaped from.
There are many multi reasons for why crime is committed. Everything from the persons own psychological makeup and predisposition to criminal activity to poverty, opportunity, social strife etc. Entire textbooks are written on the topic ...

I do think however, and I'm referencing Syrians but this could equally apply to any group of displaced persons, that they have experienced extreme political unrest, have probably/possibly lost everything from family to possessions to ancestral home(s) and have had to relocate (willingly or not) to another country. They're hurting big time and community ties and connections are gone. The knowing the neighbour and the connections that regular residents have internalized and normalized are not there hence it is my opinion that this disruptions allows people to steal, rob, burgalarize much more readily and easily than they would have if they were still living in their own country, own home and living a regular routine noramlized lifestyle.

Specifically @ Dusak - I'm not too sure after all the Syrians or any groups of newly displaced person have gone through - regardless of the reason - that they're too worried about being caught and sent back from whence they've come. I think they are much more into reaction mode and trying to asuage any need they might, of the moment, feel. They have few to none interpersonal relationships or community ties in place that might cause them pause to stop and think prior to committing a criminal activity. IMO ;)

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