The beginning of the end.

What is it like to live in Luxor? Share your experiences of Luxor's culture.

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The beginning of the end.

Post by WIZARD » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:10 pm

Is this the beginning of the end for tourism in Luxor? Why are so many expats leaving Luxor in large numbers and returning to their home countries in droves. Is it because they've had enough of the intolerable situation in Luxor, or do they fear the humiliation and disruption to their lives and homes, and the real possibility of being suddenly deported without reason.

The situation for resident expats in Luxor has never been so uncertain, or unsafe, and it's getting worse as more and more Egyptian families are finding it increasingly difficult to feed their children, or pay their rent, and find the only way to survive is to resort to crime.

Too many friends of resident Luxor expats who would normally be visiting Luxor and their friends at this time of year, have booked their holidays elsewhere. Who then is to blame for this fiasco. Obviously someone who doesn't know the first thing about tourists or tourism. As it's been said before, if tourists are unhappy, they will vote with their feet, and go elsewhere. "He who pays the piper calls the tune", not the other way round. A five year old child could work that one out for itself.


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Re: Is this the beginning of the end.

Post by HEPZIBAH » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:37 pm

There are more pieces to that jigsaw though. At the moment money is tight for so many Brits and other Europeans. Add to that the cost of flights, where available, have increased considerably on many holiday routes - including Luxor. You maybe able to pick up some good deals but they tend, as always, to be geared towards 'resort' or AI holidays or to those who can go away at fairly short notice.

For Egypt, this all adds to the other internal problems it has that naturally affect tourism - not least the overall lack of [effective] policing, no sitting government etc. Ramadan is also a time that tourists are wary of travelling to any islamic country (or maybe they are just worried there will be no alcohol available!). Read any travel forums and the reports of alcohol being banned, having to cover up completely on the beaches, and worrying about what they will be allowed to wear even at the hotel pool, has put many off.

Another piece in the jigsaw is that many people plan their holidays months in advance but as Egypt was going through the throws of so many elections - much needed to hopefully get the country started on the road to stability - again many people really were not confident it was the right time to book with so many uncertainties!
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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by Bombay » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:44 pm

Lets hope its not the beginning of the end.
As per my recently updated UK flights to Luxor Cosmos/Monarch are resuming flights 2 months ahead of their original planned date of Nov, other companies are increasing the size of their aircraft to Luxor and may reinstate some other flights removed last year if bookings keep on increasing.
R

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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by Winged Isis » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:02 am

Ooh Wiz, with that topic title you frightened me: I thought you were going to give us the worst news about your visa situation! :x

Now I've recovered... I think, as usual, Hepzi has summed it up accurately and calmly :-) . As Private Jones would say, "Don't panic! Don't panic!".... just yet. Give the new President time to hit his straps. I think he's off to a pretty good start. God give him strength to go on.
Carpe diem! :le:

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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by Chocolate Eclair » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:07 am

I think you will find Wiz is perfectly correct in whatr he says! It is starting to get to be an uphevel living in Luxor, and that has changed dramatically over the past 18 months. This visa situation is a real mess, and you cannot keep going along wondering if you will be refused a visa or not year after year. I think it should be a lot more flexible than the system is at the moment. Regarding the police its not just the fact the Police are ineffective, it is across the board, non of the official departments seem to work without the joint being oiled, and this is no way of progressing at all... I personally would think that many ex pats have now got their homes up for sale, hoping to sell them and find another place to live or maybe return home to peace and quiet. The worse part is, there is no Official in Luxor to dispell this situation or to clear it up, and that is why this terrible state of affairs will just rumble on and on!!!

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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by LivinginLuxor » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:55 am

Expats leaving in droves? I think not - at least within my circle of friends.

Wiz asks who is responsible for this alleged flight - to me, it is obvious. Since the Revolution, and even more so since the Presidential election, the Islamophobia shown by the Western media has done more to put people off coming here than the small rise in crime over the past 18 months, or the rantings of some 'religious' fanatics.

Imagine what your town or city would be like if there were no effective policing for even a week, and you have to admit that despite its faults, Egypt is a far more settled country than Britain!

