If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

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If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Glyphdoctor » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:30 pm

This is exactly the kind of incendiary crap that would be coming out of the Western press about Luxor's festivals:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wo ... eb19091640



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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by newcastle » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:51 pm

Glyphdoctor wrote:This is exactly the kind of incendiary crap that would be coming out of the Western press about Luxor's festivals:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wo ... eb19091640
Not entirely sure what your point is here Glyph. I wasn't aware Luxor had anything comparable....unless you're alluding to Eid el Adha. You support this rather revolting not-really-Hindu event?

Some things done in the name of "culture", not to say religion, should, perhaps, be conveyed to the dustbin of history.

Like FGM for example.

I think the muslim blood letting at Eid el Adha is unlikely to attract too much criticism...protected as it is by our reluctance to confront any rituals tied to Islam. In any case, much worse happens at abattoirs the world over....every day.

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Zooropa » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:03 pm

newcastle wrote:
Glyphdoctor wrote:This is exactly the kind of incendiary crap that would be coming out of the Western press about Luxor's festivals:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wo ... eb19091640
Not entirely sure what your point is here Glyph. I wasn't aware Luxor had anything comparable....unless you're alluding to Eid el Adha. You support this rather revolting not-really-Hindu event?

Some things done in the name of "culture", not to say religion, should, perhaps, be conveyed to the dustbin of history.

Like FGM for example.

I think the muslim blood letting at Eid el Adha is unlikely to attract too much criticism...protected as it is by our reluctance to confront any rituals tied to Islam. In any case, much worse happens at abattoirs the world over....every day.
Erm Australia, western?

My map is wrong!

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Kevininabydos » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:49 pm

I fail to see the logic in your post title and your link;

you could say the same for the civilisations of the Greeks, Romans, Carpathians, Aztec, Jews.................... need I continue?

Animal sacrifice is as old as human culture and because a religion still practices it does it becomes the responsibility of non-believers to condone it?

On what grounds?

Does the meat from these animals go to waste?

Is the way they are slaughtered any better or worse than Western abattoirs; where a high percentage of animals are butchered before they are supposedly 'humanely' put down or the Halal way where they are left to bleed to death.

I can only assume something must have hit a raw nerve in this article for you to take the leap to compare this to the 'Western' propagandist perception of Egyptian culture.
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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Scottishtourist » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:02 pm

I really can't say that I have any problem with the ritual of animal sacrifice!

Again,a load of "liberals"yapping on about the unfairness to animals and how "incendiary"it is!

Let's not forget that Catholics "eat the body"of Christ and "drink his blood."

Not as a festival..but as an everyday occurrence!If they so wish.

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:16 am

I know nothing first hand about Nepal however what struck me from reading the article is that while poverty is pervasive in Nepal the amassing of that many animals would have cost a pretty penny IF that many animals were amassed for slaughter in one place. Presumably too these animals need to be fed, watered and maintained prior to slaughter which also costs.

Am not saying there isn't a ritual slaughter but are there really that many animals involved or is the number journalistic licence?

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:58 am

Newcastle-You are obsessed with Islam and see it everywhere even when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. My comments have absolutely nothing to do with Islam whatsoever in the slightest.

Seems I made the mistake of posting this for a crowd who knows nothing about ancient Egyptian rituals and fails to see the parallels. My apologies. Never mind.

As for Australia being a Western country, yes it is, from a cultural standpoint. It's not a geographic term.

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:07 am

For what its worth I saw Australia as being western but I was thinking culturally too.

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Dusak » Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:56 am

When we had our new house 'commissioned' by having a sheep sacrificed to bless it, I wasn't happy to see the way it was put down, quite brutal in fact. I did this as the first step into my new Muslim community, a sign of respect. I'm a meat eater, but I'm also an animal lover. Sacrifices are OK if part of a culture, but I would like to see less suffering of the livestock to achieve this. Even in the UK many a firm has been brought to task for their none observance of the correct procedures of slaughtering. And we in the West are supposed to be more civilized, some say. I would like to know if all these sacrificial offerings went to feed the poor and needy, not just laid to waste.
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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Zooropa » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:20 am

Scottishtourist wrote:I really can't say that I have any problem with the ritual of animal sacrifice!

Again,a load of "liberals"yapping on about the unfairness to animals and how "incendiary"it is!

Let's not forget that Catholics "eat the body"of Christ and "drink his blood."

Not as a festival..but as an everyday occurrence!If they so wish.
I think il leave the majority of the reply to this to Jewel - much more her bag.

Except you don't eat the body of Christ and drink his blood do you?

