The Egyptian male.

What is it like to live in Luxor? Share your experiences of Luxor's culture.

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The Egyptian male.

Post by Dusak » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:36 am

First of all this is not the old and well worn topic of the few Egyptian males that form a relationship with a European woman that ends up with him taking all she possesses. It concerns me as a man, and how a different kind of action has affected me personally, three times, since I have lived here.

The latest incident happened on Xmas eave, I unaware of it until the following day when my friend came to my home visibly upset. Since Xmas day until now it has created a lot of anger within me, feelings of hatred towards this Egyptian man, a sense of frustration and put me in such a position that I can not discuss it with any of my friends that were present that night. It has upset my friend to the point of her being constantly afraid what my friends, that are also her friends, will think of her, even though it was not her fault, happenings that she had no control over, and if I had been made aware of this problem at the time, would/could of created a great deal of problems for myself, legal wise, because I think that I would of beaten the Egyptian man concerned as close to death that anyone would not like to be.

My apologies to the ones that will probably be issuing sighs of despair, thinking that it is another narcissistic post. This is not my intention, I just want to sound off and get the frustration that I am feeling off my chest concerning my dismay towards these few that consider themselves living above and beyond the excepted levels of decency. Before I tell of this latest one, one that has made me decide not to go out in the company of my friends in future, mainly because two other friends present that night also destroyed any feelings of friendship that I had towards them, but these I will not discuss fully, only broaching on the reasons later, even though none present that night are members of this forum. I will relate the first two episodes that concerned the Egyptians.

The first time I was affected by these marauders as I then called them was a time when there could be up to twenty five of us meeting up on certain nights in the local restaurants. One friend that came brought her new Egyptian husband with her. He seemed OK, but he had brought a male friend with him. This friend of his pestered a friend of mine so much that she had to move her place and meal next to mine. It was obvious that all he wanted was an European woman, so he had come on the hunt. And even when this good friend of mine was sitting beside me and my then wife, he carried on the pestering from across the table until I had to tell him to let her eat her food in peace. At the end of the night our friend was given a quiet talking too, informing her not to let her husband bring this other man again as he had caused embarrassment and upset towards the other single English female friends at the table that he also had tormented verbally. She had said sorry, and he would not be coming again.

Several months later we were all together again, this time my foster daughter was staying with us. The friend turned up with her Egyptian husband, this time he had brought along a different man. As they had arrived last, the only three seats left was next to my foster daughter. This new interloper was constantly putting his hand on my foster daughters knee, she was seventeen at the time. When I became aware of this, all hell broke loose from my mouth, an action that spoiled the night and destroyed the friendship of the woman with the Egyptian husband.

The second time it was a friends birthday, a celebration that was held at my home some three years back. My friend had brought several members of her family with her as it was also her birthday. Unfortunately my friends brother had brought his friend with him, mainly due to the fact that they needed two motorbikes to transport them all to my home. With the exception of this new visitor, everyone knew each other.

I had met this friend before, he, along with my friends brother, had helped me with some heavy lifting some months prior to this particular day. He seemed OK to me, speaking a little understandable English and he seemed to be obsessed with his FB page, continually making posts as we worked. He totally ruined the day by constantly harassing my European friend, wanting to have his photo taken with his arm around her so he could post them on FB. She was visibly annoyed/upset/uncomfortable with his unwanted attentions, pestering her for her contact details and asking me to arrange a meeting between the two of them. I was also highly embarrassed as it would seem to her that I had invited him. So I had to have a quiet word with my friend, telling her the problem and she would have to end the party to get this man out of my house. He created this torment as if it was the most natural thing to do, even after he had been talking about his Egyptian wife and child, with her expecting another. I really thought that this was the last time, until a few days ago.

Then this latest incident.

My friend and I had arrived last for the Xmas eaves party and we had been seated at the wall end of the table. I was sat next to a very long standing English friend of mine, my friend seated next to her new Egyptian Catholic boyfriend with me opposite her.

This was the first time that I had met him, although most of my other friends had been introduced several weeks ago, one of the downsides of me not going out that often. They all said the same, that he spoke excellent English, was polite and really helpful towards others and a good and intelligent conversationalist in company. It was also common knowledge that he was married with two children, but they had separated, she returning to the other end of the country with the children. My first thought was if he was as good as portrayed, then why the separation?

