War in Syria - Egypt Morally and Practically Involved

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War in Syria - Egypt Morally and Practically Involved

Post by Hafiz »

War.

Well maybe a Syria war is inevitable and well overdue. Leaving it for another few years/next outrage might make it worse for poor civilians and ‘resolution’ at a later time even more bloody. Others say, leave it and it will improve but when in the last century did things ever improve in Syria. Thousands of western soldiers died to give it freedom in 2 wars and look what has happened.

Some things are certain –it was a minor hit of a small weapon in a dirty war (1500 killed with chemicals out of 500,000), that will solve little, Assad’s overall military capacity (Russian, Iranian and Lebanese) is undiminished but the hit will distract attention from Trump’s troubles.

What gets lost is the reality. Since 2011 Assad has launched 64 or 65 (probably more although the White House says 50) gas attacks many of them on civilians. In Assad’s 2013 gassing 800 were killed and nothing happened. However the press imagine there were only 2 gassings or so. http://ftp.jordantimes.com/opinion/omar ... nger-syria. Therefore those who support him such as Egypt (which used its UN vote to oppose sanctions), Russia, Lebanon (that has over 30,000 citizens fighting for Assad) and Iran should be harshly judged which is easy because they were already held in contempt.

There is hypocrisy all over the Syria Issue. For example Obama in 2013 considered a military strike in response to the worst ever gassing. The UK Parliament, led by the undivine Milliband, defeated the UK Government on this matter and nothing happened. Putin then offered Obama a deal - he would supervise the removal of all chemicals from Syria. Putin declared it a success except that both Putin and Assad had lied and nothing or little was removed or quickly replaced.

Through all this and other wars/disputes in the region the local countries did nothing or less than nothing except to exploit trouble to their advantage. For example Egypt opposes sanctions against Syria, took no part in the Security Council force to remove Gadhafi (Jordan, Qatar and the UAE did whilst Egypt and Russia support the non-UN government rebels) yet it shares a border with that country and has the worlds greatest/6th largest army. It has contributed nothing to previous multinational forces in Lebanon, nothing to the stabilization force in Sudan and nothing more recently to protect Iraq from ISIS but Turkey, Jordan and Morocco did. Its contribution to the 1st Iraqi war was laughable and its so-called current contribution to the Yemen war can’t be forensically identified. Is there no threat that will mobilize the Egyptian Army from its slumber? It has also contributed not one penny in aid to any stabilization/rebuilding program in the region over 7 decades. It’s a taker.

What also gets forgotten is that Syria has assassinated 2 Lebanese Prime Ministers to control politics in Lebanon and are a puppet of Iran. Its track record over generations is nasty.

What also gets ignored is that Egypt has developed, used and disseminate weapons of mass destruction in the region and was one of the first and worst to use illegal gasses on civilians.

Egypt knows a deal about gassing civilians it did lots of it in Yemen in the 60’s – clearly a war crime and probably approved by the beloved Mubarak who was then head of the air force and by Nasser. They dropped the canisters on villages and all agree there was little/no intelligence/planning to ensure minimum deaths from innocent victims. Numbers killed/injured are unclear but probably in the thousands. Two Saudi sites were also and deliberately bombed by Egypt with chemical weapons (very odd).

In the Yemeni war the Egyptian army showed its strongest qualities – callousness and shocking incompetence. There was also substantial fraud and stealing by the eternally victorious officer class from the impoverished Yemeni’s. The Russians helped them in all these atrocities but the Egyptian army failed/collapsed – as it always does. (Its enemy in this disaster was Saudi, Yemen and Jordan and Nasser’s objective was a communist government in Yemen). Its unclear, because its not well studied as the Egyptians prohibit study, but the Syrians may also have been involved in this mess – maybe with gassing. http://www.nti.org/media/pdfs/egypt_che ... 1316466791

Nasser absolutely denied use of chemical weapons in Yemen but as usual he lied. The Red Cross reports were to him lies and Egypt ignored all international criticism and censored al Ahram to create the ‘truth’. Everyone knew what they were doing.

All of this was illegal. One view is that Egypt has had two heads of state who were unconvicted war criminals. (Mubarak was head of that part of the airforce dropping the chemicals).

Its gets worse. Although most of the Yemeni gas was supplied by Russia, Egypt went on to develop its own secret gas and chemical weapons program in a factory in Cairo and sold the dirty stuff to its close friend Syria. In this they were probably assisted by Nazi War criminals who were given refuge by Nasser whilst on the run but this is another story. It is absolutely clear that hundreds of scientists/technicians – both Nazi and not – helped Nasser build missiles (including ones to hold uranium but not a bomb) and produce chemical and biological weapons. Maybe 350 Austrians were also employed in similar roles – many Nazi, as many Austrians were. Nasser liked Nazi’s a lot and both wanted to obliterate Israel.