Its a piece of edible paper and wine, there would have to be an awful lot of him to go round.

Killing anything for ritual purposes only is extremely unfair and you don't have to be liberal to think so.

Im about as liberal as Margaret Thatcher.

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Zooropa » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:00 pm

Zooropa wrote:
Scottishtourist wrote:I really can't say that I have any problem with the ritual of animal sacrifice!

Again,a load of "liberals"yapping on about the unfairness to animals and how "incendiary"it is!

Let's not forget that Catholics "eat the body"of Christ and "drink his blood."

Not as a festival..but as an everyday occurrence!If they so wish.
I think il leave the majority of the reply to this to Jewel - much more her bag.

Except you don't eat the body of Christ and drink his blood do you?

Its a piece of edible paper and wine, there would have to be an awful lot of him to go round.

Killing anything for ritual purposes only is extremely unfair and you don't have to be liberal to think so.

Im about as liberal as Margaret Thatcher.
Ive been thinking about this, your logic once again is lost on me.

Am I missing something?

How can a symbolic custom of eating the body and blood of Christ be used to justify or liken to, the ritual slaughter of an animal?

Your priest doesn't kill a lamb or cow before feeding you the meet and its blood does he?

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:08 pm

http://islamqa.info/en/26952

Not sure where non-Muslims trying to ingratiate themselves with the neighbors slaughtering animals falls in the overall scheme of things...But frankly I don't see the point of non-Muslims doing things that Muslims do just to impress the Muslims. It's like play acting.

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Zooropa » Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:00 pm

Dusak wrote:When we had our new house 'commissioned' by having a sheep sacrificed to bless it, I wasn't happy to see the way it was put down, quite brutal in fact. I did this as the first step into my new Muslim community, a sign of respect. I'm a meat eater, but I'm also an animal lover. Sacrifices are OK if part of a culture, but I would like to see less suffering of the livestock to achieve this. Even in the UK many a firm has been brought to task for their none observance of the correct procedures of slaughtering. And we in the West are supposed to be more civilized, some say. I would like to know if all these sacrificial offerings went to feed the poor and needy, not just laid to waste.
So if the tradition had been to beat someone up would you have respected it?

Sacrifices are ok if part of a culture?

No.

Something is either acceptable or it isn't, im surprised at you Dusak, don't usually get mealy mouthed excuses from you.

And by the way, im not really an animal lover.

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by newcastle » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:32 pm

Glyphdoctor wrote:Newcastle-You are obsessed with Islam and see it everywhere even when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. My comments have absolutely nothing to do with Islam whatsoever in the slightest.

Seems I made the mistake of posting this for a crowd who knows nothing about ancient Egyptian rituals and fails to see the parallels. My apologies. Never mind.

As for Australia being a Western country, yes it is, from a cultural standpoint. It's not a geographic term.
I wouldn't say I'm obsessed with Islam.....I find all religions fundamentally obnoxious. I really don't lose much sleep over the consequences for humanity....each to their own.

Your post was cryptic (a habit you need to address)....had you referred to ancient Egyptian ritual slaughtering customs I might have commented differently.

And do try to adopt a less sanctimonious tone in your postings. It's obvious that many on this forum find some of your comments deliberately abrasive. It's not at all an attractive trait.

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Scottishtourist » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:42 pm

Zooropa wrote:
Scottishtourist wrote:I really can't say that I have any problem with the ritual of animal sacrifice!

Again,a load of "liberals"yapping on about the unfairness to animals and how "incendiary"it is!

Let's not forget that Catholics "eat the body"of Christ and "drink his blood."

Not as a festival..but as an everyday occurrence!If they so wish.


Except you don't eat the body of Christ and drink his blood do you?

Its a piece of edible paper and wine, there would have to be an awful lot of him to go round.


That's a typical "unbelievers"point of view Z!
We DO eat his body and drink his blood.
That's the whole point of our beliefs and our understanding of HUMAN sacrifice..nothing as inconsequential as ANIMAL sacrifice!
There's plenty of HIM to go around.HE'S all seeing,loving,merciful and totally omnipotent!
What's the point of "consecration"if we don't believe this?
It may resemble edible paper and wine to you...but it's far from it for a believer!

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Zooropa » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:46 pm

Glyphdoctor wrote:Newcastle-You are obsessed with Islam and see it everywhere even when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. My comments have absolutely nothing to do with Islam whatsoever in the slightest.

Seems I made the mistake of posting this for a crowd who knows nothing about ancient Egyptian rituals and fails to see the parallels. My apologies. Never mind.

As for Australia being a Western country, yes it is, from a cultural standpoint. It's not a geographic term.
I take your point now that you have clarified it, but, "western" is totally a geographic term.

