Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post details here of scams you have discovered or hassles you have experienced.
10+ posts are required to post in this section.

Moderators: Horus, DJKeefy, 4u Network

User avatar
dsaxelby
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 425
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:31 pm
Has thanked: 1353 times
Been thanked: 491 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by dsaxelby » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:53 pm

carrie wrote:Yes I know the contract is translated into English and you have a licenced translator fair enough if that is good enough for you but I have heard so many horror stories and they always say BUT we had the documents translated into English AND we had a licenced translator. The licenced translator is quite often a tour guide, any tour guide with an ID that says he/she is an English tour guide is acceptable in the court offices. The level of English offered by the majority of tour guides judging by the tours I have been on, I would no sooner trust them to translate a legal document for me than jump over the moon.
I understand what you mean Carrie my first translator had lost his ID, we had to wait at the office for another to arrive and confirm the contents, I do not if I am lucky in my transaction or if they now have tightened up the regulations. Mine has been registered and I hope this is enough but part of me always worries.

Also the electric and water bills were transferred it would seem that this was more important than the sale contract :o


It is what it is.

lotusflower
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:30 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland and Luxor
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 66 times
Gender:
Ireland

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by lotusflower » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:58 pm

Every square inch of Egyptian land has a title - title to the land meaning ownership.


http://www.justlanded.com/Egypt/Egypt-G ... gistration


The lawyers involved in these land stealing deals in Luxor should be struck off the Egyptian Bar Association.

User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by Glyphdoctor » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:17 am

lotusflower wrote:
If I ever built a house on the west bank and this happened to me and I then realised that someone had stolen my property with some arse..hl papers believe me I would be most certain that that house would never be left standing..........
The West Bank has its own local system of settling disputes between locals that is quite effective at reining in and punishing violations and crimes of various kinds between individuals and families. The problem is it is informal, although somewhat recognized by the government. However, foreigners seem to operate in a grey area of sorts as both perpetrators and victims. Just as shocking as some of the victimization of foreigners is, I also find some of the stuff that foreigners seem to get away with simply because they seem to be outside the family/local justice system.

Eurydice
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:04 am
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 24 times
Egypt

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by Eurydice » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:30 am

The Egyptian locals from the WB discussed here, mostly care about their funky status, their power to use and abuse foreigners and throw them out. And all this is being done not only for money but also for enjoyment. First they take one's funds, then they abuse them physically and morally and after the victim gives up they employ jobless boys on the street to call a victim bad names. So it all looks that all what happenned is the victim's own fault.

Born in poverty, uneducated, empty inside and hungry for more and again more, they take pride in their fraudulent and cruel actions and boast in front of each other in that dirty cheap corner street cafeteria in Gezira which, being on a strategic location, immediately exposes any new arrival to their cunning schemes.

As to their European Orfi-wives, most of them (I do not say all) act as pimps putting on a nice PR facade on their husbands' businesses, being obliged to follow in the wake of their Orfis and to use the tricks of manipulation, fraud, cruelty and theft. If not, they our out of the game and back to their cold expensive countries. Unfortunately this is so. :x :x :x :!:

Maat
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:07 am
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 10 times
United Kingdom

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by Maat » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:36 am

lotusflower wrote:I am deeply disturbed by the contents of this scam with this white house. This is happening quite a bit on the West Bank (and East Bank, Luxor I presume although I am not aware of any case) and somehow or other it will have to be stopped.
Errrrr, my guide, a licensed interpreter for my small issue in Shara Karey told me that his family lost a property on the East Bank by fraudulent deeds of other locals. I confer that yes, they do that to each other there regardless of nationality.

And yes, they have to learn the lesson well, we agree, but what a lady is supposed to do now? To blow the property to the air? :)

Meanwhile, may be if anybody could help to repost and reprint the story in various media
http://irin2u.wordpress.com/2013/11/27/ ... n-ex-pats/
this would at least make others think properly and learn Arabic and the habits of the locals well before they venture here? Any other collective actions are welcome, I have paid the page to be promoted and sent the story to some newspapers.

