The face of Akhenaton

Get the best advice about your holiday in Luxor.

Moderators: Horus, DJKeefy, 4u Network

User avatar
Yildez
Top Member
Top Member
Posts: 742
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:59 am
Location: Datca, Turkey
Has thanked: 5209 times
Been thanked: 852 times
Gender:
Turkey

The face of Akhenaton

Post by Yildez » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:51 pm

For the past few days Carrie and I have been discussing/arguing about Akhenaton - Carrie subscribes to the theory that he had Marfins disease and really looked like his sculptures, I believe that he introduced a very stylised form of art that reflected his religious belief, asexual, both male and female, pharaoh as a God with an appearance radically different from his people. Take your pick - reality or an artistic convention!

Yesterday we went to Blue Sky on the West Bank for lunch, and there was a young man, very tall and very thin, with a long, long nose, overbite and receding chin, and large almond shaped eyes, 1 with a cast in it. We couldn't tell if his head was elongated, as he had a huge bush of curly hair, but it could have been!

We looked at each other and agreed - we were looking at the living face of Akhenaton!!! Amazing!!

And no, we had not been drinking, just water!



User avatar
Horus
Forum Admin
Forum Admin
Posts: 7820
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:59 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 3361 times
Been thanked: 2414 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: The face of Akhenaton

Post by Horus » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:58 pm

I saw a very good TV programme about Marfans Disease and Akhenaton’s strange features and there were certainly a lot of similarities such as the elongated hands, feet, toes and fingers plus the elongated face. Certainly the way he is depicted you can put a very good case for him having the disease. However an elongated head was seen as being ‘god like’ by many cultures although not as far back as the Pharaohs unless I am mistaken. Later cultures did practice a form of head binding to deform the skull as seen with many South American mummies and depicted in Mayan glyphs.

I tend to go with the second theory that he wanted to distinguish himself as being ‘different’ and more god like although he may have had some unusual features, probably due to inbreeding and he emphasised these physical traits. If you take into account that he wanted to turn the current form of religious worship on its head and in effect to become ‘the’ figure of worship rather than deferring to another god figure Amun who was under the control of the priesthood, then it makes more sense.

By elevating himself and his family to god like stature he wrested religious control from the priests who by then (and in his fathers time) had become a powerful political faction that rivalled the Pharaoh in power. All the depictions of him show the hands radiating from the Aten and offering Ankhs to Akhenaton as if to say “All life and blessings come via you”. So I can well imagine that anyone who made such bold changes to religious convention would have no problem in depicting himself as something unique. I also wonder about the fact that the other members are all depicted in a similar way i.e. the exaggerated female body shape, OK I accept that they are mainly females being depicted, but to me it seems to be following a stylised body shape for everyone. Finally inbreeding would and can result in certain traits being passed on and of course the family relationship was extremely close, but I do wonder if everyone depicted would have had the same body and head shape. If nothing else it is a fascinating subject to explore and your own observations on the West bank show that it was at least possible to have those features.
Image

User avatar
hatusu
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: West Bank Luxor
Has thanked: 238 times
Been thanked: 517 times
Egypt

Re: The face of Akhenaton

Post by hatusu » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:16 am

Regarding the inbreeding - why was it so common amongst the royal families in Egypt? The Book of Leviticus in the Bible has a whole list of "thou shalt not marry"s so they obviously knew the dangers then, and this book was written well before Akhenatens reign.

User avatar
carrie
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 4272
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:46 am
Location: luxor
Has thanked: 2749 times
Been thanked: 5296 times
United Kingdom

Re: The face of Akhenaton

Post by carrie » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:27 am

Still common among the British Royal family.

newcastle
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6844
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 1984 times
Been thanked: 5801 times
Egypt

Re: The face of Akhenaton

Post by newcastle » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:55 am

carrie wrote:Still common among the British Royal family.
Not for the last 100 years or so.