Hepzi's post seems to explain most of the downturn - the appalling downturn in the economy, the uncertainty of having a job or a roof over your head tomorrow, coupled with ever increasing air-fares (partly due to the government increasing taxes) has not just affected Luxor, but many tourist destinations. Spain is suffering in its tourist business, and apparently expats there are also returning to Britain in droves because of the situation there.
I might agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong!
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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by TonyC » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:35 am

Winged Isis wrote:I think, as usual, Hepzi has summed it up accurately and calmly :-) . As Private Jones would say, "Don't panic! Don't panic!".... just yet.
I second that (though you've demoted that illustrious butcher from Corporal! :D )

Are there any figures for expats leaving in droves? I know several who've left to escape the summer heat – as they do every year – but they'll be back towards the end of September. As for visitors, you don't expect many at this time of year, but Bombay's post does indicate that winter booking are on the increase. I'm sure there must be a wide perception that it's all dreadful here, as people react to the "trouble in Egypt" headlines. I'm not even sure friends who e-mail me full of concern are wholly convinced by my reassurances!

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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by Chocolate Eclair » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:19 am

I think there are lots of reasons why people are wanting to leave Luxor, from the dissaray of the Visa system to the financial securities of living here, the lack of the feeling of securities caused by the poor Policing and the Jurisdicial system, that seems to have no space for incoming people. The dreadful infighting and accusations from other ex pats makes Luxor not not a very nice place to live. People, I think are just getting sick and fed up of it all. The proper thing to do is either settle down and live a decent life maybe a lonley life, or just leave. I say a lonely life because being by yourself is the only way of keeping your private life to yourself or escaping the WAG's of Luxor

Regarding the Tourist situation that will not change for a long time, not because of above, but because of what L in L states there is a raging recession going on, people cannot afford to travel or make the commitmant to an overseas holiday because of the fear of them loosing their jobs. Dont forget either that Luxor is not like it was 5 years ago, it is now expensive for tourists, not just the holiday but also when they get here. The shops, trying to recoup their losses are charging outrageous prices to tourists, and tourists are not stupid with their money anymore. The amount of people you see asking the price of things and then calculating the cost in their own currancy. This is also a plague for Europeans living here. I went into a shop in Gourna to ask the cost of a cooker and a fridge due to mine being damaged in a recent flood, the lady in the shop told me the price which I thought was not bad, I went back the next day to buy and the lady was not there, a man was there and he put the cooker up by 250 le and the Fridge up by 200le needless to say after explaining that we had been quoted prices the day previously that were 450le lower for both items I left the shop and he never got a sale, and the shop will never get revisited by myself again.

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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by hatusu » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:27 am

Hotel Sheherazade is starting to get good bookings for October and November. I went to get my visa a couple of days ago and lo, there was a miracle - for the first time ever my passport was ready and waiting for me at the time stipulated! A First for the Passport Office. On the same day there were several police and army personnel checking all the traffic at the HSBC Bank roundabout. They were there for about 2 hours checking documents (I presume licences). I personally think that things are on the up at last.

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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by Jane Akshar » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:36 am

I returned to Luxor on Monday after 3 weeks in the UK and the flight was fully booked, loads of tourists but lots or ex-pats too. I was chatting to the captain and he told me all his recent flights had been fully booked. As Stan mentions it depends on your circle of friends but in mine none have left
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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by WIZARD » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:35 am

Well now, in all humility, and after reading all of the above replys, what else can I say, other then, let's wait and see how many of our illustrious, opinionated, well informed and highly respected posters are right about this extremely worrying situation in Luxor. Let's hope to God it's not a case of, "There's none so blind as those who will not see".
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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by timetraveller » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:07 pm

This thread has got me thinking about just how many people I do know who have left Luxor quite recently, and to be honest until now I didn't realise it was so many. Not all were 'friends' as such but all among my general acquaintance. I can think of about a dozen who have left permanently, although one moved to Hurghada. Most have left voluntarily, but a few due to Visa issues. The majority have left since the 'Revolution' but a couple of them shortly beforehand. Does this seem a lot? It's all a matter of perspective I suppose, but although people I have known have 'drifted off' over the years, mostly back to the UK I don't personally recall the departure rate being that high. :(

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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by Who2 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:11 pm

