NOW is the time.

Get the best advice about your holiday in Luxor.

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Zooropa »

Who2 wrote:I paid 98 quid inc flight & 10 days in the Emilio when I first came here.
Doesn't mean I am of less intelligence, what I am addressing is the 'kiss me quick and flag t-shirt mentalities I rail against them, always have always will. You all know them, we British are well travelled these-days going back over 40 years when travel got cheap and one's intelligence was enhanced as was Blue Nun and Bullsblood and garlic... :cool:
"Be honest 1970 Torremolinas & Lloret de Mar, fish & chips and Watneys Red Barrel 45 quid all in....'a bargin innit ?

Ah, so its not a class thing with you Dr, its an intelligence thing.

I quite agree, shoot anyone who does not match your IQ.

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What what.



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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Zooropa »

I don't think the wonders of Luxor or anywhere else should be off limits to those that cant afford "Monte Carlo" prices.

What makes those who can so special?

They say that education is the best way out of poverty, bring them over I say.

If only to see the look on the goods Doctor's face!

Now, where is my "I Love Luxor" t-shirt...

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Glyphdoctor »

Dusak wrote:I've had and known a great deal of ''the well off'' in my time as friends as a business owner in the UK thirty years prior to coming here and on the whole they tend to be tight wads. They will spend out on their own 'bling' to turn heads, buy expensive cars and homes but will not spend on the streets as such while on holiday. Yes they will stay in the ''look what we can afford'' hotels, but do nothing for the local businesses. The so called working class holiday maker, and I know many that used to come here, spend their hard earned money without much thought because they knew how to enjoy themselves, thus benefiting those that need it the most, the ordinary curbside trader and offers from the service providers. The kiss me quick brigade may be disliked by some, but those very same people made many seaside resorts both in the UK and the likes of Spain very rich countries over a very short period of time. Standing around in the lounge of the Winter Palace joining in the 'old boy' network conversations while quaffing back their G&T's do not feed the tourist city's main population.
You may have a point to some extent, but then again, that's only because there is really very little for a rich tourist to spend on in Luxor anyway besides the Winter Palace-no trendy restaurants, high end shops, extreme sports, unique tours, luxury bed and breakfast with extensive amenities, etc. Chicken and egg comes to mind.

And by rich traveler, we're not necessarily talking about British either. I saw some stat that said the average Chinese tourist traveling abroad spends $16k. That's average, not top spenders.

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Who2 »

if you like them so much Z go live with them, but keep them away from me, I have lived long and hard enough not to have to tolerate fools or people who misguidedly fly their flag.... 'Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by education."
-Bertrand Russell....
"The Salvation of Mankind lies in making everything the responsibility of All"
Sophocles.

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Glyphdoctor »

Zooropa wrote:I don't think the wonders of Luxor or anywhere else should be off limits to those that cant afford "Monte Carlo" prices.

What makes those who can so special?
It's not about you. Egypt owes you nothing. It's not your God-given right to a cheap vacation wherever you want to take a vacation. A destination's establishments have the right to set their prices at whatever rate they want and that the market can bear. You want one week in Luxor? Well, the people of Luxor have to live in Luxor year round. A lot of those cruise ship employees are earning 500LE/month so that you can enjoy your "cheap" holiday. What makes YOU so special compared to them? Cheap package tourism is exploitation, plain and simple. I'm not blaming the tourists because most probably aren't even aware of how those who serve them suffer, but it is still a fact of how things are. And Egypt, with its limited water, electric, and fragile tombs, can't afford to waste them.

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Chocolate Eclair »

There are a lot earning less than 500le per month as well G. Regarding prices, when a place, and it does not matter where in the world it is, gets plenty of income people always want more and greed sets in, when that place collapses, no one considers that prices may be the problem so they fall into a catch 22 position, so when there are no guests they keep the prices up to try and keep the profits up, then they fail. In a recession period, which history tells us has a 5-10 year period, companies have to fight for business and compete meaning profits do fall, but a small piece of the cake is better than the crumbs.

I am not talking about Hotels here, I am talking about package holiday companies, I do not know if this is correct or not, but someone told me that over 70% of a package holiday is made up from flights, Companies overheads, staff payments, profits etc. So, what is left to pay for the destination hotel? a few peanuts and the promise of more business?

