Brexit Voter Attitudes

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Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by Hafiz » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:26 am

There is a lot of post-truthing going on about the Brexiteers and most of it is coming from the Brexiteers. Most of it is anecdote parading as fact. A bit like the campaign.

Here are some stats from 13,000 respondents taken after the Brexit vote by a professional polling organization associated with and funded by a Brexit leader and primary funder. So if there is any bias its in favor of the Brexiteers.

Its not pretty reading.

2/3rds of those on a state pension wanted to leave
2/3rds of Asians wanted to stay
70% of Muslims wanted to stay
58% of Christians (overwhelmingly Protestants) wanted to commune with Brexit
58% of Conservatives voted Brexit
For those who wanted to leave immigration was the second most important issue after sovereignty.

Those who wanted Brexit overwhelmingly wanted Boris as the next PM in the immediate follow up to the Brexit vote.
By a very large majority those who voted Brexit saw themselves as English not British

Brexiteers were much more pessimistic about the future. Whether this was because they would deterine it or because of other factors beyond their control isn't clear.

Here it gets very interesting with very wide differences on social issues and modernity in general:

The next is an unpleasant surprise.

Overwhelmingly Brexiteers thought the following were ills:
Multiculturalism
Social liberalism
Feminism
Globalization
The internet
Immigration
The Green Movement

So its not just about sovereignty, the Brexiteers differ profoundly from the other side on fundamental values about how we live our lives and how we see ourselves.

Is there anything they like about the modern world? Has anything good happened? They don’t even much like Great Britain or being British. Maybe they want to go back to before the Act of Union with Scotland to a purer England although that would give them dreadful and Catholic (and Scot) Queen Anne. Maybe earlier. The Tudors – although they were Welsh. What about the French Plantagenets? Maybe a pure England only exists before the French invasion? Maybe it never existed.

If the Brexiteers have little Unionist sentiment does this mean the crown, as symbol of the Union, has failed them? Does their own lack of support for the Union translate into support for Scot independence or would that be too logical?

They think their lives are awful and going to get worse and pretty much all the social changes in the past two generations have been for ill. Not unexpectedly all their problems are someone else’s fault or caused by large dark forces. Starting to sound a bit like victimized Egypt.

If this is the will of the people can we expect a wind back on women or sanctions against the Internet in the future? It all gets a bid odd at this stage because men and women voted roughly equal for Brexit. This must mean there are a lot of self-loathing female Brexit voters out there regretting feminism – along with a lot of males.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/ho ... d-and-why/

Remember this poll was produced by the dodgy, big political donor, tax exile Brexiteer Lord Ashcroft who resigned his seat in the Lords, but not his peerage, rather than pay tax. Do I really need to go through that man’s CV – its little better than his fellow Brexit leaders. In this summary he expresses no concern about the social attitudes of his ‘supporters’.

Makes it easy to understand why Jews overwhelmingly wanted to stay. http://www.timesofisrael.com/brexit-pol ... ain-in-eu/. They would hardly feel welcome in the other ‘camp’. Other minorities like Catholics also look to have voted to remain for similar reasons. In Northern Island it was crushing. http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/just-1 ... -1-7630311 Sort of makes sense that vulnerable minorities, with good antennae, would feel uncomfortable with the values and intentions of the Brexiteers. They don’t look a tolerant and welcoming lot.

Another survey from a reputable organization has Brexit voters as strongly authoritarian (like Trump supporters) compared with less authoritarian Remain voters so lets look forward to a nasty future.

Image

and some other worrying mental biases that apply to both sides. https://www.newscientist.com/article/21 ... ds-brexit/

These stats do not mean that all Brexiteers are backward looking and authoritarian just that such extreme groups are a deal more significant in the Brexit camp than in the Remain. I am not suggesting that all Brexit voters lack clear logic just that a disproportionate number do.

Wonder what the Brexiteers think of Jews, Catholics, abortion, the law courts, judges, gays, gypsies, the disabled, young people, wine, the disabled, European food, diversity, the death penalty, direct democracy, civil and human rights, universities, equal opportunity, village versus city life, Scots, the Welsh, Irish, Darwinism, Trump, le Pen, the United Nations, modern architecture and art, Muslims, dark people, the French, the Germans or even Egyptians. Guess we will find out.

With these Little Britain views in the ascendant the Prince of Wales could be in his element. In his new Lilliput he could be a giant.

