“Because I’m A Man’

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“Because I’m A Man’

Post by Hafiz »

Sometimes a marketing phrase doesn’t make sense – if its really bad you can’t even make a guess on what they might mean or whether the idea was produced by a monkey or a human being.

Here is a recent Cairo example of an initiative to advance women:
“The Egyptian National Council for Women announced on Sunday the official launch of a campaign titled "Because I'm a Man," which calls for equality between woman and men and is led by UN Women in Egypt.”
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... cause.aspx

This is the peak Egypt body for woman with all the female ‘Great and the Good’ on it and supported by scores of the best and brightest bureaucrats and probably a big budget.

The female head of this body said this:
“a real man is one who holds the qualities of chivalry, engagement, and responsibility." – which isn’t completely wrong but seems a silly/vague/low priority thing to say. (If she is suggesting that the only priority is a change in Egyptian male values - then we could be waiting a while.)

They commissioned a university study which ‘proved’:
“that two thirds of (Egyptian) men surveyed said that girls' education was as important as boys’ education,” - how unbelievable.

More credibly, but depressingly, the study found that:
“three quarters of women surveyed want to attain their right to work but they see that men should be given the priority in job selection if the opportunities are limited.” (does this mean that idiot men get preference to talented and able women – seems like it does – no idea of actual merit or performance).

Their Cairo University study is entirely contradicted by recent UN opinion surveys of mas Egyptian opinion which paint a darker picture – including, unexpectedly, quite extreme views by young male Egyptians. I think the university study is about as credible as The Egyptian National Council which commissioned it.

‘On a positive note’ several hundred of the female Cairo elite had a marvelous day at a 5 star Cairo hotel, hundreds of press releases got issued, the media covered it and ‘everyone’ was very happy – and well fed and watered.

I think they should just give up trying to do anything practical and stick to elegant conferences in salubrious locations and lots of press releases.

Thinking about something sensible and practical to do might be long overdue but would represent a dangerous, revolutionary change for government bodies. Sticking to just PR is a lot easier.

At the end of the day Egypt has one of the lowest female workforce participation rates in the world. That means that its national productivity is appalling because a whole lot of people don’t contribute to the economy.

Outside the middle class the education of girls is dreadful and that means that skills and potential are wasted. Egyptian inheritance laws means that girls get little but their brothers get everything. Marriage law is administered by a court system dominated by men. Women are almost entirely absent from the police force, the judiciary and upper bureaucracy and entirely absent from the Armed Forces. The property settlement laws in divorce are unfair to women, female sport is hardly funded by government, the inheritance rights of widows are weak and the elite professions like law, finance, banking and engineering are female deserts. Third world birth rates (although Egypt denies its part of the third world) mean that women are tied to the home/children.

The male police force of one million 'allows' Cairo to be a sexual harassment leader in the world.

These are all things that the Government of Egypt could change quickly – and with little financial cost and much economic benefit. A lot of men wouldn't like the changes and, given they control things, maybe it won't happen until women, unlike these peak conference women, demand change.

The problems are obvious (and I haven’t even mentioned the horror cases like FGM and violence) and this peak body ignores all of them and says the major issue is a need for individual men to be more personally chivalrous – and this is a word that only the best educated would understand, let alone agree with. The obligations of the Government of Egypt to change anything are not mentioned by her.

The world heads forward – but some places are in reverse or neutral gear. Meanwhile lots of talent and human potential gets wasted.
Last edited by Hafiz on Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by Brian Yare »

Hafiz wrote:Sometimes a marketing phrase don’t make sense – if its really bad you can’t even make a guess on what they might mean or whether the idea was produced by a monkey or a human being.

Here is a recent Cairo example of an initiative to advance women:
“The Egyptian National Council for Women announced on Sunday the official launch of a campaign titled "Because I'm a Man," which calls for equality between woman and men and is led by UN Women in Egypt.”
Who are these un-women? Men in disguise?
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by newcastle »

Brian Yare wrote:
Who are these un-women? Men in disguise?
Men who've been unmanned perhaps :tk
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by Dusak »

Ah, ladyboys post opp.
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by Hafiz »

If only it was just a joke (as you well make) - its the peak body for women in Egypt and it has no idea of what Egyptian women need/want.

They probably aren't even interested in finding out.

My first post missed the obvious. Chivalry by men is unlikely to change anything. Chivalry was part of upper class code of behavior in Western Europe from the 13th Century and a dominant part of how such men behaved, or were told to behave, towards women from the 18th Century. Until the 20th century it didn't change much - but maybe the peak advisor to the President on women doesn't know much about history or what eventually happened in the 20th Century to change things. Maybe she dosen't care.

Meanwhile other Islamic countries move in a different direction and Pakistan has had a female PM, Indonesia (the largest Islamic country in the world and which is one of six Muslim countries to have had a female head of government) moves forward on this particular matter, Turkey does OK.

