Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers outcry

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Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers outcry

Post by DJKeefy » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:15 pm

Video of woman giving birth outside Egyptian hospital triggers outcry.

CAIRO (Reuters) - An Egyptian hospital director was suspended on Monday after a video purporting to show a woman giving birth on the facility's doorstep caused an uproar among citizens tired of overcrowded and understaffed medical centres.

The woman's husband, Ahmed Musa Abdel Fattah, was quoted by the website of state-run newspaper Al-Ahram as saying the couple were turned away by hospital staff who told them the only doctor was busy performing a Caesarean section on another woman.

In the video, uploaded to YouTube and published on news sites, the woman, covered by her veil and a sheet as she lies on her back in the street, appears to go into labour outside Kafr al-Dawar Public Hospital. Two nurses later run outside, duck under the sheet and emerge with a baby in a pink blanket.

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The hospital, in the Nile Delta city of Kafr al-Dawar, said staff were ready and willing to deliver the baby and the video was a ploy by the woman's family to discredit the facility.

State news agency MENA said the provincial health minister had suspended the hospital director pending an investigation.

But that has not been enough to quell the online and on-air anger of Egyptians, who have accused the hospital of negligence and questioned the state's commitment to the health of its population of 85 million.

"When hospitals let women give birth in the street, it raises questions of government negligence, no matter how much the government flaunts its commitment to women's rights," one Egyptian said on a Facebook page dedicated to the incident.

The World Health Organisation said last year the main shortcomings of the Egyptian healthcare system were high out-of-pocket expenses required from patients and low government spending, which put care out of the reach of the very poor and left clinics unable to hire staff to treat those who can pay.

The government has promised to improve services.

Abdel Fattah told the paper that staff at the hospital, the chief medical facility for the industrial city of a quarter of a million people, urged the couple to go to Alexandria, around 30 km (20 miles) away, for treatment instead.

He said that when they insisted that the hospital provide an ambulance, security officers removed the pregnant woman from the building and she went into labour while waiting for a taxi.

The video, which appears to be cellphone footage shot by a bystander, shows her lying on the pavement just metres away from the hospital beside a stretcher.

She is shown surrounded by several women who appear to be comforting her, as well as her husband and various bystanders.

"Look at the human rights here, where a woman has to give birth in the street when there's a hospital right there," one man is heard saying.

Afterwards, the woman is loaded onto the stretcher and taken into the hospital as the crowd disperses.

The hospital denies that it asked the woman to leave.

"We do not allow any patients to be turned away," the hospital said in a statement posted on the official Facebook page of the Buheira Governorate Ministry of Health.

"Those who were with the patient chose to have the baby outside in order to videotape it and defame the hospital."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/video-woman-givin ... 46991.html


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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:06 pm

My goodness. Definitely a dire situation all 'round.

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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by Dusak » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:55 am

This report does not surprise me as my friend has told me many horror stories of things she has witnessed while walking through the maternity section on her way to visit friends and family members that have had deliveries in the International Hospital. May be a silly thought of mine but caesarian births seem to be the more the 'norm' than natural births and I often wonder if it something to do with a religious aspect ie, woman being in full view of males during the sequence of pushes. She tells me that she knows no one that has delivered the natural way and her brother who's first is due in a couple of weeks finds the idea of 'other men' viewing his wife as haram.
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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:31 am

It is definitely a sorry state when men have so much say over a woman's body. I'd hate to be writhing in pain in acute labor in front of a doctor who was forbidden to help me until the hubby arrived to give permission. That being said it is what is presently is in Egypt and quite probably not going to change in the near future.

In Canada many many women on getting pregnant enlist the services of a Doula who stays with them and helps them during labor and delivery. Granted a Doula is a non-medical person but it is comforting to have somebody with you who is fully versed in birthing a baby. Mid-wives are also real common when it comes to delivering babies.

Can't understand why Egypt doesn't have more women in medical capacities who could help other women.