User avatar
DJKeefy
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10743
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 776 times
Been thanked: 1794 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by DJKeefy » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:53 am

Maat wrote:
Meanwhile, may be if anybody could help to repost and reprint the story in various media
http://irin2u.wordpress.com/2013/11/27/ ... n-ex-pats/
this would at least make others think properly and learn Arabic and the habits of the locals well before they venture here? .
Or use a proper licenced Estate agency like us at http://www.luxor4flats.com/ where things are done properly, and unlike some, we dont charge commision or an agents fee.
Image

User avatar
Dusak
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 5874
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:29 pm
Location: LUXOR
Has thanked: 5895 times
Been thanked: 7327 times
Gender:
Thailand

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by Dusak » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:36 pm

I own ALL my land, 265 sq.mtrs. Yet I have an e-mail from a bent lawyer from Luxor clearly stating that the new buyer of the third floor apartment [his client] owns more of my land than I now do. This is of course not true. I have had my parers checked by three lawyers and a judge. All confirm that the land is mine. This lieing lawyer should be struck off for attempting to bait this new owner into starting court proceedings so he can carry on milking him dry. A friend recently complained to the police about him. They knew all about the many cases of complaint against him, even showed the file on him, but as they said, their hands are tied as Cairo states that he can carry on in practice. So you are just banging your head against the proverbial brick wall hoping that things will change.

As for translating needs, if any translator gets it wrong and creates a future problem due to a bad translation, then that translator is responsible in law. Hence his need to supply his ID card number to the documents. Mine are always sent through the school of translators here in Luxor.
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

A-Four
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3774
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:04 pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 1561 times
Been thanked: 1679 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by A-Four » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:24 pm

I only know one couple in LUXOR WB, that are still there who have gone through all the hell of buying, and we all know on here who that is, though to give credit, they have come through it all. Even to just accept that people you trusted, ended up trying to rob you, is painful enough, without even thinking of all the other problems.

I recently visited a friend in England, who years ago went through this whole process, a person who is no fool. She had a beautiful home in Luxor, but when the 'storm clouds' begun to build, she asked me, whether I thought she should leave or stay. My answer was immeadiate,.....go. She was able to sell her home for a reasonable price, but never regretted her time there.

My question would be to all those who have gone through the 'delights' of buying a property is,.........was it all worth it ?

User avatar
carrie
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 4268
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:46 am
Location: luxor
Has thanked: 2741 times
Been thanked: 5293 times
United Kingdom

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by carrie » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:41 pm

Yes lotusflower I am aware that often these deals involve rather a lot of money all the more reason to take time and make absoluely sure of what you are signing.
I also reiterate that these scams don't only happen to Europeans the Egyptians try it on with each other and not only on the west bank.
Perhaps this is something that the comity could raise at their next meeting, the impossibility of finding an honest lawyer who will work solely on your behalf and not be taking kick backs from the other side.
I was also under the impression that you could not own land on the west bank, you could own the building itself but not the land on which the building stood.

Keefy says that his agency is to be trusted and I believe him maybe before anyone buys they should contact him and get him and his lawyers to check things out.

Maat
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:07 am
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 10 times
United Kingdom

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by Maat » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:07 pm

carrie wrote: I was also under the impression that you could not own land on the west bank, you could own the building itself but not the land on which the building stood.
According to the law, if you do not own the land you can not enter what stands on it, the property itself. :cg

A-Four
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3774
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:04 pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 1561 times
Been thanked: 1679 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by A-Four » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:14 pm

carrie wrote:Keefy says that his agency is to be trusted and I believe him maybe before anyone buys they should contact him and get him and his lawyers to check things out.
Totally agree with you Carrie, but is it Keefy's job to tell some one that they are buying a property in a paddy field, like would an estate agent in Britain tell you that the house you like is infact on a flood plain. These things are determined through both your search and survey in the U.K., which to my understanding are none existant on Luxor W.B.