Besides the price of white goods increasing so has the price of firearms, 13OOquid for an 8O year old double hammerlock, now if it had been a purdy, boss or holland and holland...:cool:
Ps: to people selling their homes, hope they don't expect a profit, if it had been one of the three above Iv'e have sold it for 3Ok and buy next-door.
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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by Who2 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:36 pm

PSS: on the other hand it could be the 'end of the beginning, sort of 'cup half full, it's really all a matter of ones' personal perspective..Now it's haircut time! a 'no2s all over...:cool:
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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by Chocolate Eclair » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:35 pm

Wiz, you are correct in many things, there are people that have left completely fed up, we knew the owner of the Oasis was going months ago, we also know of two other couples that are wanting to close shop and go. The trouble is you only hear about it when they have gone, and not what they are planning. (And rightly so) we would not want the WAG's making a mountain out of a molehill. There are at the moment, so many reasons for these people not to live in Luxor. Then you get the people in what Who calls the "Rose Coloured Spec Wearers", who come across here and have no income at all, thinking they can work and pay for their time, they are wrong, if there is no work for locals then there is no work for incommers unless they want to work for peanuts to pay the rent. And the other RCSW who are living in poverty but would would not hear anything said about Luxor even though they are suffering themselves. The only proper way to come and live here is by having some form of income, pension or works pension. I know of a couple having to return home and they will be greeted by the debt collectors, and other's wanting their blood. How they will live back home I do not know because the minute they arrive they will have to re-register, if they do not they will be in trouble. The minute they re-register they will be pounced on. But this is the risk they are prepared to take.

I gather many people are very bored here too, because they seem to have nothing to do except, mess about, behind a mask with other people. Sorry but these people are gutter dwellers, and maybe they should go home. They will not be so bored when they go home.

I think most people expected that after almost 2 years there would be some form of progress after the Revolution, but for the people the progress is slow, and soon there will be problems, people will only give a certain time to see some form of progress, after that it turns sour. Similar to the UK's Unemployment Problems, = Unemployment goes up and so does crime, especially theft and burgalry mainly the thief is looking for property to sell on to get money to live on. The same happens all over the world there is no getting away from it.

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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by hatusu » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:38 pm

WIZARD wrote:Well now, in all humility, and after reading all of the above replys, what else can I say, other then, let's wait and see how many of our illustrious, opinionated, well informed and highly respected posters are right about this extremely worrying situation in Luxor. Let's hope to God it's not a case of, "There's none so blind as those who will not see".
Ive just done a quick tally and counted 13 expats that I know of that are returning at various times during the next 2 months.

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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by WIZARD » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:24 pm

hatusu wrote:
WIZARD wrote:Well now, in all humility, and after reading all of the above replys, what else can I say, other then, let's wait and see how many of our illustrious, opinionated, well informed and highly respected posters are right about this extremely worrying situation in Luxor. Let's hope to God it's not a case of, "There's none so blind as those who will not see".

Ive just done a quick tally and counted 13 expats that I know of that are returning at various times during the next 2 months.


Thank you hatusu for that information.
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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by Shareen » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:49 pm

I cannot think of one person I know who has upped sticks and gone back to the UK permanently. Some have gone for the summer, but that's pretty normal and nothing new.

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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by Cyprus100 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:27 pm

My friend from UK visits Luxor regularly 2 or 3 times a year. She generally books her flight and a nile cruise independent from each other.

This summer, prices for a 2 week return flight from Manchester is almost 500 GBP per person for August/September whereas before prices were between 250 to 400 GBP maximum for a return flight.

As for flights being fully booked, the only reason charter flights are fully booked is that there are less charter flights available. What used to be separate flights being operated by individual tour operators have now become merged flights since Thomson decide to fight it out with the monopolies and merger conglomerates.

Three flights on Wednesday are no more.... and that's keeping the prices at top whack.
Michele,
Previously living in Limassol, Cyprus but now back in UK since 2016 :-(
Egypt is now so far away....

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Re: The beginning of the end.

Post by Bullet Magnet » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:38 pm

..All my local Monday and Wednesday flights have now moved to ONE Saturday only flight....

Says it all really.. :cool:
There's a time for everyone, if they only learn
That the twisting kaleidoscope moves us all in turn.

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