If anybody's interested

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If anybody's interested

Post by crewmeal »

Has this been said before?

The Egyptian State Tourist Authority is to launch a new UK campaign to capitalise on renewed and growing interest in the destination.

http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/ ... newsletter

Shame Luxor isn't mentioned yet again.


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Re: If anybody's interested

Post by newcastle »

It will primarily showcase the beachfront city of Hurghada with its bustling markets, buzzing nightlife and glamorous, yacht-lined marinas alongside world-class resorts, restaurants and boutiques
I must get out more....I seem to have overlooked all that :lol:

It's certainly the case that Egypt's marketing effort is targeted at the Red Sea resorts.....an easier concept to sell to sun-loving Europeans. Antiquities is, by comparison, a niche market.

And the Red Sea is well covered with recently modernised international airports.

Once again, Upper Egypt is on the back-burner of government attention....certainly as regards tourism.
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Re: If anybody's interested

Post by Hafiz »

The government funded marketing and the location/approval of flights do exactly as intended - puts tourists/money in the 'right' pockets in the locations they have invested in.

No Saudi investor, nor major property developer, nor the awful Sawiris family, nor any 'connected' businessman has put any fresh money into Luxor for a long time - they have all invested in either Cairo or the coast and even those who once invested in Luxor - the dreaded/fugitive Chaity family - now invest elsewhere in Egypt . If and when they do invest in Luxor maybe the marketing budget and flights will change. Meanwhile its up to the locals to take the initiative to grow the tourist flow.
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Re: If anybody's interested

Post by newcastle »

Hafiz wrote:The government funded marketing and the location/approval of flights do exactly as intended - puts tourists/money in the 'right' pockets in the locations they have invested in.

No Saudi investor, nor major property developer, nor the awful Sawiris family, nor any 'connected' businessman has put any fresh money into Luxor for a long time - they have all invested in either Cairo or the coast and even those who once invested in Luxor - the dreaded/fugitive Chaity family - now invest elsewhere in Egypt . If and when they do invest in Luxor maybe the marketing budget and flights will change. Meanwhile its up to the locals to take the initiative to grow the tourist flow.
I can't see Sawiris touching Luxor with a barge pole.

Hamed El Chiaty still hasn't accounted for the money he made on the Novotel Hotel debacle so I imagine the place has unpleasant memories for him. I think, however, he's made his peace with the current regime and can enjoy his billions. As far as I know he still controls the Steigenberger, Iberotel and sundry Nile cruise boats.
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Re: If anybody's interested

Post by Major Thom »

There is far too much ground work to be done in Luxor before tourists return, and as for locals doing their bit, they have been doing it for the past 5 years aided by ex pats and foreign visitors and it just does not work, there is plenty of sun in Luxor for sun seekers so its not that, we used to know many return visitors to the Jolie Ville who came for the sun only, many never left the hotel all the time they were there. As for renewed interest, it will only take one incident to change that. There does not seem to be an answer at the moment, what with Christians being targeted and security getting shot up, as reported in another post, there seems to be little to forge forward.
Everybody knows how ex pats got together and tried to lift tourism in Luxor, but it just did not work, there seemed to be lack of interest by those that could have done something. Even the last series of Game of Thrones lost its lustre and I presume that is Luxor's problem its lost its lustre and its charm. There is only so long you can beat a horse before it gives up the ghost and dies, and like the horse people have given up. That is what is starting to come across. the story gets even stranger when you think how many ex pats, sorry tourists lived in Luxor 8 years ago to how many there are now. But that is maybe not down to Luxor entirely it is maybe down to the fact of how people are not really made welcome, I mean by the visa situation, constantly being treated like criminals and spies, stolen from harassed and made to feel very uneasy. Its got 10 time worse since poverty become rife, and Cairo looks after Cairo and no where else. Very Political and no one can see it.
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Re: If anybody's interested

Post by newcastle »

Luxor, along with the rest of Egypt, enjoyed a steady increase in tourism levels throughout the closing decades of the 20th century.

The first decade of the 21st century witnessed an extraordinary spurt....arguably an unsustainable one, outrunning the ability of the infrastructure to cope.