That such views are similar to Trump and le Pen voters hardly needs saying. The hard right in Germany is not dissimilar on the resurgent nationalism. Emerging, but still small, hard right voters in rural and regional Australia are also similar.



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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by Major Thom » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:21 am

Guess what I support Hafiz? When the referendum was on and people voted there was no mention on a deal with the EU, the voting paper gave two options stay or leave. People voted to leave, did not matter if they were black or white, Jewish or Athiest, Protestant or Catholic. The vote was taken o leave, this was almost 3 years ago now, and the UK has still not left. OK it was nota big majority, but nether a less a majority. I have head he turn out of voters was low, whose fault is that? Not the Politicians, it was the people that could not be bothered to vote. So now the UK is left at the mercy of headline grabbers such as Jeremy Corbyn, Jo Swinson, and Tory MP's that want to stay in the EU. No one seems to remember what the vote was, non of these viper MP's seem to want to support the voters even though their contituency voted leave. Its a real mess created by MP's themselves, and other lunatics in Westminster. Now there is a PM who is wanting to get on with it and rebuild the Country from almost 10 years if Austerity caused by the collapse of many UK Banks, while the Labour Government was in power, and Gordon Brown taking his eyes off the ball. Thats my thoughts on the matter and really theres no more to be said....

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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by Major Thom » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:22 am

Oh forgot to say look at the protesters, manly remoaners.

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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by newcastle » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:47 am

Major Thom wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:22 am
Oh forgot to say look at the protesters, manly remoaners.
Really????

I’m amazed! Who’d have thought it.......those who voted remain protesting against leaving with no vote!

Weird or what.

:a23: :))) :a23: :))) :a23: :)))

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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by newcastle » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:13 am

“There is a lot of post-truthing going on about the Brexiteers and most of it is coming from the Brexiteers. Most of it is anecdote parading as fact. A bit like the campaign.”

I’m not sure what you mean by this Hafiz. (and BTW...who is this catholic Queen Anne you mention??)

The demographics of the Referendum voters is reasonably well established, by the Ashcroft analysis you highlight and by many similar polls.

The “out” vote was carried by the older voters and those in social classes C, D & E. I don’t find it surprising. These voters were the more likely to vote against the status quo....they will have been more affected by government austerity over the period 2008-2016.

It’s always seemed to me that the vote was a gut response. How could you reasonably expect the majority of the electorate to understand the economic ramifications of leaving, or staying. There’s precious little understanding or agreement about it after 3 years!

I found the talk of sovereignty particularly puzzling. Very few people understood how the EU worked or indeed how sovereignty works in the UK.

Hence the widespread misunderstanding that the referendum was anything but a glorified opinion poll. In our constitution, Parliament is sovereign...not the Queen....not the executive.....and not the people. Cameron was guilty of grossly misleading the public in saying the government would implement the result. What he should have said is that the government would try its best, via the whip, to implement the result. Parliament could have made the outcome mandatory in the Act which authorised the Referendum......it chose not to.

The ensuing debacle has given us 3 years of acrimonious toing and froing, with sections of the public at each other’s throats because they feel they have been let down or lied to........and with the economic affairs of the country in limbo.

I trust the idea of ever holding a referendum on anything is now consigned to the dustbin of history. If you don’t like what your MPs are doing, you have the opportunity to replace them at least every 5 years. In the meantime, let them get on with running the country as their consciences dictate.
Last edited by newcastle on Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by HEPZIBAH » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:25 am

Not all Remainers are Remoaners.

I think it's fair to point out that there are many, many people who voted to remain who, whilst not happy with the result, accepted the democratic process and were prepared to move on.

Personally, being someone who remained on the fence until the 11th hour, but fell onto the Remain side, my biggest gripe is the realisation of my biggest fear in this whole debacle - that it was going to be a long, drawn out process with very little direction.
I still maintain that if the country had been given more information - better laid out pluses and minuses for businesses and individuals, knock on effect, potential scenarios etc. before the event the actual vote and results would have been clearer as in a more defined majority - one way or another.
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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by newcastle » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:35 am

Why should someone who voted remain not voice their opposition to the outcome and campaign vigorously for it to be overturned? Calling those who voted remain and continue to campaign for remain “remoaners” is a typical piece of perjorative name-calling by - who else - the DailyFail.

What weird philosophy dictates that you must meekly accept the opinion of others simply because they outnumber you??

Accepting the implemented law of the land is one thing. Accepting the opinions of others is totally different.