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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by Glyphdoctor » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:18 am

I strongly suspect the high rate of C-section is because it makes more money for the doctor performing it, nothing more. And people will follow what the doctor tells them to do even if it isn't warranted.

As for being afraid of other males seeing their wives, Egyptians are clearly totally uptight about that. Go to a gynecologists' waiting room and all the women have a relative-husband, mother, etc.-attached to their arm. Although a nurse is always present anyway when the woman is with the doctor so it shouldn't matter. I'm always the only woman alone when I go, because my husband actually trusts his male colleagues to act appropriately without him present. The average male though has a hang-up.

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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by newcastle » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:50 pm

I thought 3 "Caesars" was about the safe limit for a woman*. If Caesars are prevalent then, bearing in mind that Egyptian women often have many more than 3, perhaps there's an added cause for concern here.

*This per that awful news recently about doctors in Ireland "sawing through the pelvic bones" of women having difficult a labour rather than resorting to a caesarian....because the latter would have limited their capacity to have huge broods, as encouraged by Catholic doctrine.

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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by newcastle » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:56 pm

Glyphdoctor wrote:I strongly suspect the high rate of C-section is because it makes more money for the doctor performing it, nothing more. And people will follow what the doctor tells them to do even if it isn't warranted.

As for being afraid of other males seeing their wives, Egyptians are clearly totally uptight about that. Go to a gynecologists' waiting room and all the women have a relative-husband, mother, etc.-attached to their arm. Although a nurse is always present anyway when the woman is with the doctor so it shouldn't matter. I'm always the only woman alone when I go, because my husband actually trusts his male colleagues to act appropriately without him present. The average male though has a hang-up.
You may be right regarding the commercial attractions of C-section. On the other hand, it's probably safer for a woman to have a quick Caesarian (a few minutes under the knife) than risk a long and possibly difficult labour in many Egyptian hospitals.

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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:52 pm

I can't quote the source but C-sections were definitely on the rise in both Canada and the USA such that it became a matter of investigation. It was found that doctors were opting for C-sections as they're quick, easy, most $$ for the doctor yet saves time for the doctor waiting around for the women to go through labor with possible complications for the fetus. C-sections are also safe(r) for the baby too. Stats for this procedure were extremely high and word went out to cut back on them. Now doctors have more of a responsibility to justify why they're doing a C-section vs allowing the woman to deliver naturally.

I know my daughter (preggers with twins) had a C-section to deliver them as the this was considered a high risk pregnancy but that was only determined after examinations and ultrasounds to show the positions of the babies. Not too sure if most women in Egypt go for routine prenatal care i.e. ultrasounds which can give indications re: baby and what might need to happen but my thinking is that like here when money is tight prenatal care is not an expense they wish to incur.

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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by Dusak » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:38 pm

For those that are interested, or those that will know better :evil: I've asked my friend as to the cost. These figures are based on a no complication natural birth and the same by c-section. These are Luxor International hospital and the private birth clinic costs in Luxor.

Natural birth. Cost in the hospital 1,250Le + about another 1,000Le with the doctors visits during the pregnancy and the injections and medication required. The private clinic is 2,250Le plus the same extra costs. Both of these you are still expected to pay baksheesh to the amount you can comfortably afford with all those concerned with the birth and hospitalization during and after.

C-section. Cost 2,000Le with again all the extras needed. Private clinic 3,250Le + the extras.

My friend, although single and has never had children, has witnessed seventeen births in her immediate family so is familiar with the costs and the financial hardships these births can produce.
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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:52 pm

I'd imagine those costs would be relatively steep for an average family. Does your friend know if most women do go to the hospital or do they try for having their babies at home until it is determined there is a complication and then make a mad dash?