Maybe tourism figures for Luxor will never recover to the 2010 levels....perhaps it would be unfortunate if they did. The 2000-2010 boom did little for the welfare of the local population - apart from those employed in tourism - and instilled in them the expectation of a perpetual source of easy money.

That the expat population has decreased is probably no bad thing either. What did they ever do for the local economy other than swell the bank balances of property speculators and encourage the nefarious activities of the less honest section of the local community. It's still far easier and cheaper for a foreigner to reside long term in Luxor than anywhere in Europe.....so cost/visa issues can't be the reason they've left....unless the were living so close to the margins of financial survival that the prospect of a round trip abroad was intolerable. Not the category of expat that will be much missed I'd have thought.

The locals will already have had their pound of flesh selling them an apartment when they arrived....or palming off their sons as 'dream husbands'
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Re: If anybody's interested

Post by Hafiz »

My basic point was that there are no important players in Luxor who will have an influence on government policy on where they spend their marketing money or grant approvals to plane landings.

The Chaity family story is long, sordid and very vulgar - and best left to another post.

The family have yet to make a financial settlement to 'deal with' their crimes and escaped and have not reentered Egypt I think, since 2011. A wise move.

Steigenberger is their overseas multinational vehicle and as a German company with Egyptian assets difficult for the Egyptian government to 'discipline' in the way it normally does with those stupid locals who just kept their money in Egypt. The simple story is that like S. they got there money out - although not nearly as much as N.S. How the Chaities made so much money so quickly is a mystery and how they paid for the German 5 star hotel company is even stranger. Rather, I think their German assets are not fully theirs as claimed but part owned/controlled by another person - but its impossible to know these things about Jersey Island Trusts.

How an escapee from Egyptian justice evaded a freezing of his Egyptian assets is a mystery and how Egypt failed to apply to western governments to freeze his overseas assets is very strange. Still its been lucky for Chaity. He recently spent US$6 million on his sons Greek wedding the vulgarity and self-publicity of which was only enhanced by the attendance of Egyptian billionaires including the appalling al Fayed.
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Re: If anybody's interested

Post by newcastle »

Well I don't think it was a hologram of El Chiaty participating in a round table discussion with prominent Egyptian tourism bigwigs on an Egyptian satellite channel program exactly a year ago.

I don't suppose he spends much time here, despite his role as chairman of the Travco group. He has his yacht and sundry palatial residences scattered around the world requiring his attention.

But he seems a free agent, and not on a travel ban list. Maybe it's right that he's made his peace with Sisi.....as have the Sawiris boys who are frequently seen around town, in El Gouna and in the media. With all the grants, loans etc pouring into Egypt since he took over, maybe Sisi no longer has the need, nor appetite, to chase prominent businessmen

Who said crime doesn't pay 8)
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Re: If anybody's interested

Post by Dusak »

newcastle wrote:Well I don't think it was a hologram of El Chiaty participating in a round table discussion with prominent Egyptian tourism bigwigs on an Egyptian satellite channel program exactly a year ago.

I don't suppose he spends much time here, despite his role as chairman of the Travco group. He has his yacht and sundry palatial residences scattered around the world requiring his attention.

But he seems a free agent, and not on a travel ban list. Maybe it's right that he's made his peace with Sisi.....as have the Sawiris boys who are frequently seen around town, in El Gouna and in the media. With all the grants, loans etc pouring into Egypt since he took over, maybe Sisi no longer has the need, nor appetite, to chase prominent businessmen

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Re: If anybody's interested

Post by Hafiz »

Newcastle - really. I read he attended the 'Sharm' summit whilst he was still a wanted person (very strange) but thought that he invariably stayed outside Egypt. I don't think its as clear as you believe that Chaity has made his settlement - maybe they are still working out the detail of the numbers and where the decimal points are. If he had settled before devaluation and in local currency then it would have been much cheaper than now. In any event I think its true that no formal announcement of a settlement has been made although it has been made with others.