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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by John Landon » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:37 am

This topic is a perfect example of Government in Action.
Here we have the Politico doing what they do best. Getting peopel fighting amongst each other so they dont get together and hold Government to account.

If anyone watched the TV last night, there were some harsh truths spoken.
Politicians by thier own admission say are there to serve thier own interests and that of thier party.
They believe that people vote them in to office ( NOT POWER ) so that they can exercise thier superior knowledge ( what athey learned at Eton ) and not to represent the peoples wishes.

Please realise These "Faces" people vote for are NOT the decision makers and as such are NOT the leaders, which is why democracy is really just an illusion. The 1997 Election and subsequent Fuel tax protests 20 months later taught me that.
I wasted 20 years voting, those 20 years were under a conservative Government that came into OFFICE when I was in College in 1979.

What we have is better than Communism which killed 50 Million people in Russia and could have taken out another 20 Million people in Germany, But they were banned in the Weimar Republic one day after Adolf Hitler won in the German elections in 1933. ( I wonder what that made him ? There is a word for that ) Mes.... :tk

All Our Politicians are capable of doing when a problem arises be it a real problem or media generated problem is to tax it or create yet anothe bloody law ( in reality they are acts )

Confidence is at it's lowest now than it has ever been, and this Brexit clusterfuck came about because the politico thought that the people would vote to remain, and they were not prepared for a NO Vote! No Plan. Genius !
Though as in Ireland they made them vote again. Just in time for the Irish bank to get a EU Bailout that it would not have received if the NO Vote had stuck.. No rat to be smelled there..right ?

Talk about out of touch, !
People have not had thier concerns about the EU listened to nor acted upon, us older Generation have seen the Common Market morph into a politicians breeding ground and had more rules an regulations forced upon us with no actual benefit for the common man who is paying for it all. Bueet mountian, Wine lakes, just a taste of things to come...

The EU is all about business, not happy people standing hand in hand singing "I'd like to teach the word to sing in perfect harmony".

Over the years We have watched France and Germany and other countries do what was best for them, and this shows we are not truly united.
Countries like Portual lie about their wealth to get loans, Greeks who dont pay taxes wherever possible, and then the honest countries have to bail them out, then bugger me we then need a bailout and suffer Austerity as a result. Even the Middle classes with thier "I'm allright Jack" attitude are still quaking in thier boots.

People voted out to try to get the running of this country back into the hands of the UK government.
They were not Racists or ignorant fools, they had an opinion which they belived to be true, as did the remianers who though the EU was a great idea. Which in all honesty it could have been had the useless politicians not got so involved.

What has come to light however is that people now realise that its a case of Frying pan or Fire. Politics as we know it will have to change, we are on the brink. How we react to that will determine the outcome.

trust me, this is not over yet, BIG Changes are coming, there will be a revolution of sorts, as it is now clear that things have to change.

Think of the Roman Empire and why it fell. Overreaching itself in far away lands, Fiscal taxes, laws, unemployment laziness, complacency.. Those times are back !

Hopefully a solution lies on the horizon, I do not belive we are doomed, those day have left us a few years ago.


Electricity has been the force behind an unpublisised Industrial Revolution, look how far it has brought us, and the level of communication we have today which was the stuff of Sci-Fi Books just 50 years ago, and beyond that even.

We have to use that communication wiseley, let the electricity connect us all and make this world the responsibilty of ALL not just the few, who will inevitably become corrupt as history has taught us time after time..

I at least have faith that this will be sorted out and things will change for the better globally. But as they say its always darkest before the dawn.. Forget Brexit, keep your eyes on the bigger picture that is emerging.. And Hopefully we will come out of this OK..

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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by Horus » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:53 am

In true Remoaner fashion they cannot accept a defeat, the most commonly trotted out excuse is “A referendum is not valid under UK constitutional law”. Well saying as we do not have a written constitution that argument falls flat, most things that happen in UK governance are the result of some sort of precedence being set and that later becomes the accepted norm. You only have to look at the way the ‘impartial’ speakers role has been changed in recent years by the blatantly biased Remainer view of John Bercoe. Remoaners certainly have short memories

In 1975 a Referendum was held.
The Question Verbatim was:
The Government has announced the results of the renegotiation of the United Kingdom's terms of membership of the European Community. Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?

In 2011 a Referendum was held.
The Question Verbatim was:
At present, the UK uses the "first past the post" system to elect MPs to the House of Commons. Should the "alternative vote" system be used instead?