It was also evident that my friend was absolutely besotted with him. And it wasn't anything to do with money as she has enough to live on, but non to give away, which he knew. He even offers her money when he thinks she needs it, an offer that she declines. It is obvious that they both enjoy a 'full' relationship.

It was a genuine pleasure for me to watch my friend receive her unexpected presents from my friends, she was happy enough to just be seated in what she calls a posh restaurant. She was so happy that I could see tears welling up in her eyes as she opened all her gifts, she is always made a fuss of in the company of my friends.

We talked for about twenty minutes, she being constantly dragged into other peoples conversations. I had taken my computer with me to give copies of some latest films that I had been given to a couple of friends. So I started to transfer them over to their flash drives. I was still talking to my friend as I waited for them to complete. Up to that point she had only said hello to the Egyptian man as he was talking a lot to another friend of mine, male, about all methods there was in fixing the world. I saw her say something to the man, she later told me that she had just asked him if this was the first time he had met my friends, he replying that he had met most before. He then started a conversation with her, in Arabic.

At first he was asking the usual questions, all about me. How old was I, how long had we known each other. Was I wealthy, did I have children. Did I rent or did I own property and so one. I have always told my friend to answer such questions with honesty as it doesn't bother me, but it bothers her as she views it as disrespectful towards me.

It was then that their conversation was interrupted by the waiter delivering his ordered glass of red wine.

He had then asked my friend if she had ever drank alcohol, she replying no as she is Muslim. He stated that I probably drank a lot at home when she was not there as most Europeans did. She told him no as I do not like the taste of the alcohol here and hadn't had any for several years.

I noticed a movement from his hands that caused me to look over the top of the screen. He had taken hold of her hand with both of his. I noted that she had attempted to jerk her hand back, but he must of tightened his grip, preventing her from removing hers. So I mentioned that -----, another friend there had put a good film on the hard drive that she would enjoy, lifting my head up at the same time. It had the desired affect as he let go, but carried on talking to her. At that time I only felt a slight amusement towards this cheeky action, but stopped it as knowing my friend as well as I do, she would have been uncomfortable with him doing this as they had only just met half an hour ago, and he had been told that we would eventually marry, so he was being out of order, but not something that required me making it public that I disapproved, an action that could possibly spoil the night for others. But I now watched him more closely.

He had then told her that all old Europeans were very cold in bed, a younger healthy Egyptian was needed to ''warm it up'' and that she should have an open mind towards this and drinking alcohol. He said that in his other group of friends there is an Egyptian Catholic married to a very old English man, some eighty years of age, she about forty five. They can no longer have any sex, so she has an open mind. As she told me this I immediately knew he was talking about long time friends of mine that are totally devoted to each other and she, his wife, would never betray her husband. He then told my friend that she had a beautiful body, and that they should exchange phone numbers. My friend refused, so he said that this would probably be better as I and his partner was sitting opposite and he did not want her, his partner, to see the exchange. So he told her to go into the ladies, write down her number and give it to him under the table and he would ring her the next day. She had refused this also. My friend and the English woman are close friends and she would never do this to her or anyone else. At this point my friend tells me she was feeling very uncomfortable and at a loss as what to do.

He then told my friend that he had plenty of drink at his flat, which happens to be just round the corner from my own home, lots of ''bad films'' as he termed them that they could watch together. He also went on to say that he has plenty of phone numbers of Egyptian girls that he calls to come to his flat for drinks and to watch films. She would be welcome and if she was nervous about being on her own, he would get one of these girls to join them.

This was obviously the point that I saw her stand up and go to the other end of the table to talk with another friend of ours. And since I have fully explained to her what an 'open mind policy' entails, she not familiar with the term, she feels even more disgust towards him.

It truly amazes me that some Egyptian men think that when they speak of others this way, in regards to a European having an Egyptian partner, that that Egyptian partner is not going to repeat what has been said.

I have visited Europeans that have Egyptian partners with my friend in the past, and yes that person [the Egyptian] has asked the usual questions about me, but has also been very forthcoming with information about their, [the Egyptians] and their partners uses, thinking that these sometimes disparaging remarks will be just be between the two of them, they being so called brothers in arms. But not so as she tells me everything that is spoken of in Arabic in case I want to tell those friends of mine what is being spoken off, but I have no interest in doing so, better to let them find out themselves and as we all know, it tends to fall on deaf ears, creates tension between you and whatever friend is being informed and really isn't worth the time, effort and bother.