I find it interesting that al Ahzar stays quiet on the matter when even quiet encouragement from them could have a big effect on changing public opinion. This is odd because (its a bit unclear) it seems that there are women lecturers (maybe even senior ones) who lecture in theology at their university.
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by Major Thom »

We will probably never know what Egyptian women want, they are maybe too frightened of standing up individually to a man in a male dominated Country. The only thing that will make them get their message across and be noticed is if they stick together in the same way the Gay Community in Australia have done over the past years to mobilise and get the right to marry among themselves law passed. The problem is the male domination will crush women's rights in Egypt if it involves giving women any rights.
All I see is women only have one right and that is baby making.
Maybe someone in power should stand up and crush the male dominated practice of corruption like the new Saudi leader. Well done to him.
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by carrie »

Difficult for men to understand the workings of a female mind I know, but as a woman I can and do speak to Egyptian women and whilst there may be demand for change in such places as Cairo here in Upper Egypt women seem to be quite happy with the status quo. IF they work and have decent jobs they are quite happy to give them up when they marry, there one true goal in life seems to be to marry and have kids.
To catch a husband.
It remains impossible for them to branch out and have a home of their own without being married nor would they wish to do so, that would bring disgrace on them and their families.
What I would find intolerable is an acceptable way of life for many women and as one said to me "you were not brought up in our country our culture so you will never be able to understand fully." Slowly, slowly, things will change and there is a saying that the "government in the home is the wife" our values are not always appreciated by others.
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by Mad Dilys »

Ever wondered why the coffee shops are full of men and men brring home the grocery shopping?

Women are proud to raise their children to the best of their ability and in my experience there is a lot of team work and support between women relatives and neighbours.

There is a saying that the woman rules behind the door.

Older women have authority in Egypt and boy do they use it.
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by newcastle »

You're right of course Carrie.....East is East and all that.

Even in the West, "feminism" is very much an issue of the last century. Go back any further and the role of women in society was not much different to that of women in Egypt.

We, in the West, may have woken up to the fact that 50% of the population are under-represented, and under-utilised, but I suspect it'll take Egypt several centuries to catch up....especially as they're held back by the tenets of Islam. Maybe they never will.

In some respects, Egypt has moved in the opposite direction in recent years. Just look at the female dress code of Cairenes and Alexandrians today compared with 50 years ago!

Hafiz mentioned chivalry...a term which doesn't readily translate into Arabic. The nearest I can get is 'magnanimity'. This was a concept understood, allegedly, by Saladin in the treatment of vanquished enemies but bears no relation to the courteous treatment of the fairer sex by medieval knights or of the modern Western man. Trooping behind their lord and master is still the norm for Egyptian woman who can expect a sound thrashing if they step out of line,

The elite women of Cairo may have discarded their hijabs, certainly their niqabs, and burnt their bras for all I know Their poorer sisters, the vast majority of Egyptian women, are tied (literally in some cases) to the home where they are expected to do as they're told, marry and produce babies.

And, by and large, this is the role they expect...... and accept. As MD says, they may be masters within their home.....but it'll be a long time before they exert much influence in society outside.
Last edited by newcastle on Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by carrie »

There you go again Newcastle " this is the role they expect...and accept" this is the role they actively seek in many instances. They want to marry they want to produce babies, son's who will be brought up to believe they are the best thing since sliced bread, who's wife's they will dominate, who will have a far greater say in the upbringing of the grandchildren than the mother. Women who work are not expected to contribute to the family finances. They spend their money as they like. The man has to provide, shop and make sure that the family is provided for.
As Mad Dylis says there is no greater power in the home than the matriarch, she is the government, she is the nag.
It says in the Quran that the first person in a man's life should be his mother and boy do they play on that.
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by Major Thom »

That would be nice Carrie if that was local wide, but many undergo batterings for refusing sex, many get raped by their husbands so on and so on. Women should not have to under go this at all, and while ever you have lawyers saying rape is ok, (A previous discussion) the majority of numb skulls will take that as the authority to do what they want with women. Its high time that men across the world realised that no mater if you are man or woman you are equal, the bad part about that is chivalry has gone out the window. But I suppose that equality works both ways. :lol: They are calling my gate now must fly!! 4.5 hours and home....
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by Dusak »

Through my friend I get to know a lot of what the females expect within the marriage. First and foremost they desire to be treated as they were when first meeting their husbands to be. Secondly they hope that one day they will be treated like human beings after the marriage and not slaves and chattels. Thirdly they would like to see the end of the unwarranted beatings towards them and their children and not have to walk around as if the floor is covered in broken glass because husband is having a hard time of it. They are quite content to work the house, seeing to all that is expected of any housewife, they even do not desire those little trappings of luxury most wives receive now and again in the Western world. But all this is now well beyond their reach. They like the husbands to stay outside for as long as they see fit, everybody receives a respite from the trauma most suffer behind closed doors, be it only verbal abuse. I find myself smiling at times thinking ''if only you knew the most likely truth is when you are not there and the door is closed,'' when foreigners here, or elsewhere for that matter, say that ''their Egyptian families are happy and content.'' I have seen the results of violence on every face of all the wives and most of the kids in my friends now extended family. It sickens me to my stomach.