Though to square things up, I have never come across any one who has had a bad dealing through his agency.

User avatar
Glyphdoctor
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 7525
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:48 pm
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 2820 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by Glyphdoctor » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:24 pm

Dusak wrote:
As for translating needs, if any translator gets it wrong and creates a future problem due to a bad translation, then that translator is responsible in law. Hence his need to supply his ID card number to the documents. Mine are always sent through the school of translators here in Luxor.
Actually, I doubt that. Arabic is the language that courts will base any judgments on, even if there is a translation. And even translations produced by the government usually have a disclaimer of responsibility for the accuracy of the translation.

lotusflower
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:30 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland and Luxor
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 66 times
Gender:
Ireland

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by lotusflower » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:36 pm

One buys through an Estate Agency on on inspection only of the property in question....The Estate Agency is never familiar with the actual ownership or background history of the property and merely what has been conveyed to them by the person representing to be the actual owner.

User avatar
dsaxelby
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 425
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:31 pm
Has thanked: 1353 times
Been thanked: 491 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by dsaxelby » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:57 pm

A-Four wrote:
My question would be to all those who have gone through the 'delights' of buying a property is,.........was it all worth it ?

Oh yes ;)
It is what it is.

User avatar
DJKeefy
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10743
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 776 times
Been thanked: 1794 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by DJKeefy » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:04 pm

lotusflower wrote:One buys through an Estate Agency on on inspection only of the property in question....The Estate Agency is never familiar with the actual ownership or background history of the property and merely what has been conveyed to them by the person representing to be the actual owner.
Not entirely true for all estate agencies lotusflower, me and my business partner have lived here a very long time, so we know many of the owners and saw many of the properties been built, there is a few properties we refuse to advertise if its known to have problems. Regardless of this though, when someone is very interested in a property our lawyer checks all paperwork with the appropriate authorities, he is very thorough with is work, if a major problem exists on a property we wont allow the sale and the property will come off our website (we have only come across 2 since 2005) :)
Image

User avatar
Dusak
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 5874
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:29 pm
Location: LUXOR
Has thanked: 5895 times
Been thanked: 7327 times
Gender:
Thailand

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by Dusak » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:57 am

Glyphdoctor wrote:
Dusak wrote:
As for translating needs, if any translator gets it wrong and creates a future problem due to a bad translation, then that translator is responsible in law. Hence his need to supply his ID card number to the documents. Mine are always sent through the school of translators here in Luxor.
Actually, I doubt that. Arabic is the language that courts will base any judgments on, even if there is a translation. And even translations produced by the government usually have a disclaimer of responsibility for the accuracy of the translation.
Like most things in life, if someone in authority tell's you its XYorZ you tend to believe them.
A-Four wrote:I only know one couple in LUXOR WB, that are still there who have gone through all the hell of buying, and we all know on here who that is, though to give credit, they have come through it all. Even to just accept that people you trusted, ended up trying to rob you, is painful enough, without even thinking of all the other problems.

I recently visited a friend in England, who years ago went through this whole process, a person who is no fool. She had a beautiful home in Luxor, but when the 'storm clouds' begun to build, she asked me, whether I thought she should leave or stay. My answer was immeadiate,.....go. She was able to sell her home for a reasonable price, but never regretted her time there.

My question would be to all those who have gone through the 'delights' of buying a property is,.........was it all worth it ?
If I knew then what I know now, the answer regarding would I buy, the answer would be no. That statement has nothing to do with the current situation politically here in Egypt, but a re-enforcement of my strong beliefs that where property is concerned, you can't trust anyone, no matter their nationality. But buy I did and am happy with my lot. Or should that be plot?
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

User avatar
Hafiz
V.I.P
V.I.P
Posts: 1234
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 793 times
Been thanked: 725 times
Gender:
Australia

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by Hafiz » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:16 pm

Chocolate Eclair, I've found your website, which is slick, and found the content useful but am unclear about the following in your earlier post: 'Without any securities from the seller again walk away'. Grateful if you could elaborate.