She tells me that she had to sit there and listen to all of this as she was afraid of causing a scene if she had reacted. And, knowing me as she does, I would of reacted. Plus my English friend would have been deeply upset when finding out what all the fuss was about. It would of ruined everybody's night, a thing that my friend would not like to be the cause of, as she saw it.

I admire her for that, but very upset that she had to go through such an ordeal. So, I no longer wish to be in the company of this individual, nor the two others that I mentioned earlier, and I have no desire or intention of mentioning what happened that night to my friend. Unfortunately she will have to find out the hard way, that's if she believed it anyway as love tends to be blind, and they [the totally besotted] usually live a life of blind faith.

As GD is always stating, if you took the trouble to learn the language then life would be easier. Maybe so, but even if I had a decent level of understanding of Arabic, the speed these people talk would, I think, negate any usefulness towards understanding what is being discussed, allowing you to understand just bits of what is being said.

For want of a better term, for them, in situations as above, the Arabic language is used as a weapon of stealth when used in the company of non speakers of that language. I usually rely on facial gestures to partly understand what is being spoken of in relation to myself or the use of familiar words and phrases and usually my friends eyes go wide when I mention a point or subject matter. ''How you know this?'' is her usual grinning reaction.

As I stated earlier on, I will not discuss the black and white reasons as to why my other two friends contributed to my taking the decision of not joining my usual group for future nights out, although the few that I still hold dear will meet up on a separate night.

It could be [their change of personality] attributed to old age in one case, although the attitude of this person has always been hard to swallow for the past eight years, but at a level that was manageable or easy to ignore. But now has reached a level of non tolerance. The others attitude just turned over a period of several weeks, and not just towards myself, others are now beginning to suffer from the same.

This has created an uncomfortable atmosphere, made more difficult as the two concerned seem to be totally unaware to what they have created amongst my/their group of friends. A couple of weeks ago I did attempt to have a reasonable conversation with the first person mentioned here, but was soon on the receiving end of a foul mouthed retaught, one of complete denial.

We all have to live with our daily minor problems, but as the old saying goes, you do not bring them to work, or in my case, to an evening out with friends.

The latest update is that the relationship between my friend and this Egyptian seems to have taken a sudden downturn for reasons unknown but not connected to the Xmas eave's incident.

Has anyone else suddenly discovered that they have been part of a conversation without invite to the levels that I have spoken of here?


Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by HEPZIBAH » Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:24 pm

Dusak, I spend most of my life amongst people who's first language is not English but Japanese however, our common language is English. I do my best to instil in them the importance that when socialising with people of other native tongues - predominantly English in our situation - then they should use their English, no matter how limited. Of course when they are all together they speak Japanese, even though they are supposed to be practising their English, and may well, even in my presence revert to Japanese a lot of the time.

I would just like to encourage your special Egyptian lady friend that, should she ever find herself in such a situation again, i.e in the company of mainly English speakers and then being conversed to 'privately' in Arabic for anything more than perhaps an Egyptian person needing help in understanding the English, she should feel free to take control from the start. She can say from the outset that as she/they are in company of people who do not speak or understand Arabic well or at all, that it is rude to hold a conversation - private or general - in Arabic and that she would prefer to stick with English.

In and ideal world, having lived in Luxor so long, and having Egyptian friends, you would be able to converse in Arabic. But this isn't an ideal world and second languages just do not come easy to many people no matter how hard we try. I know I struggled when staying with Egyptian friends when the one person in the family who spoke almost perfect English was absent. It's equally frustrating to me with my Moroccan friends as only my host and I can communicate through our limited French and the rest of the family don't even understand my smattering of Arabic because it's so different to the Egyptian Arabic. However, although my hosts should make some effort to make me feel comfortable, it is for me to adapt to the situation and not the other way round.

It is a shame that you have had to distance yourself from European friends, but if they cannot respect you and your special friend when in your company, they probably aren't when out of it either, so you are probably better off without them being to close.
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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by Glyphdoctor » Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:37 pm

No.