In 2016 a Referendum was held.
The Question Verbatim was:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Then we have had other regional referendums within England, Wales, Scotland and in Northern Ireland, the more famous example being the 2014 Scottish Independence referendum which gave a much more clearer result, but as usual the Remoaners in that vote just can't accept the result either. So lets have no more rubbish about them not being a part of our constitution.
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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by newcastle » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:03 pm

You conveniently omit to mention that the 2011 Act authorising the Referendum on Alternative Voting specifically included provision that, in the event of a “yes” vote, the proposals would automatically come into force in accordance with legislation already passed.

8Commencement or repeal of amending provisions

(1)The Minister must make an order bringing into force section 9, Schedule 10 and Part 1 of Schedule 12 (“the alternative vote provisions”) if—

(a)more votes are cast in the referendum in favour of the answer “Yes” than in favour of the answer “No”, and
(b)the draft of an Order in Council laid before Parliament under subsection (5A) of section 3 of the Parliamentary Constituencies Act 1986 (substituted by section 10(6) below) has been submitted to Her Majesty in Council under section 4 of that Act.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /8/enacted

This Referendum was unique in that respect.

All other referendums were recognised as “advisory”....as any perusal of commentary and sources of the constitutional position will confirm.
Last edited by newcastle on Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by Horus » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:15 pm

As I have said many times before, its all smoke and mirrors from people who cannot accept that they lost, the latest debacle in Parliament shows that. Also as I have said before, I don't really care anymore as this shows that UK democracy is dead and I will in future just sit back and watch the chaos as the Remoaners get their just desserts for their abuse of the system. Finally, do you really believe that the Scots would have taken the result as 'advisory' if they had won the referendum? if so you are seriously deluded. :urm:
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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by newcastle » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:20 pm

Whilst one might expect people to be disappointed when Parliament ignores their views, I’m afraid that is the reality of the situation under our constitution. Their only recourse is to replace those politicians at the next electoral opportunity.

Of course they can also take to the streets.....maybe even start a civil war. :lol:

Unlikely, I would have thought...but then anything’s possible with people who don’t understand (or don’t like) how our democracy, formulated over many centuries, works.

In normal circumstances one would expect Parliament to accept the expressed wishes of the public. The problem here is that it’s by no means clear that the public wants us to leave with no deal....except for those who claim to be able to read the minds of the 17.5 million who voted leave.

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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by Who2 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:00 pm

I'm for Icelandic independence...... 8)

Ps: Fish matter....fish have feelings....
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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by John Landon » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:55 am

So, where does this bridge lead to then ?

15326

Says it all really.. 8)

Where the f*ck is Guy Fawkes when you need him.. ? :tk

So despite my post, I really and truly do not care, Down here in the valley of lies, is a decptive place, It's been the ruin of many a great civiliastion..


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You should try it sometime, Life gets a whole lot better.. :up

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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by Major Thom » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:54 pm

I think judging by TV its the remainers casing all the problems, and of course those that swing each way depending on if they can get their way! Its almost 90% remainers creating problems outside Westminster, along with many MP's all seeking their moment of glory. While Parliament is prorogued niether Sky News or BBC News have much to report so they are spinning on if's, but's and maybe's in a similar way to the remainers. What makes me laugh is MP's whose Constituency voted leave are voting remain! So you cannot really call them peoples MP's. Most now want it over and done with!

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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by Horus » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:02 pm

Most now want it over and done with!
Amen to that :st
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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by HEPZIBAH » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:53 pm

I don't think for one minute that it is solely the remainers causing the problems.

I do agree that 'most now want it over and done with'.
The whole thing is, and has been, a farce worthy of the Ealing Studios.
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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by Who2 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:30 am

Personally, I cannot see a 'deal happening with most of the EU countries.
Especially France. As with the Yanks their lease/lend cost us the UK $7.8 billion.
How much is that worth in 2019 ?
Time we charged Europe for the last War... 8)
Ps: Love it or Hate it, the Question was dead simple ? Stay or Leave...
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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by HEPZIBAH » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:22 am

Who2 wrote: Ps: Love it or Hate it, the Question was dead simple ? Stay or Leave...
The question may have been dead simple, the ramifications were/are not.

The 'what, why, and wherefore' certainly could not have been simple as our MP's were unable to adequately and truthfully explain them to us, the voting public.
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Re: Brexit Voter Attitudes

Post by Who2 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:05 pm

And just when, does anyone read the small print before signing on the .......line ?... 8)
Ps: You wouldn't understand the what, why, and wherefore' anyhow, that's politics...
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