Is it really because of the travel warnings?

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Who2 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:48 pm

It could be worse, You could have gone to Uganda, and try the 'Idi Amin steak burger they still eat people down there...'here we have flushing toilets....:cool:


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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Bombay » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:57 pm

Glyphdoctor wrote:
Bombay wrote:Reading the article proves it to be mostly nonsense any tourist traveling to Luxor knows the Travel Advice is there because easyJet told them while they were still flying and the others were told when their holiday was cancelled.
If they had already booked, then they had made up their mind to go to Egypt, warning or no warning, and if they contacted EasyJet to book and found Egypt not available, they had already made up their mind to go. Granted, EasyJet dropping Egypt is part of the problem, but by time someone calls EasyJet, they've already made their decision to go.

That said, TUI is doing quite well this season since they dropped Egypt. It has not impacted their bottom line, except in a positive way, so that shows Egypt is replaceable without harming the foreign tour operators.

But then that shows the mistake of the Egyptian tourism industry relying on others to do the marketing and selling for them, when those others have other products that they can sell instead without losing money. Egypt is just a commodity to them.
TUI has never dropped Egypt they are still one of the biggest tour operators to Egypt they did not drop Luxor they were prevented from continuing their programme. TUI Thomsons are the only major UK company to still have Luxor on the website and in the brochures.
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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Bombay » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:57 pm

Glyphdoctor wrote:
Bombay wrote:Reading the article proves it to be mostly nonsense any tourist traveling to Luxor knows the Travel Advice is there because easyJet told them while they were still flying and the others were told when their holiday was cancelled.
If they had already booked, then they had made up their mind to go to Egypt, warning or no warning, and if they contacted EasyJet to book and found Egypt not available, they had already made up their mind to go. Granted, EasyJet dropping Egypt is part of the problem, but by time someone calls EasyJet, they've already made their decision to go.

That said, TUI is doing quite well this season since they dropped Egypt. It has not impacted their bottom line, except in a positive way, so that shows Egypt is replaceable without harming the foreign tour operators.

But then that shows the mistake of the Egyptian tourism industry relying on others to do the marketing and selling for them, when those others have other products that they can sell instead without losing money. Egypt is just a commodity to them.
TUI has never dropped Egypt they are still one of the biggest tour operators to Egypt they did not drop Luxor they were prevented from continuing their programme. TUI Thomsons are the only major UK company to still have Luxor on the website and in the brochures.
R

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Chocolate Eclair » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:17 pm

I hope what you posted is not true Glyph, because to me using the excuse its a Muslim Country is a disgrace, and only goes to show how small minded some people can be.

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Bombay » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:40 pm

Chocolate Eclair wrote:I hope what you posted is not true Glyph, because to me using the excuse its a Muslim Country is a disgrace, and only goes to show how small minded some people can be.
A lot of it is unfortunately true.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/24204742

Quarter of young British people 'do not trust Muslims'

More than a quarter of 18 to 24-year-olds in Britain do not trust Muslims, a BBC Radio 1 Newsbeat poll suggests.

Of the 1,000 young people questioned, 28% said Britain would be better off with fewer Muslims, while 44% said Muslims did not share the same values as the rest of the population.

Some 60% thought the British public had a negative image of Muslims.

An adviser on anti-Muslim hatred said the findings suggested young people needed to mix more.

Akeela Ahmed, from the Cross-government Working Group on Anti-Muslim Hatred, said: "These findings indicate that we need to ensure young people are mixing at local levels and that they're working on projects together so that people can get to know Muslims and vice versa."

Made up of civil servants, academics, and members of the Islamic community, the group was launched last year and its job is to advise the government on how to tackle prejudice.

Its members said prejudice among young people was particularly worrying because they were thought to be more liberal than older age groups.

Other findings in the Comres survey, conducted in June, include:

When asked about religious groups 27% said they didn't trust Muslims, 16% said they didn't trust Hindus or Sikhs, 15% said they didn't trust Jewish people, that figure was 13% for Buddhists and 12% said they didn't trust Christians
Young people place the blame for Islamophobia in Britain on terror groups abroad (26%), the media (23%) and UK Muslims who have committed acts of terror (21%)
Only three in 10 (29%) think Muslims are doing enough to combat extremism in their communities. However, overall young people are more likely to agree (48%) than disagree (27%) that Islam is a peaceful religion
Young people are divided over whether or not immigration is good for Britain overall. Two-fifths (42%) say it is a good thing but more than a third disagree (35%)
Professor Matthew Goodwin, another one of the group's members, said: "Every survey that I have run, and surveys run by my academic colleagues, makes it quite clear that a significant proportion of the British population hold negative views of Islam, and by extension British Muslim communities."