Airport taxes are so high now its a disgrace and they are imposed on the length of the flight, aviation fuel especially I suppose in, sorry to say the word Bennu, Europe is taxed too much to discourage flying, and by doing so saving the world. Austerity has hit the people of, sorry to use the word a second time Bennu, Europe so much that everyone is looking for a bargain. Long gone are the 42 pound a week holiday to Benidorm, (My first flight overseas), and long gone are places that cost so much to get to, unless they are something special, and people want to go to them.

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Dusak »

From what I have observed, being an ex-business person, the local business owners here are short on intelligent marketing skills. They are stuck in the what used to be rules of engagement. Rules and selling formats handed down from father to sons. They just do not know the meaning of diversification, they stay put, hoping that things will return to the good old days tomorrow, which they will not. Here in Karnak a new hotel is being constructed, my friend pointed out an old hotel in one of the back streets of Luxor that is being gutted to create a new one. Work has re-started on the one near the HSBC, and also further along near the court house. What is the point? They can never recoup the costs of these endeavors and not all can be calculated tax losses as is the case of the new Hilton, or so I was told.

GD suggests creating a high end spend market to encourage the richer tourist. Before the revolution that already existed with the tourist rip off prices quoted on all you showed interest in, especially on gold. They were always ready to quote the sharp rise in gold prices when you were idly passing your time looking at a piece, but failing to mention that the items in the shop were bought/created years ago when gold was far cheaper. And they started to import a lot from Italy but sell it at a high profit margin, or attempted to. All tourist related shops and businesses are now struggling, but the local non tourist ones are still quite healthy with new ones opening every week. Does that not say something? To me it says close all tourist related shops and go local, then there is no need to use the now boring localized adage ''I need to feed my family.''
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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Darkstar »

Who2 wrote:You talk of a different kind of tourist here, educated, interesting and enquiring minds, 'the traveler and not the tourist the latter that eventually bought Luxor to it's knees. I'm glad the scales tipped back to the enquiring-mind those were the heydays of Luxor, it will return it's just 'the the margate mob will go back to benidorm or sharm or florida,
"f**in good riddance to them and not before time, I for one do not want the tourist industry back here. 'god forbid 30 years was long enough**.... :cool:
Ps: and anybody with a business better get their entrepreneurial skills in damn quick order or go under. "That's Life!
Pss: ** I also include the sex tourism in that as well.....
Bad news Who2, Thomson are starting their holidays to Luxor again in November this year, hopefully I will be coming with them :D I agree with you about the ' kiss me quick, while I puke cos of all the beer I drunk in the heat' brigade, but hopefully they will have found a new cheap holiday destination to ruin. On our other visits we have always come on a package deal, but; once we get here it's blow off the thieving reps and make our own way, we use local people for any trips or visits, we eat at local places and spend with the street traders. So in reality the kind of visitors like us are putting money back into the local economy.
Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit.

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Bombay »

Darkstar wrote:
Who2 wrote:You talk of a different kind of tourist here, educated, interesting and enquiring minds, 'the traveler and not the tourist the latter that eventually bought Luxor to it's knees. I'm glad the scales tipped back to the enquiring-mind those were the heydays of Luxor, it will return it's just 'the the margate mob will go back to benidorm or sharm or florida,
"f**in good riddance to them and not before time, I for one do not want the tourist industry back here. 'god forbid 30 years was long enough**.... :cool:
Ps: and anybody with a business better get their entrepreneurial skills in damn quick order or go under. "That's Life!
Pss: ** I also include the sex tourism in that as well.....
Bad news Who2, Thomson are starting their holidays to Luxor again in November this year, hopefully I will be coming with them :D I agree with you about the ' kiss me quick, while I puke cos of all the beer I drunk in the heat' brigade, but hopefully they will have found a new cheap holiday destination to ruin. On our other visits we have always come on a package deal, but; once we get here it's blow off the thieving reps and make our own way, we use local people for any trips or visits, we eat at local places and spend with the street traders. So in reality the kind of visitors like us are putting money back into the local economy.
Thomson started their holidays to Luxor on 5th March from London. They are joined from Manchester from 5th November. In 15 years I have not seen or served anyone of the type you describe above traveling to Luxor, maybe one or two expats but they too have been very rare.

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by BENNU »

C wrote:Airport taxes are so high now its a disgrace and they are imposed on the length of the flight, aviation fuel especially I suppose in, sorry to say the word Bennu, Europe is taxed too much to discourage flying, and by doing so saving the world. Austerity has hit the people of, sorry to use the word a second time Bennu, Europe so much that everyone is looking for a bargain.
I have only asked if fellow forum members from UK consider themselves non Europeans, because I was curious and confused. Most of my friends are from UK so it is nice to know. I got my answer.