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by newcastle » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:57 pm

Dusak wrote:When we had our new house 'commissioned' by having a sheep sacrificed to bless it, I wasn't happy to see the way it was put down, quite brutal in fact. I did this as the first step into my new Muslim community, a sign of respect. I'm a meat eater, but I'm also an animal lover. Sacrifices are OK if part of a culture, but I would like to see less suffering of the livestock to achieve this. Even in the UK many a firm has been brought to task for their none observance of the correct procedures of slaughtering. And we in the West are supposed to be more civilized, some say. I would like to know if all these sacrificial offerings went to feed the poor and needy, not just laid to waste.
I became aware a few weeks ago of some goats bleating outside my apartment and realised the time had arrived for the ritual slaughter of the two beast to "consecrate" the new dwelling I share with my Egyptian family.

I do find the practice disturbing but realise it's a custom that is going to go on whether or not I approve. Plugging my ears and burying myself in a book was the best I could do 'til it was all over and the blood washed away.

We live in an imperfect world. I abhor the manner in which animals are raised & slaughtered for our convenience...and yet I eat meat (occasionally) and drink cow's milk. I can understand how some people get positively militant in defense of "animal rights"....but choose not to confront it myself. That way lies madness (for me at least....)

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:52 pm

It's hardly cryptic. Re-read the title of the post. I can understand if you know nothing about ancient Egyptian religion that the parallels between the content of this Nepalese festival and the ancient Egyptian ones might be lost on you, but then you should just be completely mystified, not thinking it is about Islam.

As for being abrasive, you just prove to me why it is pointless for me to post about anything related to ancient Egypt. I get attacked with accusations of some ulterior motive when I simple reflect on similarities between ancient Egypt and other things. Do you know how insulting such insinuations are?

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Zooropa » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:16 pm

Glyphdoctor wrote:It's hardly cryptic. Re-read the title of the post. I can understand if you know nothing about ancient Egyptian religion that the parallels between the content of this Nepalese festival and the ancient Egyptian ones might be lost on you, but then you should just be completely mystified, not thinking it is about Islam.

As for being abrasive, you just prove to me why it is pointless for me to post about anything related to ancient Egypt. I get attacked with accusations of some ulterior motive when I simple reflect on similarities between ancient Egypt and other things. Do you know how insulting such insinuations are?
I have reflected on my style on here, I am abrasive, to deny it would be ridiculous, I allow myself to get wound up and off I go.

Im trying to address that.

Im not sure whether what Newcastle has said is an insult in as much as if you are speaking the truth about someone is it insulting?

Almost every thing you put on here is laced with references to other users without naming them, that's a plain fact demonstrable by reading your posts.

If you put me aside, with all due respects, in my opinion, you are clearly the most abrasive on here.

I must concur with Newcastle.

If you don't like it then perhaps you should change.

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Re: If the pharaohs still ruled Egypt today...

Post by Zooropa » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:25 pm

Scottishtourist wrote:
Zooropa wrote:
Scottishtourist wrote:I really can't say that I have any problem with the ritual of animal sacrifice!

Again,a load of "liberals"yapping on about the unfairness to animals and how "incendiary"it is!

Let's not forget that Catholics "eat the body"of Christ and "drink his blood."

Not as a festival..but as an everyday occurrence!If they so wish.


Except you don't eat the body of Christ and drink his blood do you?

Its a piece of edible paper and wine, there would have to be an awful lot of him to go round.


That's a typical "unbelievers"point of view Z!
We DO eat his body and drink his blood.
That's the whole point of our beliefs and our understanding of HUMAN sacrifice..nothing as inconsequential as ANIMAL sacrifice!
There's plenty of HIM to go around.HE'S all seeing,loving,merciful and totally omnipotent!
What's the point of "consecration"if we don't believe this?
It may resemble edible paper and wine to you...but it's far from it for a believer!
Well in that case its case closed.

I cant rationally debate someone (and in truth ive known this all along) who looks at a piece of paper and some wine possibly bought from the local Tesco and then blessed or whatever it is that's done to it and then sees it as flesh and blood.

The next time im in Tesco I might ask the assistant what isle the bottles of Jesus blood are just to see her reaction.

At least you have provided me with yet another reason why im glad its you rather than me.

When I look at something I want to see it as what it is, not what a 2000 year old book tells me it actually is.

And it really does prove a point I made recently, if you can convince a good person like yourself that its flesh and blood rather than paper and wine its not really surprising that people can be made to kill and maim either.

Is it?
Last edited by Zooropa on Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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