The government group says constant negative media coverage on Islam is shaping people's views. A report submitted to the Leveson inquiry into press standards last year concluded there was "a serious and systemic problem of racist, anti-Muslim reporting within sections of the British media"

The Unitas Report, which was submitted to the Leveson inquiry, suggests 40-60% of mosques and Islamic centres have been attacked at least once since the attacks on 11 September 2001 that killed almost 3,000 people in New York, the Washington DC area and Pennsylvania.

Figures from the Metropolitan Police released in August suggest there has been a 61% rise in anti-Muslim crime in London over the past year.

There are also claims the killing of Fusilier Lee Rigby in May has fuelled anti-Muslim feelings. The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) has also said there has been an "unprecedented escalation of violence" since his death.

'I felt violated'
Anisha Patel, a practising Muslim, wears a black full-face veil and was recently attacked by two men who pulled off her daughter's veil.

"The kind of comments, the kind of looks and stares that we're experiencing at this moment in time is very different to what it was before," she said.

"They've become much more hostile, much more bitter, and much more aggressive in nature. It's actually got to the stage where I'm beginning to feel that I want to stay in my house."

She added: "At the end of the day this is a piece of cloth. It can neither harm anyone or do anything to anyone or do anything to anybody. If you're going to add all the things on to it and say this is a terrorist or whatever they now think we are, it is just ignorance. Absolute ignorance."

A 20-year-old woman who does not want to be named told Newsbeat she does not trust or like Muslims.

"When you hear about terrorism, more often than not it is Muslims that have carried it out. I just feel they're all out to do that, they're all the same.

"If we went to their country we can't wear shorts and a crop top, yet they come here and cover themselves up. It's almost like they're forcing their religion on to us", she said.

The government says it is also funding a service that records Islamophobic crime and supports victims. But some members of the group do not think ministers are committed to the project, and say that getting a meeting with one is near to impossible.

Yasmin Qureshi, Labour MP for Bolton South East and a Muslim, says the group is just a PR exercise.

"It's a kneejerk reaction. 'Oh something happens and we must do something about it so let's set up a group,' which is not a bad idea, but are they taking on board what the group is saying and implementing what it's saying?" she said.

A Department for Communities and Local Government spokesman said Minister for Faith and Communities Baroness Warsi was fully supportive of the group's work and had attended their last meeting.

"The message from this government is unequivocal - there is no place for anti-Muslim hatred or any kind of hatred in Britain, and we are committed to tackling this unacceptable scourge," he added.

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Stevepj » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:42 pm

So it's the constant negative reporting of Islam in the media which shapes peoples views of the faith? Not the blowing up of churches in Pakistan and Nigeria or the mass slaughter in Nairobi or at a funeral procession in Iraq that influences people. Got it now. Denial isn't only a river in Africa. :o

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Bombay » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:18 pm

Stevepj wrote:So it's the constant negative reporting of Islam in the media which shapes peoples views of the faith? Not the blowing up of churches in Pakistan and Nigeria or the mass slaughter in Nairobi or at a funeral procession in Iraq that influences people. Got it now. Denial isn't only a river in Africa. :o
Or being hacked to death on the streets of London.

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by A-Four » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:48 am

I do so get fed up of the negative drivel that gets written on here about the present situation in Luxor.

The FCO's statement on Luxor stands, and this alone is the reason why there are no tourists there, as for the independent tourist, as a rule spend only two or three days in Luxor, then move on. Most have a very excellent guide book, which as a rule they have carefully read long before they have even set foot in Egypt, then use this say guide book for quick reference for the places they will see on a daily basis. Each day they rise at 5-30 a.m., and have seen half of the WB before most ex-pats have even got out of bed. In the evening most will eat at their hotels, before going off to sleep.

With regards to security in Egypt, Assuit has always been regarded as Egypt's Northern Ireland, more nearer home, 25 years ago a famous American guide book said that if you entered any area around El Tarrife on the WB, you would probably be shot at by one of the locals,..............what rubbish.

With regards to future tourism in Luxor, I stand by my written work on here after my last visit, which I called, As I See It,....... this will be the future of tourism in Luxor,..................................like it or not.