As for the husband ''raping'' his wife when she does not want sex, this is not a common trait to just Egypt, many females suffer the same humiliation across the globe on a daily basis, sadly.
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by Hafiz »

Under the divorce and inheritance laws in Egypt female rights are unfair and advantage men/sons etc. I think its not unreasonable to assume that the police and courts behave not-unlike western systems 50 or 60 years ago and ignore or minimize crimes against women in the home. The big loosers are children and wives - and boys who 'learn bad habits' by modelling themselves on their fathers. The big winners are bad and violent men - rarely a group you want to give more power or sense of entitlement to.

Clearly in rural and traditional areas expectations are more limited and 'feminism' not a necessarily big/widespread issue - just as it wasn't in equivalent areas/regions in the west in the 50's and 60's.

No-one is suggesting mandated 'feminist' change for all women - but most countries realize that ambitious and talented women should be given opportunities - and only on an equal basis - whether that is as a judge or as a retailer in the Souk in Luxor. It isn't just about the individual need - it also adds to productivity and national performance which benefits all. Women are a resource that should be used to maximum potential - consistent with how they want to live their lives and that includes staying at home - indeed the greatest resource of any country is its people.

In a fairer more equal opportunity society the people who stand to loose most are third rate men in second and third rate jobs - and I think they know that. A country that allows the best, whether in a court or a souk, to come forward will win. A country that doesn't will loose. That's my point. No-one (well not me) is suggesting that change should be forced on those individuals who don't want it.
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by newcastle »

As you say Hafiz, it would be pointless to try and force emancipation on those who don't want it....and that seems to be the majority of men and maybe a preponderance of women. You can't help wondering whether a number of Egyptian women dream of a more liberal life and opportunities outside the home....and then, with a sigh, dismiss it as a passing fancy.

But encouraging and enabling those who do want to make a contribution to wider society, to achieve personal ambitions, does make sense, not only as a kindness to the individual but as a contribution to the development of the country.

Although the campaign which introduced this topic might have shortcomings, at least it's a step in the right direction and if it encourages even a few women to 'chance their arm' - and, more importantly, encourage men to allow them to do so - then it won't have been entirely pointless.

There are some signs that the government is paying more attention to women's rights, with changes to the divorce and inheritance laws, a more positive approach to harassment of women outside the home etc. And if the recent efforts at kick starting family planning bear fruit ( perhaps I'm being over-optimistic here) then there will be more women who can seriously contemplate a life outside the home.
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by Dusak »

A few words some time ago just about summed it up when one of my friends sisters in law, seeing our interactions while I paid a visit to her family home asked her after I had left, ''what's it like to be treated so nicely. Is he like that all the time?'' For most people this would of sounded like a quite stupid question, but to an Egyptian wife....
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by carrie »

Dusak that may be the norm in your friends family but I know many where the wife is certainly the boss in her home, some of the husbands are quite scared of the wife and the majority of problems here with neighbors etc. are caused by the women they are on the whole very far from shrinking violets. As Mad Dylis says why do you think there are so many men in the coffee shops they go there to get a bit of peace and quiet.
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by newcastle »

Whilst seeking peace & quiet might be a motivation for some men to head for the coffee shop, it's also the case that, compared to the West, Egyptian men & women tend to socialise separately....for cultural reasons.

Coffee shops tend to be a male-only environment (where they can chat, smoke shisha, play backgammon or dominoes, watch TV etc.) whilst the women of the family, and female neighbours, will meet to gossip in, or just outside, the home.

No distinction between 'chat' and 'gossip' intended ;)
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Re: “Because I’m A Man’

Post by Dusak »

carrie wrote:Dusak that may be the norm in your friends family but I know many where the wife is certainly the boss in her home, some of the husbands are quite scared of the wife and the majority of problems here with neighbors etc. are caused by the women they are on the whole very far from shrinking violets. As Mad Dylis says why do you think there are so many men in the coffee shops they go there to get a bit of peace and quiet.
I understand your point carrie, but to the grater extent it is the norm. The public face is always different than the one shown in private, its a shameful topic to discuss outside of direct family. I know, and have known, a number of foreigners that live/have lived here that from the outside show that they are really happy and content with life, but inside, once you have got to know them better and become more open with you as a now accepted friend, it turns out to be a totally different story. Egyptian wives are no different, possibly far worse as they have not got the cash funds available to ''calm the troubled waters,'' so to speak. Just go out on the streets any time of the day, look at the expressions on nine out of ten middle aged women you pass, abject misery. Of course, this is only my opinion due to my observations, and those looks could be down to a number of factors, but while my friend is traveling back and forth on her 1-2 hour local bus journey on her way here, its amazing what total female strangers she happens to sit next to tell her about themselves while they travel. And of course, she relays them to me if she thinks they warrant mention, but she does like to talk as well :lol: a thing not readily available to foreigners living here that do not have an English speaking friend.
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