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Zooropa »

Glyphdoctor wrote:
Zooropa wrote:I don't think the wonders of Luxor or anywhere else should be off limits to those that cant afford "Monte Carlo" prices.

What makes those who can so special?
It's not about you. Egypt owes you nothing. It's not your God-given right to a cheap vacation wherever you want to take a vacation. A destination's establishments have the right to set their prices at whatever rate they want and that the market can bear. You want one week in Luxor? Well, the people of Luxor have to live in Luxor year round. A lot of those cruise ship employees are earning 500LE/month so that you can enjoy your "cheap" holiday. What makes YOU so special compared to them? Cheap package tourism is exploitation, plain and simple. I'm not blaming the tourists because most probably aren't even aware of how those who serve them suffer, but it is still a fact of how things are. And Egypt, with its limited water, electric, and fragile tombs, can't afford to waste them.

I didn't say it was about me, nor did I say Egypt owed me anything.

I was making the point that everyone, regardless of class has a right to pursue what ever they want in life.

And if they manage to save enough to be able to do it they should be allowed to do so free from snooty people looking down on them, a lot of which came from the same humble beginnings as the people they are sneering at.

At the end of the day if there never had been any tourism for the last 50 years how many of these 500 le a month people would have had jobs elsewhere?

And what if I deliberately went "high end" are you suggesting that the local employees of these more expensive holidays are better paid and less exploited than those employed by Thomson and the like?

Crap.

In any case, not that it matters, I don't take package trips to Luxor in the true sense of the word and have not done since the first two trips I made.

Yes I have a local agent put together the reservations but when in Luxor im not part of a package tour and any trips and services I partake in whilst there are booked directly with local providers.


The reason why Egypt is short on the things you mention and the reason why there is poverty and a lack of education is not down to tourists, its the fault of successive governments doing a poor job and being corrupt and allowing the tourism industry to do a pretty poor job of providing a decent living to the people they employ.

Its no coincidence that the best living conditions, employment rights and opportunities are to be had in countries with functioning democracies and lower levels of corruption.

The locals also have to accept that their refusal to change their ways, as Dusak points out has contributed to the attitude that tourists now have of them.

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by newcastle »

Thomson are showing a week at the Steigenberger, B & B, inc. flight from Gatwick 14th May for 350 quid (based on couple). Now THAT sounds ok....and they'll presumably eat out & have a bit of dosh to spare for the odd trinket or tomb visit.

It'll be interesting to see what the take up is.

BTW: Memo to Thomson : the May temp in Luxor is NOT 22C....bloody liars !!

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Darkstar »

Bombay wrote:
Darkstar wrote:
Who2 wrote:You talk of a different kind of tourist here, educated, interesting and enquiring minds, 'the traveler and not the tourist the latter that eventually bought Luxor to it's knees. I'm glad the scales tipped back to the enquiring-mind those were the heydays of Luxor, it will return it's just 'the the margate mob will go back to benidorm or sharm or florida,
"f**in good riddance to them and not before time, I for one do not want the tourist industry back here. 'god forbid 30 years was long enough**.... :cool:
Ps: and anybody with a business better get their entrepreneurial skills in damn quick order or go under. "That's Life!
Pss: ** I also include the sex tourism in that as well.....
Bad news Who2, Thomson are starting their holidays to Luxor again in November this year, hopefully I will be coming with them :D I agree with you about the ' kiss me quick, while I puke cos of all the beer I drunk in the heat' brigade, but hopefully they will have found a new cheap holiday destination to ruin. On our other visits we have always come on a package deal, but; once we get here it's blow off the thieving reps and make our own way, we use local people for any trips or visits, we eat at local places and spend with the street traders. So in reality the kind of visitors like us are putting money back into the local economy.
Thomson started their holidays to Luxor on 5th March from London. They are joined from Manchester from 5th November. In 15 years I have not seen or served anyone of the type you describe above traveling to Luxor, maybe one or two expats but they too have been very rare.
Point taken Bombay, I over exaggerated(sp?) to make a point, that not all package holidaymakers should stick to Margate or Blackpool, and that they do put money into the local economy. Maybe certain ex-pats should come down from their ivory towers and smell the coffee. :) We are not all scum.
Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit.