In the 70’s Egypt went on to manufacture Sarin and worse at the military owned but concealed Abu-Za’abal Chemical Company. The army also owned the El-Nasr Pharmaceutical Chemicals Company and the Adwia Egyptian Chemicals and Pharmaceuticals Company, and more, that are producing these killing technologies. A number were located in 6th October so if you’re visiting there – take a gas mask and avoid windy days.

Under Sisi relations with Syria have become significantly closer. Its got soldiers there (numbers unclear but unlikely to be 1,000) and Egyptian businessmen have been there recently at a trade conference/fair in Damascus sponsored by both governments. There have been multiple meetings with the top dog on Egyptian State Security going to Syria and an Assad relative in Cairo. Its near certain that weapons etc are flowing.

Sisi’s support for Syria comes at a price he has been prepared for Egypt to pay. The Saudi paymasters were furious 2 years ago about Sisi’s support for Syria, in the UN and otherwise. The Saudi’s tried to pull Egypt into line by cutting the free/cheap oil for 6/12 months. It didn’t work. His American friends also don’t like the Syrian link one bit but his new Russian taskmasters love him for supporting Syrian evil.

Egypt voted on the Security Council to oppose sanctions against Syria mainly because Sisi has sympathy for the appalling Syrian Army and he hates the notion of democratic rejection of a dictatorship.

Cairo never signed the international Convention on Chemical Weapons (along with only Israel, North Korea and Sudan) but sits on the Security Council, proclaims human rights and demands UN money and other UN benefits but won’t observe any UN obligations. https://warisboring.com/lessons-from-eg ... -in-yemen/

In the 80’s it is clear that Egypt helped develop Saddam’s chemical weapons used against his people. They supplied constituents and technical training. (The Saddam Egyptian contacts are more than you think. When 22 years Saddam tried to murder someone in Iraq and fled to Cairo where he knew and was protected by Nasser. https://www.newsmax.com/pre-2008/the-na ... id/674361/

Saddam killed at least 20,000 many civilians with secret (and denied) Egyptian help using gas.

It is also near certain that Egypt has helped Sudan to develop weapons of mass destruction – including gas – and Egypt and holds large reserves of chemical and biological weapons itself. The Sudanese gassing of civilians is likely on a much larger scale than Syria but difficult to confirm because of remoteness and exclusion of observers.

In 1997 the Islamic full sharia military dictatorship in Sudan got assistance from Russia and Egypt on putting the chemicals into missiles and artillery shells. https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/worl ... kafuri.htm

In 1998 Bill Clinton bombed the military chemical factory on the outskirts of Khartoum at a time when Sudan was giving protection to Osama bin Laden. https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes ... ck-us.html

The track goes cold at this point

In 2016 Amnesty International claimed Sudan did 30 separate attacks on civilians with chemical weapons. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/ ... -revealed/ This data is somewhat contested because the areas affected are very remote. If true it suggests that many more chemical attacks have been committed over a longer period and that Sudan holds the world record in this.

The Libyan poison gas is hard to track, I suspect that Egypt was involved because Qadaffi was throwing cash around. Its now a bit academic because that lunatic allegedly destroyed his stores of WMD in 2004 or 2005 under, I think, UK and/or international supervision.

In the last few years Egypt has been negligent/in collaboration with the dissemination of weapons of mass destruction, probably to Syria, including poison gas. The North Korean embassy in Cairo sold this stuff to pretty much any animal with money. The UN is preparing a report on this but money changed hands, morals were put aside and the Egyptian government was worse than appalling – or maybe it was just itself. It is possible that the gasses/chemicals which have killed in Syria came via Cairo and with the full knowledge of the Egyptian Security Service. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/worl ... aling.html

The involvement of Egyptian and notorious Lebanese banks in this is likely. The failure of the Central Bank of Egypt to enforce UN sanctions on money movements is exactly what you would expect.

It is almost certain that four Egyptian shipping companies have been willingly used to evade UN sanctions and ship arms to Syria in the past few years. It is highly likely that these activities are well known to, and possibly supported by, the Egyptian Army and Security Services. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... etwork.pdf

Its certain that the large ship of North Korean weapons stopped in the Red Sea in August 2016 was intended for Egypt (with possible transshipment to Syria) – in breach of international law – but who in Egypt ever cared about international law. http://www.rstreet.org/2017/10/05/north ... m-at-work/ No one has been prosecuted for this – but the company involved/front man was probably owned/controlled by the army.

