Blair and Bush to be tried over Iraq

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Blair and Bush to be tried over Iraq

Post by Bombay »

Tony Blair and George W Bush should be taken to the International Criminal Court in The Hague over the Iraq war, Archbishop Desmond Tutu has said.

Writing in the UK's Observer newspaper, he accused the former leaders of lying about weapons of mass destruction.

The Iraq military campaign had made the world more unstable "than any other conflict in history", he said.

Mr Blair responded by saying "this is the same argument we have had many times with nothing new to say".


'Playground bullies'

Earlier this week, Archbishop Tutu, a veteran peace campaigner who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1984 in recognition of his campaign against apartheid, pulled out of a leadership summit in Johannesburg because he refused to share a platform with Mr Blair.

The former Archbishop of Cape Town said the US- and UK-led action launched against Saddam's regime in 2003 had brought about conditions for the civil war in Syria and a possible Middle East conflict involving Iran.

"The then leaders of the United States [Mr Bush] and Great Britain [Mr Blair] fabricated the grounds to behave like playground bullies and drive us further apart. They have driven us to the edge of a precipice where we now stand - with the spectre of Syria and Iran before us," he said.

He added: "The question is not whether Saddam Hussein was good or bad or how many of his people he massacred. The point is that Mr Bush and Mr Blair should not have allowed themselves to stoop to his immoral level."

Archbishop Tutu said the death toll as a result of military action in Iraq since 2003 was grounds for Mr Blair and Mr Bush to be tried in The Hague.

But he said different standards appeared to be applied to Western leaders.

He said: "On these grounds, alone, in a consistent world, those responsible should be treading the same path as some of their African and Asian peers who have been made to answer for their actions in The Hague."

In response to Sunday's article, Mr Blair issued a strongly worded defence of his decisions.

He said: "To repeat the old canard that we lied about the intelligence [on weapons of mass destruction] is completely wrong as every single independent analysis of the evidence has shown.


'Chemical weapons'

"And to say that the fact that Saddam massacred hundreds of thousands of his citizens is irrelevant to the morality of removing him is bizarre.

"We have just had the memorials both of the Halabja massacre, where thousands of people were murdered in one day by Saddam's use of chemical weapons, and that of the Iran-Iraq war where casualties numbered up to a million, including many killed by chemical weapons.

"In addition, his slaughter of his political opponents, the treatment of the Marsh Arabs and the systematic torture of his people make the case for removing him morally strong. But the basis of action was as stated at the time."

He added: "In short this is the same argument we have had many times with nothing new to say. But surely in a healthy democracy people can agree to disagree.

"I would also point out that despite the problems, Iraq today has an economy three times or more in size, with child mortality rate cut by a third of what it was. And with investment hugely increased in places like Basra."

Human rights lawyer Sir Geoffrey Bindman told BBC Radio 4 the Iraq war was an illegal aggressive war.

He said a war crimes trial "should be and could be held on the basis a crime of aggression has been committed and the crime of aggression was starting the war.

"It's now almost certain that the war was illegal because it breached the UN Charter provisions which say that all member of the United Nations must refrain from the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state."

Former Lord Chancellor Lord Falconer said he disagreed with Desmond Tutu and Sir Geoffrey.

"The use of force is allowed among other reasons when the United Nations authorises it, and the United Nations authorised it by resolution 1441.

"The dispute between Geoffrey and myself would be whether or not resolution 1441 did or did not authorise war and we say that it did.

"Even that disagreement doesn't give rise to the possibility of war crimes, the world has very impressively over the last two decades come together and identified what they mean by war crimes; genocide, ethnic cleansing, torture and in a variety of ways brought people to trial for that"

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-19454562


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Re: Blair and Bush to be tried over Iraq

Post by Horus »

The Chilcot report is to be released later today after taking many years to compile, of course Tony Blair will already be aware of what it contains as he will have been shown anything in which he is criticised several months before, therefore he has had plenty of time to get all his answers ready.
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Re: Blair and Bush to be tried over Iraq

Post by carrie »

"I would also point out that despite the problems, Iraq today has an economy three times or more in size, with child mortality rate cut by a third of what it was. And with investment hugely increased in places like Basra."
Glad to hear that Mr. B Liar is so pleased with the state of affairs in Iraq. The whole place is in fact a catastrophe. The latest bombings there are just another demonstration of this. The rise of Da'esh can be traced back to his disastrous war there, I hope he sleeps well.
I look forward to reading the much delayed Chilcott report.
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Re: Blair and Bush to be tried over Iraq

Post by Bombay »

Blair still says the Worlds a better place than it would be if they had not invaded Iraq. What frigging World is he talking about?
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Re: Blair and Bush to be tried over Iraq

Post by carrie »

His world where he earns millions going round lecturing, was appointed Middle East Peace envoy (what a laugh) yes Mr. Blair's world is hunky dorey.
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Re: Blair and Bush to be tried over Iraq

Post by Hafiz »

Aggression or an aggressive war is not yet a war crime. Might become one but only for future wars.

Before the deluge begins on this topic there are two things the report does not find. That Blair lied. That the politicians contaminated the bureaucratic/security advice. Both these have been major claims from the left for over a decade. Will any of them now retract.

The left in this country are now drawing a straight line between the war and everything that has subsequently happened not only in Iraq but the whole middle east. If only historical causation was so simple. A single cause for all that follows.

What I find interesting in all this is that few of the checks and balances worked and everyone got caught up in the momentum. The security services never doubted their info, the bureaucrats never voiced caution, the Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, went missing in action on advice on the legality of war, the cabinet never demanded a full debate, the Parliament was supine, the military never told the government they did not have the men and machines to fight a war (insufficient helicopters, ill equipped armored vehicles and insufficient troops). The media weren't as suspicious as they might have been. Not a liberal democracy working well because all those others are designed to distribute power and influence so that no one man or a heated moment wins the day. For example how could a sane cabinet agree to a war when there was no plan for what would happen after? Did the military ever have a plan for stabilizing the country?

A cul de sac for those with 10 minutes. Iraqi Curve ball was one of the major sources of western intelligence. He was held and rewarded by the Germans, no one else was allowed to quiz him, he claimed Sadam's son as his closest friend and gave detailed info about mobile chem weapon labs. He turned out later to have always been an alcholoc and mythomaniac. Google curve ball.

The Australian PM responsible for entering the war made an interesting point on TV this evening. He argued that any person examining a decision 13 years later faces the problem of avoiding contamination of his judgements from information, now available, but which was not available at the time. In this case what we know now is not just a variation of what was known at the time but 180 degrees from what was believed at the time. When the subsequent reality is so different from what was once believed the problem of putting yourself in the shoes of the original decision maker can be quite hard. The historians in a few decades time will sort it out.
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Re: Blair and Bush to be tried over Iraq

Post by newcastle »

Spot on Hafiz!

But,....you know....human nature being what it is we have to find "someone" responsible....guilty in the court of public opinion.

Blair was tried & convicted by the media years ago. There are far more "guilty" targets across the pond.
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Re: Blair and Bush to be tried over Iraq

Post by Bombay »

Would not matter if it was a war crime or not iirc the USA has not signed up to this.
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