And I don't see this as a language issue, since my name has been mentioned I need to set the record straight. This is about values and hanging out in situations that are outside the societal norms. You go out to Xmas dinner with a married Catholic man who is obviously skipping Mass to go out with his European affair partner. These are people who obviously have no respect for either religion or societal norms or family, and so you should expect if you socialize with people like this, that it is an atmosphere of anything goes. Whose or what moral values do you expect to govern such situations? It's a free for all and anyone can do what they want.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by carrie » Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:42 pm

I'm sorry Dusak to say this but this Egyptian man abviously thought your "friend" was as we say up for it. I'm afraid this is part of the price you have to pay for the relationship you have with her. I can understand her not wanting to create a scene in front of other people but had it been me in the same situation I would have let everyone know what was happening regardless of the embarrassment.,to you and to others.
I do think you are wise to keep away from this company in the future, they are obviously mixing with others who are very disrespectful. You have to remember however that we are European and that we can accept and understand that there can be friendships between men and women, it is practically unknown here though and leads to all kind s of unsavoury speculation and chancing the arm, by ill educated ignorant males.

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by Who2 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:53 pm

My KKK film nights do-not include husbands, boyfriends, lovers or their ilk, Why ? well the girls here who have the latter did not want them attending as they know what egyptian lovers can be like, the one and only time a lady bought her MMD he answered a phone call and proceeded to talk a load of shiite to someone loudly during the middle of our film 'totally oblivious to his and our surroundings.
Tip: Don't get involved, don't do home visits, weddings or funerals, ignore this advice at your peril you will it's the nature of the human... :cool:
'habibi, habibi, habibi,, I know it's difficult but, try to suppress that little 'itch....
Ps: I appreciate the length and the concern contained in your post.
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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by Glyphdoctor » Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:30 pm

carrie wrote:You have to remember however that we are European and that we can accept and understand that there can be friendships between men and women, it is practically unknown here though and leads to all kind s of unsavoury speculation and chancing the arm, by ill educated ignorant males.
I have to agree with most of what you say, except I would not say that they are ill educated or ignorant. They certainly know their own culture and they know what it means to be in that social environment and what the expectations are between the sexes in that situation. It may be unsavory, but if you don't want to be in that sort of situation, you don't put yourself in it in the first place.

You just can't pick and choose what moral values suit yourself and then expect others who are picking and choosing what moral values suit them to randomly choose the same ones you do. If you are OK with your European friend having an affair with a married man then you have no moral high ground to expect him to stay away from Egyptian females who move in the same social circles as you.

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by Scottishtourist » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:00 pm

I find it a bit sad really that your friend had to put up with this type of behaviour Dusak.
It has probably negated the true spirit and meaning of Christmas for her,both present and future,and that really is very unfortunate.
It should have been a pleasant,joyful,shared experience with good friends,good company and everyone never quite forgetting what the occasion is all about..and why they are gathering to celebrate it!

I always find it a strange habit that some people always have to drag along a "hanger on"to any event...Why?
Is it a confidence issue?

I was subjected to it a few times.I met a man in Luxor who invited me for coffee.
The first time I went to meet him we went to a coffee shop.Lo and behold!Within 5 minutes of arriving,we were descended upon by a group of his "friends."They all started yapping away in Arabic at a rapid speed,ordering teas,smoking shishas..and a jolly time was had by all..except me!
They were not impolite or rude to me..but I kinda saw others "looking"at the scenario (Egyptian women too)and felt decidedly uncomfortable with it.I'm not paranoid..but I had no idea what they were saying.Far from feeling welcome..I actually ended up feeling quite distressed.
This happened on the few occasions I joined him for a coffee..so I have removed myself from the situation.No more coffee and chit-chat!It's a bit sad that we could not speak honestly as adults without his relying on "friends"to swell the numbers.

Social gatherings now are mainly confined to my married Egyptian friends,along with their huge extended family,wives,sisters,grandfather,children,etc.
We meet in gardens,have evening picnics,etc.
They all have some grasp of English..but will constantly revert to Arabic when together.
THIS is something I do not have a problem with.
Although I may not understand what they're talking about,I find it a far safer scenario.They are aware of my customs,faith and sense of morals..and I am aware of theirs.

I sincerely hope that your friend will just put this unfortunate experience down to the ignorance and lack of manners that some people have..and their utter disregard for other peoples feelings.