User avatar
Yildez
Top Member
Top Member
Posts: 742
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:59 am
Location: Datca, Turkey
Has thanked: 5209 times
Been thanked: 852 times
Gender:
Turkey

Re: The face of Akhenaton

Post by Yildez » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:20 am

hatusu wrote:Regarding the inbreeding - why was it so common amongst the royal families in Egypt? The Book of Leviticus in the Bible has a whole list of "thou shalt not marry"s so they obviously knew the dangers then, and this book was written well before Akhenatens reign.
The royal blood was passed through the female line, so in order to confirm his kingship the pharaoh usually married his sister or daughter. They did NOT marry their mothers as this was expressly forbidden. Akhenaten DID marry his mother, Tiye, (some Egyptologists believe Tutankhamen was the result) his sister Sitamun ( previously married to his father Amunhotep III, and at least 3 of his daughters. Not sure if this continued once the Ramesid pharoahs took power?

User avatar
Brian Yare
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2535
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:11 pm
Location: Worcester, UK
Has thanked: 1184 times
Been thanked: 1261 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: The face of Akhenaton

Post by Brian Yare » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:37 am

This in-breeding continued through Ptolemaic times. It was, and still is, rife in European Royal Families.

User avatar
Brian Yare
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2535
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:11 pm
Location: Worcester, UK
Has thanked: 1184 times
Been thanked: 1261 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: The face of Akhenaton

Post by Brian Yare » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

newcastle wrote:
carrie wrote:Still common among the British Royal family.
Not for the last 100 years or so.
The results of generations of inbreeding are still echoing around the Royal Family. Did you see the Channel 4 documentary in 2011, The Queen's Hidden Cousins?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tva ... eview.html

Nerissa was born about 100 years ago and Katherine slightly more recently.

Katherine died in 2014, and her obituary is here:

https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey ... g-13642685

newcastle
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6844
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 1984 times
Been thanked: 5801 times
Egypt

Re: The face of Akhenaton

Post by newcastle » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:31 pm

Brian Yare wrote:
newcastle wrote:
carrie wrote:Still common among the British Royal family.
Not for the last 100 years or so.
The results of generations of inbreeding are still echoing around the Royal Family. Did you see the Channel 4 documentary in 2011, The Queen's Hidden Cousins?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tva ... eview.html

Nerissa was born about 100 years ago and Katherine slightly more recently.

Katherine died in 2014, and her obituary is here:

https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey ... g-13642685
Sorry...don't see your point.

The Bowes Lyon family were not related to our royal family ( perhaps very distantly) when the late queen mother married the Duke of York (later George VI)

What's a couple of disability issues in the Bowes Lyon got to do with anything?

newcastle
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6844
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 1984 times
Been thanked: 5801 times
Egypt

Re: The face of Akhenaton

Post by newcastle » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:41 pm

Yildez wrote:
hatusu wrote:Regarding the inbreeding - why was it so common amongst the royal families in Egypt? The Book of Leviticus in the Bible has a whole list of "thou shalt not marry"s so they obviously knew the dangers then, and this book was written well before Akhenatens reign.
The royal blood was passed through the female line, so in order to confirm his kingship the pharaoh usually married his sister or daughter. They did NOT marry their mothers as this was expressly forbidden. Akhenaten DID marry his mother, Tiye, (some Egyptologists believe Tutankhamen was the result) his sister Sitamun ( previously married to his father Amunhotep III, and at least 3 of his daughters. Not sure if this continued once the Ramesid pharoahs took power?

Surely this matrilineal theory was debunked years ago?

Several prominent pharaohs - Amenhotep iii Rameses ii etc - appear to have married commoners.

