The EU referendum

[HEPZIBAH]

This has come my way elsewhere on the internet. It seems there is a precedence for referendums to be repeated or ignored completely. I don't know the original source for this information.

[Bombay]

But now they have ********-ed everything up they will need to undo it and parliament could vote on it but they will be to frighted about loosing their seats to do that so another with clear minimums should be done.

I think they will wait until everyone is ****** off even more and hold an election or a vote on what the deal is with Europe to leave or stay.

[newcastle]

But now they have ********-ed everything up they will need to undo it and parliament could vote on it but they will be to frighted about loosing their seats to do that so another with clear minimums should be done.

I think they will wait until everyone is ****** off even more and hold an election or a vote on what the deal is with Europe to leave or stay.

That would be entirely logical...and sensible...and democratic...

Which is why it's unlikely to happen.....

Spoiler

But I DO HOPE it happens....if only to watch the fun! Can you imagine?

[Bombay]

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/get ... V0%2f%2fEN

European Parliament calls for urgent triggering of Article 50
Posted at
11:55
The European Parliament is meeting tomorrow for an emergency plenary session to discuss and vote on a resolution on the UK referendum. This is the draft text of the resolution, which in practice, establishes the official position of the Parliament towards Brexit.

Most interestingly, the Parliament is urging David Cameron to trigger Article 50 immediately.

It "warns that to prevent damaging uncertainty for everyone and in order to protect the Union’s integrity, the notification stipulated in Article 50 TEU must take place immediately; consequently asks the UK Prime Minister to notify the outcome of the referendum to the European Council of 28/29June; this notification will launch the withdrawal procedure."

The resolution also reminds parties "that the consent of the European Parliament is required under the Treaties; the European Parliament must be fully involved at all stages of the various procedures concerning the withdrawal agreement and any future relationship".

In other words, in theory at least, the European Parliament has the power to veto any new deal between the UK and EU

[newcastle]

I trust Cameron will tell them to get stuffed......diplomatically of course.

My newsfeed is awash this morning with Brexit friends apoplectic at the possibilty of the decision being referred to another referendum! Shrieks of "foul!"...."unfair!!"....."undemocratic!!!".

Can it be they're worried that a second vote might go the other way?

Well...that wouldn't be democratic .....would it...

[Bombay]

It's not just the EU wanting to move quicker apparently there is a suspected plot to stop the decision so some Tories want DC to get out quickly.

I think they should bring back John Major!

[BENNU]

One of the examples in Hepzibah's post:

Denmark 1992 Maastricht Treaty 51,7 'no' votes, made to vote again.


After 50,7 no votes, we were presented with a national compromise to the Maastricht treaty in Edinburgh 1993, to which 56,7 voted yes.

[Mad Dilys]

I'm obviously not talking about any members of our forum when I say "There are lies, damn lies and statistics!"

By the way, if a democracy is rule by elected representatives making decisions, is a referendum where the individuals in the population vote en masse, democratic?

[Bombay]

On the currency markets sterling's slide against the dollar has intensified - it's now down more than 3% at £1.3221 - a new 31-year low, below even Friday's low.

Against the euro the pound is at its lowest since March 2014 at 83.41p.

[newcastle]

I'm obviously not talking about any members of our forum when I say "There are lies, damn lies and statistics!"

By the way, if a democracy is rule by elected representatives making decisions, is a referendum where the individuals in the population vote en masse, democratic?

Yes...of course it is....but totally unworkable with an electorate of 40 million plus

That's why we have elected MPs....to make democracy workable.

There are occasionally questions...usually to do with constitutional issues....where a referendum vote of the entire electorate is appropriate. Even then, they need to be carefully considered and formulated.

A "winner takes all" vote, by a margin which could be a little as ONE vote, and without everyone being able, or compelled, to vote is not what I would consider a sensible form of democracy.

In fact....it's lunacy.

[Bombay]

I'm obviously not talking about any members of our forum when I say "There are lies, damn lies and statistics!"

By the way, if a democracy is rule by elected representatives making decisions, is a referendum where the individuals in the population vote en masse, democratic?

Yes...of course it is....but totally unworkable with an electorate of 40 million plus

That's why we have elected MPs....to make democracy workable.