And p.s,as my mum always said "you are known by the company you keep."So get rid of these so called acquaintances.They're doing you no favours.x

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by Robbo70 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:24 pm

It wouldn't do any harm to learn some basic Arabic, because despite the speed they go, you can pick up a lot of words and get the general gist of what is going on around you fairly quickly. More importantly, learn to keep a blank expression and not acknowledge what you have understood. I can act daft with the best of them, but I have a good idea what the conversation around me is about.
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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by Scottishtourist » Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:58 pm

Robbo70 wrote:It wouldn't do any harm to learn some basic Arabic, because despite the speed they go, you can pick up a lot of words and get the general gist of what is going on around you fairly quickly. More importantly, learn to keep a blank expression and not acknowledge what you have understood. I can act daft with the best of them, but I have a good idea what the conversation around me is about.
That's very true Robbo.
But the fact was that I had been invited out by ONE person for a coffee!
I can understand Egyptian hospitality..but just could not understand why a group of "interlopers"had to join the scenario.
And ones I didn't know!

Would it really have been too much to ask that they said "hello"and introduced themselves..then went about their business?Would that not have shown a bit more respect to me and their "friend?"..the one who had no problem chatting to me in English when he asked to meet me?

I just thought it was a wee bit ignorant,unwarranted and disrespectful!

And p.s...guess who had to pick up the tab?
Yours truly..cos they all buggered off quick enough when I intimated it was time for me to go back to my hotel!

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by HEPZIBAH » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:06 pm

Scottishtourist wrote:
And p.s...guess who had to pick up the tab?
Yours truly..cos they all buggered off quick enough when I intimated it was time for me to go back to my hotel!
What! Even the guy that invited you to coffee? If so you were well shut of him too.
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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by Scottishtourist » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:19 pm

HEPZIBAH wrote:
Scottishtourist wrote:
And p.s...guess who had to pick up the tab?
Yours truly..cos they all buggered off quick enough when I intimated it was time for me to go back to my hotel!
What! Even the guy that invited you to coffee? If so you were well shut of him too.
Lol Hepzibah!!
He did pay for mine and his coffees and teas.
But..it's a horrible thing to say!

I often find that Egyptian people (especially the ones in tourist resorts)interpret kindness as weakness!!

My bugbear is that I really wanted to tell them to **** *** and leave us alone!
I neither wanted nor needed their company.
But they jumped on a bandwagon..and I was too polite to say so!

It can be very difficult to draw a line between genuine and chancers!
I thought I was merely being philanthropic and generous.
I wasn't!I was being used,abused and disrespected!

I've learned!Thank God there was no Orfi,money or visas mentioned..or I'd have learned a much harder lesson!x

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:17 am

Dusak Dusak Dusak - I could write a book based on your post...but suffice......apples & oranges, oil & vinegar, never the twain shall meet blah blah blah blah blah......YOU need to get a few books on Egyptian psychology & sociology & culture and societal & personal norms and read 'em 'til you internalize them and start really thinking about the society you're living in and what is considered normal and appropriate. Seriously you MUST do this. You need to set out in black and white clear rules and expectations i.e. no sidebar conversations in any language other than English when in a group and ANY words spoken in Arabic MUST and WILL be translated immediately verbatim etc etc etc. You NEED to learn Arabic and you definitely NEED to learn your own role in Egyptian society i.e. why when an Egyptian man touched your lady friend didn't immediately react? Believe me if YOU had grabbed his wife's hands he would have reacted (although you'd probably never ever ever have been given the opportunity). Anyway ..........!!!

I'm not trying to be argumentative or do an I told you so after the fact and I appreciate your venting but you are describing several scenarios that have cost you friends and relationships and you seem very naïve to the Egyptian psyche and what is appropriate behavior.

I think Hepzibah and Who2 have given excellent advice.

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:17 am

Dusak Dusak Dusak - I could write a book based on your post...but suffice......apples & oranges, oil & vinegar, never the twain shall meet blah blah blah blah blah......YOU need to get a few books on Egyptian psychology & sociology & culture and societal & personal norms and read 'em 'til you internalize them and start really thinking about the society you're living in and what is considered normal and appropriate. Seriously you MUST do this. You need to set out in black and white clear rules and expectations i.e. no sidebar conversations in any language other than English when in a group and ANY words spoken in Arabic MUST and WILL be translated immediately verbatim etc etc etc. You NEED to learn Arabic and you definitely NEED to learn your own role in Egyptian society i.e. why when an Egyptian man touched your lady friend didn't immediately react? Believe me if YOU had grabbed his wife's hands he would have reacted (although you'd probably never ever ever have been given the opportunity). Anyway ..........!!!