Is it a fair interpretation that most property disputes involve European women?

Would it be true that not all European real estate agencies in Luxor are safe?

A-Four, have I understood you correctly? Are you saying that all but two couples you know who have bought WB property (both existing and building from scratch) have left and in most cases for property problems? I'm not holding you to exact numbers of friends but to how important property disputes are in giving up on Luxor.

I'm aware of problems with title and the bulldozing on the WB but is it the case that there is no certain way to to get a clear title and the valid building approvals over the structure to protect you from that?

Am I right that intimidation over property, and maybe other matters, is mainly confined to the WB ?

Am I right in assuming that legal problems and intimidation are more prevalent in the rural areas than in Ramla?

On long term rentals, are there significant problems about tenant rights and intimidation and do these tend to involve the same real estate agencies that cause problems with purchase? How widespread are major problems with long term rentals?
Last edited by Hafiz on Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
dsaxelby
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 425
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:31 pm
Has thanked: 1353 times
Been thanked: 491 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by dsaxelby » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:27 pm

The original estate agents I used have been transferred to another party, 6 months after my purchase I noticed my property was still for sale by 2 agents, Keefy immediately took down my particulars once notified of the sale. The other site did not, even after I went into their office and told them personally.

Apparently my property is still for sale, at a very inflated price :lol: by agents I have not instructed. Should I be worried :o
It is what it is.

User avatar
Dusak
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 5874
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:29 pm
Location: LUXOR
Has thanked: 5895 times
Been thanked: 7327 times
Gender:
Thailand

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by Dusak » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:12 am

Well, I'm not bumming up, sweet talking, creeping, or participating in sycophantic idealism. But if you want peace of mind, f*** the rest, sell/buy with the best and go with this agency. Over the last nine years I have had inquiry dealings with every one, and smelt the hidden rat first hand. :up :up :up
Life is your's to do with as you wish- do not let other's try to control it for you. Count Dusak- 1345.

Sdo
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 8:50 am
Location: Luxor
Has thanked: 174 times
Been thanked: 56 times
Egypt

Re: Luxor mafia's hidden source of prosperity

Post by Sdo » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:20 am

dsaxelby wrote:The original estate agents I used have been transferred to another party, 6 months after my purchase I noticed my property was still for sale by 2 agents, Keefy immediately took down my particulars once notified of the sale. The other site did not, even after I went into their office and told them personally.

Apparently my property is still for sale, at a very inflated price :lol: by agents I have not instructed. Should I be worried :o
It should be the previous owner/sellers responsibility to inform the other agents of the sale and to have it removed from their records.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
  • Military source: 'SCAF won't let Brotherhood seize power'
    by DJKeefy » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:39 am » in Politics and Religion
    1 Replies
    159 Views
    Last post by TonyC
    Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:59 am
  • Govt's butane reserve claims impossible, source says
    by DJKeefy » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:27 am » in Know Egypt
    0 Replies
    127 Views
    Last post by DJKeefy
    Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:27 am
  • Discover Fayoum’s hidden gem
    by DJKeefy » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:08 pm » in Know Egypt
    0 Replies
    115 Views
    Last post by DJKeefy
    Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:08 pm
  • All aboard....'Hidden Restaurants.
    by Who2 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:47 pm » in Kitchen Corner
    2 Replies
    182 Views
    Last post by carrie
    Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:34 am
  • Hidden Discovered Photographer.
    by Hafiz » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:29 pm » in Music - Movies - Entertainment
    0 Replies
    164 Views
    Last post by Hafiz
    Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:29 pm