Bomb explosion in Manchester

[Major Thom]

There has been a bomb explosion at the Manchester Arena, it's been reported 19 people have been killed and up to 59 injured. Condolences to those that lost loved ones, get well soon to the injured, and well done the emergency services that managed to lock down the City Centre in 15 mins.

[Horus]

We are being told it was a suicide bomber and the death toll has risen to 22 and many more injured, it was an event frequented by many children.

[Horus]

There has been another incident involving armed police in the Arnedale Center in Manchester

[Major Thom]

Have they found out who has done it yet Horus? we are in the Troodos having a couple of days walking

[Horus]

Yes, some scumbag named Salman Abedi recently back from Libya

[Bombay]

The Home Secretary has just said the bomber was known to the security services well what a surprise so far all the attackers in Europe have been known.
When are they going to be stopped he just arrived from Libya a place know for its beaches Roman antiquities and peaceful stable society.

[Horus]

Just another adherent of radical Islam who paid us back for giving sanctuary to his parents by blowing up our children and teenagers. Is it any wonder that better control of immigration featured so highly in the Brexit vote and mad Merkels plan to swamp Europe with more potential terrorists. We now have a security threat level at ‘Critical’ the highest level we have, which implies another imminent attack somewhere else in the country. Soon there will be around 4000 armed troops on the streets assisting our police force and freeing up their resources, all this as the result of a twisted version of a religion that wants to turn our country into a mirror image of the hell hole they fled from.

[newcastle]

There's no way our security forces can monitor, 24/7, all persons who may be "of interest" in connection with possible terrorism.

Nor can we arrest and incarcerate people on the suspicion that they may have evil intent, without real evidence, unless we want to create a country like - dare I say - Egypt. We already proscribe movement, to and from certain countries, where we have substantive reason to believe an offence may be committed.

Many thousands of people travel every month to and from countries which might be considered 'hotbeds' of radicalisation. Most are entirely innocent of any terrorist leanings. I suspect that all are looked at by our security forces but, without any ancillary indication of potential threat, most are treated as "innocent until proved guilty". Some, a very few, will be put on a watch list. Others will end up as "persons of interest".

The fact of the matter is that terrorism atrocities, such as Manchester, will continue, whatever we do in terms of homeland security, until ISIS and its ideology is defeated...a process which is likely to take many years.

[Horus]

whatever we do in terms of homeland security, until ISIS and its ideology is defeated...a process which is likely to take many years.

If ever, there is something in the mindset of those who follow these warped religious teachings and it will only disappear with their own deaths and that of all the others that they have perverted and that could take many generations.

[HEPZIBAH]

Perhaps if funding had been put in to the police force, instead of what seems in some areas a gradual erosion of the service, we might be in a better place. 'Plod' of yesteryear may not have looked streamline and efficient but he was a face in neighbourhoods and often had a trusted ear to the ground. Now, as if by magic, there is money to put 'troops on the streets'. Surprised we have enough of them left to do any good!

[newcastle]

@ Horus

In fact it would require physical elimination over all future generations because, without tackling the root causes that fuel this ideology, it will have no end. Each future generation will raise its proportion of terrorists.....ad infinitum.

I would like to recommend some articles by John Graham which give an insight into what ISIS is all about, why ostensibly sane young men (and some women) flock to its banner, and how we might tackle, and ultimately defeat it.

DEFEATING ISIS :

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-grah ... 17828.html

WHO JOINS ISIS AND WHY?

http://www.johngraham.org/blog/who-joins-isis-and-why

WHAT DRIVES ISIS?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-grah ... 78314.html

[Bombay]

There's no way our security forces can monitor, 24/7, all persons who may be "of interest" in connection with possible terrorism.

Nor can we arrest and incarcerate people on the suspicion that they may have evil intent, without real evidence, unless we want to create a country like - dare I say - Egypt. We already proscribe movement, to and from certain countries, where we have substantive reason to believe an offence may be committed.

Many thousands of people travel every month to and from countries which might be considered 'hotbeds' of radicalisation. Most are entirely innocent of any terrorist leanings. I suspect that all are looked at by our security forces but, without any ancillary indication of potential threat, most are treated as "innocent until proved guilty". Some, a very few, will be put on a watch list. Others will end up as "persons of interest".