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Dusak »

Give me the opportunity any day Darkstar to join a table full of working class hero's in say the Regal Lounge here against those that you mention. Such a myriad of topics and opinions against ''I did/have/make and spend.'' [but then again, you wouldn't see that sort, (toffs) darken the Regal doorstep.] As for expats and ivory towers, luckily we only have one or two and their foundations are already beginning to sink, so should soon be on the same level as the rest of us 'kiss me quick' plebs.
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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by HEPZIBAH »

newcastle wrote:Thomson are showing a week at the Steigenberger, B & B, inc. flight from Gatwick 14th May for 350 quid (based on couple). Now THAT sounds ok....and they'll presumably eat out & have a bit of dosh to spare for the odd trinket or tomb visit.

It'll be interesting to see what the take up is.

BTW: Memo to Thomson : the May temp in Luxor is NOT 22C....bloody liars !!
Not a bad price until you read that nasty little bit '(based on couple)' . I won't bother to check it out but you can be sure that the price for single will be considerably more than that. This, to me is what is so wrong with so many package holidays. Often they are advertised at what looks at a good price per person and it's not until later you get the hit and find out that the good rate is based on two sharing. If only there were better price availabilities to singles there would be a wider market of potential clients.
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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by newcastle »

HEPZIBAH wrote:
newcastle wrote:Thomson are showing a week at the Steigenberger, B & B, inc. flight from Gatwick 14th May for 350 quid (based on couple). Now THAT sounds ok....and they'll presumably eat out & have a bit of dosh to spare for the odd trinket or tomb visit.

It'll be interesting to see what the take up is.

BTW: Memo to Thomson : the May temp in Luxor is NOT 22C....bloody liars !!
Not a bad price until you read that nasty little bit '(based on couple)' . I won't bother to check it out but you can be sure that the price for single will be considerably more than that. This, to me is what is so wrong with so many package holidays. Often they are advertised at what looks at a good price per person and it's not until later you get the hit and find out that the good rate is based on two sharing. If only there were better price availabilities to singles there would be a wider market of potential clients.
Not bad?? Bloody cheap I'd say....you'd do well to get a flight only for that price.

But you're right of course about "singles'....I've been one myself since 1985. But although the couples get a better price per capita they do have to put up with sharing their holiday with someone they might prefer not to :lol:

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Bombay »

HEPZIBAH wrote:
newcastle wrote:Thomson are showing a week at the Steigenberger, B & B, inc. flight from Gatwick 14th May for 350 quid (based on couple). Now THAT sounds ok....and they'll presumably eat out & have a bit of dosh to spare for the odd trinket or tomb visit.

It'll be interesting to see what the take up is.

BTW: Memo to Thomson : the May temp in Luxor is NOT 22C....bloody liars !!
Not a bad price until you read that nasty little bit '(based on couple)' . I won't bother to check it out but you can be sure that the price for single will be considerably more than that. This, to me is what is so wrong with so many package holidays. Often they are advertised at what looks at a good price per person and it's not until later you get the hit and find out that the good rate is based on two sharing. If only there were better price availabilities to singles there would be a wider market of potential clients.
I never found you get a hint as just about all package holidays are based on 2 sharing often with single supplement available. Sometimes its cheaper to pay the single supplement as the flight only can nearly be the same price as the package and then you still got to book a hotel.

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Bombay »

Darkstar wrote:Point taken Bombay, I over exaggerated(sp?) to make a point, that not all package holidaymakers should stick to Margate or Blackpool, and that they do put money into the local economy. Maybe certain ex-pats should come down from their ivory towers and smell the coffee. :) We are not all scum.
I agree 100% never understand why move into a tourist town and moan about it having tourists visit not that we do at the moment :D

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Bombay »

Moving to one and it not having any tourists now thats something to moan about :lol: :br

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Re: NOW is the time.

Post by Brian Yare »

newcastle wrote:Thomson are showing a week at the Steigenberger, B & B, inc. flight from Gatwick 14th May for 350 quid (based on couple). Now THAT sounds ok....and they'll presumably eat out & have a bit of dosh to spare for the odd trinket or tomb visit.

It'll be interesting to see what the take up is.

BTW: Memo to Thomson : the May temp in Luxor is NOT 22C....bloody liars !!
The Thomson's reps will frighten the s#it out of them during the transfer and at the welcome meeting. They will be frightened into not leaving the hotel except on a Thomson's package. And if they should venture as far as the hotel door the caleche and taxi drivers will **** them off. They will eat full board at their hotel. Mark my words!

If there are no power cuts the May temperature in the hotel rooms may be 22C, with the AC on full blast.

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