As with the Sawiris I think its true that Naguib (the North Korean businessman and former owner of Egypt's mobile phones and funder of 70 or so Parliamentary seats) hasn't set foot in Egypt since 2011/12 - but I could be wrong. In any case he is a US citizen and I think that all of his kids have been out of Egypt for a long time. The rest of his family (brothers and maybe the father is still alive) seem to spend some time in the country where most of their assets are/were - which is close to you. He seems to have problems in the US and resigned most/all of his US company positions after his North Korean stuff got exposed in the US media a year or so ago and is now focusing on interests in Brazil, West Africa and Australia - until the media there catch up with him.
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Re: If anybody's interested

Post by newcastle »

Hafiz wrote:Newcastle - really. I read he attended the 'Sharm' summit whilst he was still a wanted person (very strange) but thought that he invariably stayed outside Egypt. I don't think its as clear as you believe that Chaity has made his settlement - maybe they are still working out the detail of the numbers and where the decimal points are. If he had settled before devaluation and in local currency then it would have been much cheaper than now. In any event I think its true that no formal announcement of a settlement has been made although it has been made with others.

As with the Sawiris I think its true that Naguib (the North Korean businessman and former owner of Egypt's mobile phones and funder of 70 or so Parliamentary seats) hasn't set foot in Egypt since 2011/12 - but I could be wrong. In any case he is a US citizen and I think that all of his kids have been out of Egypt for a long time. The rest of his family (brothers and maybe the father is still alive) seem to spend some time in the country where most of their assets are/were - which is close to you. He seems to have problems in the US and resigned most/all of his US company positions after his North Korean stuff got exposed in the US media a year or so ago and is now focusing on interests in Brazil, West Africa and Australia - until the media there catch up with him.
I never suggested Chiaty has made any financial settlement with the government. I used the phrase "made his peace". It was a phrase he used...or words to that effect...in an interview some time ago. Considering how many employees his Egyptian company has, and how embedded they are in the tourist sector, I can see why the government might well wish to draw a veil over any past "misdemeanors" and simply let the matter drop.

I don't know where you get your information on the Sawiris family. Naguib abandoned his self-imposed exile after Morsi's overthrow in 2013 and spends much of his time in Egypt. He opened the El Gouna Film Festival (which he founded) last month. As you say, he holds joint US-Egyptian citizenship and resigned several US directorships to circumvent possible prosecution under US sanctions legislation. However the joint telecoms venture between DPRK and his Orascom company is unaffected.

"Former owner of Egypt's mobile phones...." ?? The family still is as far as know (Orascom) although Naguib has stepped down as CEO.....probably to concentrate on the new Luxembourg based bank he's just launched.
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Re: If anybody's interested

Post by Hafiz »

Newcastle - your info is more up to date and local than mine.

I thought NS had stayed away and now faces problems with the government because his political party was taking an independent line - whatever that means. There is also a split within his party with his MP's telling him to ... which I have interpreted to mean that he now, after his huge investment in buying 70 seats, is not locally fashionable to even those whose seats he bought. He seems to have little control over the party he once owned and doesn't even attend meetings of it. I also thought that he was pressured to sell his satellite TV channel because it wasn't following the party line and he sold it to a party favorite, Ezz, who will. My guess was that his time in Egypt was over.

Did he open Gouna - I'm surprised. The rest of his family, who are quiet about politics, have their money in fixed local assets (construction and tourism) whereas he was the telecoms Czar with offshore movements. I always thought that G. was his brother or father - but correct me if I'm wrong.

Going on just what he says - he owns/did own the telecom - and the other S.'s didn't.

With the telecom's - my guess is that his Dutch company is now controlled by/sold out to Russian interests which explains all the new cash he is throwing into gold mines in Australia and West Africa and his attempt to buy the crippled Brazilian telecom company. Who knows for certain because its all in a Jersey or Guernsey trust. In the absence of reliable local media its guess work and speculation because his companies are all private. His genius was to establish the overseas company which owned the Egyptian assets and use this as a vehicle for selling all/most of the asset to others in a market where the assets could be enforced in proper courts. There may also have been some Italian telecom assets in the pot.

One of the reasons for the resignations is that a family owned US based company, of which he was a director or shareholder, was a significant contractor to the US military which created 'conflicts' for a man with a personal relationship with a potential enemy/subject to sanctions. The US media went crazy for a few days about criminal actions against him but now seems to have gone silent. Lucky him.
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