There are occasionally questions...usually to do with constitutional issues....where a referendum vote of the entire electorate is appropriate. Even then, they need to be carefully considered and formulated.

A "winner takes all" vote, by a margin which could be a little as ONE vote, and without everyone being able, or compelled, to vote is not what I would consider a sensible form of democracy.

In fact....it's lunacy.

I may have said this earlier you need at least 60% of the first ballot to become leader of the Tory party without going to a second round of voting.

There should not have been a referendum this simple, that's why with over 41 years of moaning no party has taken us out of the EU in parliament.

[newcastle]

Jeremy Corbyn holds crisis talks with shadow cabinet :

[newcastle]

There's some really bizarre predictions floating around social media today:

Once Brexiteer....so incensed by Boris saying immigration was NOT a Brexit issue...now says Farage will emerge as the only honest contender in a snap election and UKIP will gain a landslide victory!

You really couldn't make it up

Panic

[Horus]

You would think it was panic if you see the state of both political main stream parties. The Labour cabinet member Angela Eagle has also resigned from Jeremy's club stating she could not even get a reply from him when she tried to get a meeting with him, apparently he just ignored her for 24 hours before she decided to quit.

[newcastle]

We certainly don't need any more of this :

UKHome News
Brexit: Wave of hate crime and racial abuse reported after EU referendum
Purported responses to Brexit include signs saying 'Leave the EU, no more Polish vermin' being posted through letter boxes

A man tells another driver: 'Go back to your country' YouTube/Shulem Stern
More than a hundred incidents of racial abuse and hate crime have been reported since the UK voted to leave the European Union.

Many of the alleged perpetrators cited the decision to leave the EU explicitly.

One video, purportedly filmed in Hackney on the morning after the referendum, shows a man arguing with someone in a car before yelling: “Go back to your country.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 04191.html

[Horus]

To be fair, although extremely distasteful it is not entirely unexpected, there has always been an extreme right wing element in this and many other countries. We need to deal with it as severely as possible, but neither should people keep exploiting the actions of a few morons as being representative of everyone who voted to leave .................... there are not 17 million racists residing in the UK contrary to some peoples beliefs and the sooner this is given less publicity the sooner it will cease, like rioters in inner cities they thrive on publicity.

[newcastle]

To be fair, although extremely distasteful it is not entirely unexpected, there has always been an extreme right wing element in this and many other countries. We need to deal with it as severely as possible, but neither should people keep exploiting the actions of a few morons as being representative of everyone who voted to leave .................... there are not 17 million racists residing in the UK contrary to some peoples beliefs and the sooner this is given less publicity the sooner it will cease, like rioters in inner cities they thrive on publicity.

"....it is not entirely unexpected...." because some Brexit supporters with racist leanings have been encouraged by the referendum result. This sudden and significant escalation has occured within 48 hours following the result. It would be naive to suggest that these racists were not Brexit supporters. You will recall that Baroness Warsi switched from LEAVE to REMAIN precisely because she felt the anti-immigrant perspective of the Brexit campaign was intolerable

I have not suggested that these people are representative of all, or even many, Brexit supporters nor that there are 17 million racists in the UK.

The incidents were given some prominence in this afternoon's proceedings in parliament...and rightly so. Ignoring them, in the belief the problem will fade away, is not the answer. Racist thugs need to be exposed and brought to justice and the PM and several speakers emphasised this in the House.

On a different note...the PM seemed to put to rest the issue of whether there might be another referendum.

There won't.

[Horus]

I would not dispute anything you have said other than to reiterate that by a very, very long margin they are not representative of most the people who voted to leave the EU, I cannot speak for a bunch of thugs who will always be just that, Thugs! and that element will always gravitate to any cause that allows them to do so whether it be a referendum or a football match.

[newcastle]

Jeremy Corbyn holds crisis talks with shadow cabinet :

Jeremy got impatient with the wait :

[Horus]

They are having the vote of 'No Confidence' in him tomorrow, that should see some fireworks.
Oh and Standard & Poor's have downgraded the UKs tripple A rating, took their time about it, the other two Moody's and Fitch did that ages ago long before the referendum.