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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by Dusak » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:03 pm

Don't know the answer to this one so I will ask about it. I did hear in another conversation years back that there are local, self trained midwives that the poorest of the poor rely on. Doubt that they ever preform a c-section though, or at least I hope not.
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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by Dusak » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:57 pm

LovelyLadyLux wrote:I'd imagine those costs would be relatively steep for an average family. Does your friend know if most women do go to the hospital or do they try for having their babies at home until it is determined there is a complication and then make a mad dash?
This question of yours resulted in a very confused conversation LLL. I remembered your query as we sat down with a sandwich to watch the news. It went like this.

Me-''Do any women do home deliveries when the baby is due?''
She- ''No, its the men. You have seen this. They come round with the fresh milk to sell or the breakfast food to your door.''
Me- :ni:
Me- ''No, I'm talking about a midwife.''
She- ''If the husband has three wives the middle one will take her orders from the first wife, the third from the second middle wife. Why you ask this?
Me- :ni: During a very long exasperated sigh.
Me- ''A midwife is a person that delivers a baby at the pregnant woman's home, not on about the middle wife of a married man.''
She- ''OK, marshie, why didn't you say this? No.''

:cry:
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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:24 pm

Good one Dusak :up or rather complicated one but thanks for trying.

I'd of thought that midwife or the like would be there as their cost would be much less to the family. They are quite common here now and many women are preferring them to doctors unless the going gets tough and the services of a doctor are required. Most midwives here are certified, credentialed or whatever it is they need to be and have access to hospitals so they are there with their moms.

Won't ask you to ask your friend if episiotomies are routinely done (unless you want to ;) ) there prior to the birth. They're another thing that seems to be routinely done here and there has been questioning here if they need to be as routinely done as they are.

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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by carrie » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:21 pm

I have often wondered if female circumcision has anything to do with the prevelance of C sections. I had to go and see a "female doctor" once and she was female. Even though the doctor was a woman I have never seen so many ladies wearing the niqab before. No men in the clinic at all they had all come accompanied by their female relatives. The doctor said she performed C sections in her surgery, she had a small operating room, can't call it an operating theatre and a further room where woman were taken to recover after giving birth. Just thank heavens that I never had to give birth here.
A male friend once told me that his sister(unmarried) had a problem and I said that I had been to see this lady doctor and she seemed very good. He told me that she couldn't possibly go to this doctor because his sister was a girl, meaning she wasn't married and henceforth a virgin, if anyone saw her going to see this doctor then tongues would wag and her reputation would be ruined.

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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by Glyphdoctor » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:57 am

That's a problem. My husband recently told me of a case of a teenage girl with what seemed to be painful endometriosis. Putting her on birth control probably would have helped, but because she wasn't married that wasn't a socially acceptable option. He told her the pain would go away when she got married and got pregnant and that was exactly what happened.

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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by Who2 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:26 am

I think you would be surprised just how many babies are born in Hospital car parks, more often than not it's an emergency to get the woman into hospital the closer one gets the more the expectant mother relaxes besides a physical thing it's also mentally based thing, we did one once and also one in a toilet and two in the back of the ambulance… :cool:
Ps: Giving birth anywhere convenient or inconvienent it's difficult to stop this totally natural occurrence.
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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by Dusak » Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:58 am

The thinking of some of the locals here just gets worse. My friends sister in law went for the final check up at the Doc's last night. Its due a week on Sunday, her first. He said everything was good, the baby was positioned perfectly for a natural birth. The girls mother objected to this, demanding a c-section. Why, my friend asked when the baby can come naturally. The mother stated that a natural birth at her daughters age [18] could kill the baby. And as she was very frightened and young, she would not know when to push so it would be safer to cut it out. Apparently the daughter said nothing against it, just nodded her head. Pathetic.
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Re: Video of woman giving birth outside hospital triggers ou

Post by Glyphdoctor » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:39 pm

When 1 in 40 infants dies as they do in Egypt, it's not a completely unfounded fear. As strange as some of the practices surrounding childbirth may be to an outsider, they all have their own internal logic that makes sense.

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