It is clear that North Korea has publically and privately supported in practical ways (including chemical weapons) the Assad family over many decades and more than likely that they have actual troops/military advisors there now. https://thediplomat.com/2018/02/north-k ... onnection/ a technical/professional diplomatic journal. It is reasonably clear that North Korea was central to Syria’s attempt to build a nuclear bomb/reactor destroyed by Israel in 2007. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012 ... ent-strike They are probably building another near the Lebanese border with North Korean and maybe Iranian/Russian help. http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Syria- ... ays-547102

In the last few days Shoukry, Egyptian FM, phoned the US Secretary of State rejecting the use of ‘prohibited weapons’. This ignores Egypt’s role in making them available to Syria, Iraq, Sudan and probably Libya, closed its eyes to North Korea in Cairo and remains almost alone in the world in not signing the treaty. As ever its just wind because Egypt has not used its army/aid program to solve any problems in the region and left it to others to do the work/pay the bills.

The phone call was a publicity stunt pumped by Egypt into all the ME media but not mentioned by the Department of State. No non Middle East newspaper mentions it nor do the sensible ones in the region who know not to trust that Minister.
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... ria-w.aspx

Its interesting that in Iraq, Sudan, Syria and Egypt/Yemen the chemical weapons were not primarily used against armies/military groupings (as in WW1) but generally against defenseless civilians. This makes the crime worse because these people are unprepared/lack masks and training. Even the barbaric Japanese in China used chemical weapons only against soldiers (bit unclear) so the worst behavior in of the world is restricted to Muslims in the Middle East mainly killing their own people or simple civilians – I wonder why the leadership in the ME is so perverse.

Neither al Azhar (maybe) nor the Coptic Pope bother to mention atrocities in Sudan or Syria. Al Azhar did denounce the American attacks on Syria. You sometimes wonder whether general morality in Egypt or the region is perverse not just the political/military leaders.

Please correct me if I’m wrong – Egypt has not contributed to peace in the region and has done a lot to make things worse.

A website on Syria (anti-Assad) which is meticulous, cautious and evidence-based – something not found with the local media or political leadership. https://syrianarchive.org/en



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Re: War in Syria - Egypt Morally and Practically Involved

Post by newcastle »

Apparently. Egypt, which is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty , won't sign the Chemical Weapons Convention until Israel signs the NNT and gets rid of its (alleged) nuclear arsenal.

Fair enough.

But I know where I'd put my money in a conflict between Egypt's (alleged) gas weaponry and Israel's (alleged) 100 plus nuclear bombs. :lol:

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Re: War in Syria - Egypt Morally and Practically Involved

Post by Major Thom »

I think they follow like sheep in a lot of cases, who knows what will happen if there is another uprising. Gradually they are building up arms with the money from foreign aid, instead of aiding poverty and oppression.

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Re: War in Syria - Egypt Morally and Practically Involved

Post by carrie »

That's your answer then MT aid oppression and poverty?

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Re: War in Syria - Egypt Morally and Practically Involved

Post by Major Thom »

Well lets put it this way Carrie, the people are not getting much aid, so wheres the aid going to? Just my opinion, after seeing it happening before we left. A good government would keep caps on prices until the economy recovers. We knew a family with 4 children, they all got food aid, then the aid was cut in half and eventually cut to 2 children. All were of school age. I suppose you don't see poverty then Carrie, if you did you will know its widespread. That's not accusing you of anything but asking if you believe that more could be done for the local people to help them, with tourist money being short on the ground. And where is all the millions of Aid Dollars going every year. All I read about is museums, Government places and other buildings that do nothing for local people, apart from provide low paid jobs. I can also understand why many business's are not licensed, have you seen the 1000's they have to pay?

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Re: War in Syria - Egypt Morally and Practically Involved

Post by carrie »

Quite agree with you MT and if you had said that the government should be alleviating poverty and oppression and not aiding it then I wouldn't have argued.
Who on earth would want to aid it?

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Re: War in Syria - Egypt Morally and Practically Involved

Post by Major Thom »

I always think that poverty should be aided Carrie, but oppression is like a cancer, once started it bites into the whole fabric of a Country. Like ourselves you know how prices have risen, for us its not so bad because of the exchange rate, and getting proper pensions that give us enough to live on, but must be terrible for those with young families who get very little help. I wonder if the pension or aid relief has doubled since the frequent price rises took hold?

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Re: War in Syria - Egypt Morally and Practically Involved

Post by newcastle »

Major Thom wrote:I always think that poverty should be aided Carrie, but oppression is like a cancer, once started it bites into the whole fabric of a Country. Like ourselves you know how prices have risen, for us its not so bad because of the exchange rate, and getting proper pensions that give us enough to live on, but must be terrible for those with young families who get very little help. I wonder if the pension or aid relief has doubled since the frequent price rises took hold?
You might have confused Carrie less by substituting "alleviated" for "aided" :ct

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