The fact of the matter is that terrorism atrocities, such as Manchester, will continue, whatever we do in terms of homeland security, until ISIS and its ideology is defeated...a process which is likely to take many years.

Give it a go

[newcastle]

Perhaps if funding had been put in to the police force, instead of what seems in some areas a gradual erosion of the service, we might be in a better place. 'Plod' of yesteryear may not have looked streamline and efficient but he was a face in neighbourhoods and often had a trusted ear to the ground. Now, as if by magic, there is money to put 'troops on the streets'. Surprised we have enough of them left to do any good!

The rationale is that, by using troops to guard key sites, it will free up the police to do more in the way of "investigative" operations might enable them to intercept, or lessen the likelihood of, a further successful attack. The use of troops who might otherwise be sitting in barracks or tramping around Salisbury Plain on "exercises" seems an excellent and cost-effective use of resources.

I doubt it will weaken, in any significant way, our nation's defenses against foreign enemies!

I doubt increased security will avoid a further terrorist attack....but it should reduce the chances.

[newcastle]

There's no way our security forces can monitor, 24/7, all persons who may be "of interest" in connection with possible terrorism.

Nor can we arrest and incarcerate people on the suspicion that they may have evil intent, without real evidence, unless we want to create a country like - dare I say - Egypt. We already proscribe movement, to and from certain countries, where we have substantive reason to believe an offence may be committed.

Many thousands of people travel every month to and from countries which might be considered 'hotbeds' of radicalisation. Most are entirely innocent of any terrorist leanings. I suspect that all are looked at by our security forces but, without any ancillary indication of potential threat, most are treated as "innocent until proved guilty". Some, a very few, will be put on a watch list. Others will end up as "persons of interest".

The fact of the matter is that terrorism atrocities, such as Manchester, will continue, whatever we do in terms of homeland security, until ISIS and its ideology is defeated...a process which is likely to take many years.

Give it a go

No thanks. Apart from being totally impracticable, as a cure it would be worse than the problem. In fact it would exacerbate the problem by creating even more disenchanted muslims - IMHO. Creating a draconian divided society plays right into ISIS's hands.

[Horus]

So how else would you deal with it? we can either just sit back and allow these atrocities to happen or we can take some draconian action and start to tackle the problem. Remove passports from anyone known to have associated with jihadist groups either physically or over the internet, imprison anyone returning from abroad who has been involved in fighting for any militant group, deport anyone who has been given asylum or citizenship if they are involved in or have association with these groups or are known sympathisers, close all mosques that have preached militancy or have adherents who frequent them. Make it clear that any immigrant who is found to be involved in any terrorist activity will also have their family and dependants removed as part of the penalty. Now I know that you will say that a lot of this is unfair and cannot be implemented for various reasons, but I would say that unless we make a start somewhere then we will never know.

[newcastle]

So how else would you deal with it? we can either just sit back and allow these atrocities to happen or we can take some draconian action and start to tackle the problem. Remove passports from anyone known to have associated with jihadist groups either physically or over the internet, imprison anyone returning from abroad who has been involved in fighting for any militant group, deport anyone who has been given asylum or citizenship if they are involved in or have association with these groups or are known sympathisers, close all mosques that have preached militancy or have adherents who frequent them. Make it clear that any immigrant who is found to be involved in any terrorist activity will also have their family and dependants removed as part of the penalty. Now I know that you will say that a lot of this is unfair and cannot be implemented for various reasons, but I would say that unless we make a start somewhere then we will never know.

Theresa May herself, when Home Secretary, espoused some of these ideas back in 2015.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Islam.html

That they have not, to any significant degree, been implemented probably reflects the difficulty in balancing any action against our fundamental principles....and the need to avoid clogging the legal system with cases which would ultimately fail the (quite rightly) stringent requirements of proof.

Closing mosques simply because terrorist sympathisers attended them, or deporting the (otherwise innocent) families of such might have gone down well in Nazi Germany, but is completely contrary to British values.

We don't need a knee-jerk reaction to atrocities but rather more resources put at the disposal of the security forces coupled with international action to tackle the problem at its source...i.e. a joined-up response to the mayhem in the Middle East. We had a hand in creating the disaster, and the scenario which has allowed ISIS to prosper - it behoves us to work more urgently with other international actors to resolve it.