I'm not trying to be argumentative or do an I told you so after the fact and I appreciate your venting but you are describing several scenarios that have cost you friends and relationships and you seem very naïve to the Egyptian psyche and what is appropriate behavior.

I think Hepzibah and Who2 have given excellent advice.

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:33 am

LovelyLadyLux wrote: You NEED to learn Arabic and you definitely NEED to learn your own role in Egyptian society i.e. why when an Egyptian man touched your lady friend didn't immediately react? Believe me if YOU had grabbed his wife's hands he would have reacted (although you'd probably never ever ever have been given the opportunity). Anyway ..........!!!
A wife and a friend are two different things. Without a marriage between two people, the man has no rights over the woman, although he can come to her defense in the defense of decency, but not because of his relationship with the female. I've seen foreign women talk about how their Egyptian boyfriends try to fend off other males and frankly I see that as a red flag. The guy isn't even married to them and he is acting like he has some sort of rights to her. That Dusak wants to kill this man is a bit disturbing and reminds me of these jealous men.

Dusak has NO role here, at least not a role that any other male at the table would have. He may imagine he does, but then he also has a distorted view of the rights and roles of others around him. He is worried that his European friend might be upset if she found out her Egyptian boyfriend was propositioning another female at the table, as if the European friend has any rights over another woman's husband to begin with!

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:39 am

Who2 wrote:My KKK film nights do-not include husbands, boyfriends, lovers or their ilk,
It would be a bit hypocritical to do that though if you have one yourself..

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:10 am

A wife and a friend are two different things. Without a marriage between two people, the man has no rights over the woman, although he can come to her defense in the defense of decency, but not because of his relationship with the female. I've seen foreign women talk about how their Egyptian boyfriends try to fend off other males and frankly I see that as a red flag. The guy isn't even married to them and he is acting like he has some sort of rights to her. That Dusak wants to kill this man is a bit disturbing and reminds me of these jealous men.

Dusak has NO role here, at least not a role that any other male at the table would have. He may imagine he does, but then he also has a distorted view of the rights and roles of others around him. He is worried that his European friend might be upset if she found out her Egyptian boyfriend was propositioning another female at the table, as if the European friend has any rights over another woman's husband to begin with!
D'accord - agreed. The entire role / relationship scenario thing is blurred - just not right by Egyptian societal norms.

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by Dusak » Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:31 am

Glyphdoctor wrote:No.

And I don't see this as a language issue, since my name has been mentioned I need to set the record straight. This is about values and hanging out in situations that are outside the societal norms. You go out to Xmas dinner with a married Catholic man who is obviously skipping Mass to go out with his European affair partner. These are people who obviously have no respect for either religion or societal norms or family, and so you should expect if you socialize with people like this, that it is an atmosphere of anything goes. Whose or what moral values do you expect to govern such situations? It's a free for all and anyone can do what they want.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I made mention of you in agreement to your past suggestions, not one to raise your heckles.

The friend concerned has no religious interests, but is a good person at heart. So is she to be considered bad because of none religious ties? No, not in my book. Does it make him a bad person because he chose to go out in the company of others instead of his church and friends? No, there are a lot of people that do not go to church that are very respectable in their lives, as there are lots that do go to church that have no respect.

How am I to know what a person will be like in company before I've even met him? All I had to go on was what I had been told by others. And you suggest that it isn't a social norm or it is unacceptable to have another nationality male/female friend? It seems to have worked out OK for you. To have a relationship between two consenting adults that now have no marriage ties to adhere to? People like this? Again you pick your friends, I did not choose him, nor did my friend, others allowed him into the circle. I they/I had said no, would it be seen as being because he was of a different race? We are all adults, adults that are allowed to make their own judgements based on what they observe, and as adults we will be constantly making mistakes as well as changes to our lives.

The morel values of a person are the set norm for that person, it is not an infection that can infect others because they are in the same company.

If you are like this man obviously is, a predator of women, then you tell me how you can differentiate them from the so called, socially exceptable 'normal' ones until you have met them?

Disregarding this country, have you or others never been in the company of a friend, a speaker of another language, then another friend of the foreigner turns up and joins you? They start to speak in English because you are there then suddenly start speaking their native language without realizing it. This has happened to me on many occasion, with them suddenly realizing their slip and apologizing.