Keeping all the goodies within the family and minimising challenges to inheritance from " outside" seems a more plausible reason for incest than any "divine female blood line"

User avatar
Yildez
Top Member
Top Member
Posts: 742
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:59 am
Location: Datca, Turkey
Has thanked: 5209 times
Been thanked: 852 times
Gender:
Turkey

Re: The face of Akhenaton

Post by Yildez » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:55 pm

newcastle wrote:
Yildez wrote:
hatusu wrote:Regarding the inbreeding - why was it so common amongst the royal families in Egypt? The Book of Leviticus in the Bible has a whole list of "thou shalt not marry"s so they obviously knew the dangers then, and this book was written well before Akhenatens reign.
The royal blood was passed through the female line, so in order to confirm his kingship the pharaoh usually married his sister or daughter. They did NOT marry their mothers as this was expressly forbidden. Akhenaten DID marry his mother, Tiye, (some Egyptologists believe Tutankhamen was the result) his sister Sitamun ( previously married to his father Amunhotep III, and at least 3 of his daughters. Not sure if this continued once the Ramesid pharoahs took power?

Surely this matrilineal theory was debunked years ago?

Several prominent pharaohs - Amenhotep iii Rameses ii etc - appear to have married commoners.

Keeping all the goodies within the family and minimising challenges to inheritance from " outside" seems a more plausible reason for incest than any "divine female blood line"
Yes, most pharaohs married other women and had children with them, of whom some sons became pharaoh themselves. Thutmosis I was married to Ahmose, had Hatshepsut, who married her half brother Thutmosis II, but only had a daughter by him. Her stepson Thutmosis III possibly married her daughter, but there is no firm evidence for this.

User avatar
carrie
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 4272
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:46 am
Location: luxor
Has thanked: 2749 times
Been thanked: 5296 times
United Kingdom

Re: The face of Akhenaton

Post by carrie » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:14 pm

I thought Phillip and Elizabeth were related, perhaps not so closely as the pharaohs but still same family ancestry.

User avatar
HEPZIBAH
Luxor4u God
Luxor4u God
Posts: 11253
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 3003 times
Been thanked: 4193 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: The face of Akhenaton

Post by HEPZIBAH » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:35 pm

carrie wrote:I thought Phillip and Elizabeth were related, perhaps not so closely as the pharaohs but still same family ancestry.
They are both very, very distant cousins - being great, great, grandchildren of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert - the Queen Elizabeth down the male line ie her father, and Prince Philip down the female line ie his mother.
Queen Victoria had so many children, and they married in to many of the European Royal families. I think the gene pool has probably been much diluted in the last fifty years - in the UK and probably the rest of Europe too.

https://www.britroyals.com/royaltree.asp
Image Experience is not what happens to you;
it is what you do with what happens to you.
-Aldous Huxley

newcastle
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 6844
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am
Has thanked: 1984 times
Been thanked: 5801 times
Egypt

Re: The face of Akhenaton

Post by newcastle » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:42 pm

carrie wrote:I thought Phillip and Elizabeth were related, perhaps not so closely as the pharaohs but still same family ancestry.
They are 3rd cousins via Victoria . And Philip was not regarded as a suitable consort by most of the Court.

The only other instance I can think of of a Royal marrying a relative - in the last 100 years or so - is the former Dukeof Kent (son of George V) who married Princess Marina of Greece. I guess they were distantly related. ( 2nd cousins)

Otherwise, our current Royals have stayed clear of marrying relations.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
  • Was the city of Akhenaton built with child labour?
    by newcastle » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:56 am » in History and Archaeology
    6 Replies
    112 Views
    Last post by newcastle
    Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:34 pm
  • Face painting anyoune?
    by newcastle » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:23 pm » in General Discussions and Rants
    1 Replies
    64 Views
    Last post by HEPZIBAH
    Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:47 pm
  • Print Prices clearly....or face the consequences!
    by newcastle » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:06 pm » in Know Egypt
    0 Replies
    76 Views
    Last post by newcastle
    Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:06 pm
  • Egypt's street vendors face new restrictions
    by DJKeefy » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:36 pm » in Know Egypt
    3 Replies
    154 Views
    Last post by Dusak
    Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:56 am
  • Guide: The Challenges the Morsi Administration Must Face
    by DJKeefy » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:53 am » in Know Egypt
    1 Replies
    157 Views
    Last post by Chocolate Eclair
    Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:05 am