[Horus]

Please not the old Chestnut if us being responsible for ISIS, they were killing and bombing us well before we had any involvement in their countries, it is the sick teachings of a backward religion that still contains exhortations to kill the kufar wherever you may find him if he does not submit to Islam that forms part of their holy book. You may be happy to see innocent teenagers and children killed in their own country and wring your hands that nothing can be done, but many more do not share your opinions. You often quote the law and the legal system, so what about those children’s rights not to be murdered in the name of some religion that many have probably never heard of and by the children of parents who own were given the largess of this country and shelter in their time of need. Too much emphasis is given to minority rights while successive governments have fostered huge numbers of people upon us that have nothing in common with our own culture and who will never assimilate. The sooner we get rid of this ‘Human Rights’ act that the lefty luvvies shelter behind and use to destroy the rights of the many in the interest of the few, the better it will be. Typical was todays spokesman for the Manchester Islamic Centre whining about an increase in abuse towards Muslims after the bombing, but no mention of the atrocity itself. The same when hundreds of people were carrying bunches of flowers to lay at the scene of the attack, there was a noticeable dearth of certain ethnic groups showing any respect or remorse. The latest is that his (the bomber) younger brother has been arrested in Tripoli, so I suppose we should send him some new cloths to travel back in and sort him out a council house ready for his return, after all he has rights.

[newcastle]

You may be happy to see innocent teenagers and children killed

No I don't....and I deeply resent that comment.

.... todays spokesman for the Manchester Islamic Centre whining about an increase in abuse towards Muslims after the bombing, but no mention of the atrocity itself.

You obviously weren't listening.

Your islamophobic rant is exactly the kind of reaction ISIS and its adherents are hoping to hear.

[Horus]

Your islamophobic rant is exactly the kind of reaction ISIS and its adherents are hoping to hear.

And your typical apologist attitude towards these people and their vile ways are also typical of the reaction we expect from those that would put their rights above the people being murdered.
And I am also in the deeply offended bracket of which you don’t have a monopoly. Just because you choose to live amongst Islamic people in one of the most Christian hating countries in the world and accept their mockery of human rights and freedoms whilst telling me we must respect those of terrorists in mine I find laughable, do not expect me to be in awe of them as you appear to be. Your ‘islamophobic’ repost is typical of those that would shut up everyone else up for voicing an opinion contrary to your own, it is akin to playing the racist card, but of course you knew that. How exactly is it islamophobic to say that they (the bombers) follow a corrupt version of their religion (Islam) and that their holy book (the Koran) contains archaic references to the killing of none believers? Or are you also an apologist for that book as well? It is an indisputable fact that these people base their warped and murderous views on the hadiths contained within it, plus the preachings in some UK mosques, it has gone on unfettered for years. And maybe it is time you faced up to the facts of most of the worlds current terrorist acts are committed by adherents of Islam regardless of how corrupt that version is, it is still Islam and that is the faith they are promoting/avenging, so can we please stop trying to support your argument by using such ridiculous throw away comments, it is the past practice of refusing to address the situation and throwing out words like ‘racist’ and ‘islamophobic’ at anyone with an opinion on the problem that has led us to the situation we find ourselves in today, lets not confront the issues, everything is rosy in the garden. I did see the full interview, but I doubt that you did, perhaps you saw the second one in which many people from the mosques and churches got together to condemn the atrocity and it was something I welcomed, although it looked more like an act of self preservation against what they knew was and would become a severe reaction to people from their own community killing children.

[newcastle]

I suggest you have another look at the speech to which you refer :

phpBB [video]

As to the suggestion that muslims in Manchester are unmoved by the atrocity :

Manchester bombing: Muslims raise thousands of pounds for victims after terror attack

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 52256.html


Manchester Arena bombing: Muslim taxi drivers give free lifts and help victims after terror attack
While some online seek to exploit killings to spread fear and prejudice, people directly affected by massacre share experience of Muslims’ support and generosity in face of chaos.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 51306.html

You are woefully ignorant about the origins of ISIS which only gained traction after the US/UK led war on Iraq.

Your original rant did not distinguish between muslim terrorists and muslims generally...and for this reason is correctly described at islamophobic. Your attempt to tar 1.5 billion muslims worldwide with the actions of a minute percentage , and the suggestion that the vast majority have any truck with the bizarre ideology of ISIS, is absurd.

I won't dignify the rest of your ad hominem slurs with a response.