And this is what happened to my friend. He instigated the conversation in Arabic, so my friend continued in Arabic. She didn't think, but he had thought of the advantages of reverting to Arabic. My friend would not of reacted because she would not create a scene that would upset me or my/her European friends at the table, something like this is not in her nature.

As for feeling like half killing him, I think that most would do the same if fully aware of the conversation. And I think that a member on here showed the same failed restraint as I would of shown if given the chance. As far as I'm concerned it is my duty to protect my friend in all situations that she herself can not control and has no wish to be part of. Its is called love and devotion, an emotion that I'm man enough to show in or out of the public eye.

Example.

Your in a restaurant with your wife. A stranger walks past your table and looks at your wife's breasts.

He says, ''Nice rack lady.''

A- Do you, as the devoted husband, slap the table top issuing cackling laughter towards your wife telling her ''see baby, I always said you had great tits.''

B- Stand up while taking your jacket off exposing your 'I'm a mouse' T-shirt, or

C- Stand up, confront the insulter and give him a Kirby kiss? [you will have to Google that term]

We would all like to control the situations we may find ourselves in at various time of our lives, but unfortunately for a variety of reasons, this is not always possible.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by Who2 » Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:13 am

Glyphdoctor wrote:
Who2 wrote:My KKK film nights do-not include husbands, boyfriends, lovers or their ilk,
It would be a bit hypocritical to do that though if you have one yourself..
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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by dsaxelby » Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:57 am

It truly amazes me that some Egyptian men think that when they speak of others this way, in regards to a European having an Egyptian partner, that that Egyptian partner is not going to repeat what has been said.


Not just Egyptian, D many men will put women in this situation and play on the fact that the women will not say to her friend, mother in my case what had transpired. I am guilty of this with regards my mother and her guy, in fact 3 of her guys, one being my step father, and her boyfriend, the doubts that I would be believed, ruin her happiness, etc.... but then to have to live with the animal was terrible. I did tell her what my godfather did, she was supportive I do not know what he said but I was no longer invited to the parties or gatherings.

My own daughter had to tell me about my man, and rather than reject him and leave it in the air to ensure there was no doubt, she played the conversation. It lead to discussion on what if I was dead..... No mistake he was so out of our lives, but it was hard on her and at the time hard on me.

You friend is quiet and very smart, to move was really the only thing to do at the time and then to tell you, I suspect she is viewed differently by Egyptian guys purely for the fact she was there. My Egyptian teacher refused to come to my home, even though we would be alone, she did not want to offend me and I was not, there are strict rules for the ladies, in a town were gossip and finger pointing can destroy a life, and many cannot wait to do so.

A mother was complaining about the size of an apartment that she had to buy material for on her daughters wedding, the soon to be husband said do not worry, to this the mother went into one, she said 'and have people say about us that we could not take care of my daughter. He answered I cannot win!
It is what it is.

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Re: The Egyptian male.

Post by BENNU » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:52 am

Dusak wrote: I noticed a movement from his hands that caused me to look over the top of the screen. He had taken hold of her hand with both of his. I noted that she had attempted to jerk her hand back
...
he was being out of order, but not something that required me making it public that I disapproved, an action that could possibly spoil the night for others. But I now watched him more closely.
...
He had then told her that all old Europeans were very cold in bed, a younger healthy Egyptian was needed to ''warm it up'' and that she should have an open mind towards this and drinking alcohol... He then told my friend that she had a beautiful body, and that they should exchange phone numbers.
...
He then told my friend that he had plenty of drink at his flat, which happens to be just round the corner from my own home, lots of ''bad films'' as he termed them that they could watch together. He also went on to say that he has plenty of phone numbers of Egyptian girls that he calls to come to his flat for drinks and to watch films.
...
She tells me that she had to sit there and listen to all of this as she was afraid of causing a scene if she had reacted.
Dusak wrote:Has anyone else suddenly discovered that they have been part of a conversation without invite to the levels that I have spoken of here?
You do not suddenly find yourself on those levels. I avoid situtions in which I would never have found myself had it not been for the "wonderful husbands" brought to a party by women in denial and other creeps. One look from such a character is enough for me to stop him from even talking to me. It works - all over the world - because they know what they are doing, and as they sense that they will be getting nowhere, they do not want to cause that scene.

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