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Dusak » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:02 am

As soon as the term Muslim is mentioned, on the news, the printed media, then the word terrorist is unusually attached to it somewhere along the line. What people fail to realize is that millions of innocent Muslims have been systematically persecuted and destroyed for hundreds of years up to this present time. Just as an example, in Cambodia in the 1970's over half a million were slaughtered at the hands of the Khmer Rouge with 132 of their Mosques destroyed, just for being Muslim. In the great schema of things, Muslims, in my opinion, kill no more that other religions or none religious peoples that continually kill Muslims. They all get tared with the same brush.

As for a quarter of the younger generation not trusting them in the UK, the said same younger generation trust what the street says to trust or tweet and twitter their way though popular polls set up by the ignorant. And its highly likely that most of them have never met a Muslim, never spoken to one to hear an others point of view, never heard of Islam, most thinking that they were some new rap group and wouldn't know a Muslim if they fell over one in the street. If the hacking to death in the London street was perpetrated by say, a Chinese person, it would be viewed by most as another example as another unwanted Chinese import. Give these people a brake, don't throw out all the apples just cos a couple have gone bad.
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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by pdmlynek » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:53 am

Bombay wrote:
Chocolate Eclair wrote:I hope what you posted is not true Glyph, because to me using the excuse its a Muslim Country is a disgrace, and only goes to show how small minded some people can be.
A lot of it is unfortunately true.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/24204742

Quarter of young British people 'do not trust Muslims'

More than a quarter of 18 to 24-year-olds in Britain do not trust Muslims, a BBC Radio 1 Newsbeat poll suggests.

Of the 1,000 young people questioned, 28% said Britain would be better off with fewer Muslims, while 44% said Muslims did not share the same values as the rest of the population.

Some 60% thought the British public had a negative image of Muslims.
...
Other findings in the Comres survey, conducted in June, include:

When asked about religious groups 27% said they didn't trust Muslims, 16% said they didn't trust Hindus or Sikhs, 15% said they didn't trust Jewish people, that figure was 13% for Buddhists and 12% said they didn't trust Christians
Young people place the blame for Islamophobia in Britain on terror groups abroad (26%), the media (23%) and UK Muslims who have committed acts of terror (21%)
Only three in 10 (29%) think Muslims are doing enough to combat extremism in their communities. However, overall young people are more likely to agree (48%) than disagree (27%) that Islam is a peaceful religion
Young people are divided over whether or not immigration is good for Britain overall. Two-fifths (42%) say it is a good thing but more than a third disagree (35%)
Professor Matthew Goodwin, another one of the group's members, said: "Every survey that I have run, and surveys run by my academic colleagues, makes it quite clear that a significant proportion of the British population hold negative views of Islam, and by extension British Muslim communities."
...
To be perfectly honest, these are actually pretty good numbers for Muslims. In most of other parts of Europe (e.g., Central or Eastern Europe), there would be about 90% mistrust of Muslims. Great Britain, even with these numbers, is a beacon of freedom for a lot of Muslims, as opposed to most places on Earth.

It is very unfortunate that Muslim get such a bad rap. When it comes to Islamic terrorism, I am not really worried about the extremists blowing things up. Extremists come from all sorts of backgrounds. What I am really worried about is the fact that after some Islamic extremist does blow something up in the West, that there is not a protest or a swell in the Muslim community against such an act. Maybe there is, but I certainly do not see it, as I see it when extremists of other stripes blow something up. The deafening silence of moderate Muslims speaks volumes. It is almost as "oh, sh*t, there has been a bombing by a Muslim; now we'll be persecuted by the cops more than ever!" instead of saying "oh, sh*t, those poor people who were hurt; I wonder what I can do to help them, and how can I help in combating these terrorists?"

I am an experienced traveler, but a newbie to the Middle East.

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by pdmlynek » Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:58 am

A-Four wrote:I do so get fed up of the negative drivel that gets written on here about the present situation in Luxor.

...as for the independent tourist, as a rule spend only two or three days in Luxor, then move on. Most have a very excellent guide book, which as a rule they have carefully read long before they have even set foot in Egypt, then use this say guide book for quick reference for the places they will see on a daily basis. Each day they rise at 5-30 a.m., and have seen half of the WB before most ex-pats have even got out of bed. In the evening most will eat at their hotels, before going off to sleep.
...
Sorry, but I don't understand. What you are describing is close to what we'll likely do. Do you see a problem with this?
I am an experienced traveler, but a newbie to the Middle East.

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by A-Four » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:21 am

pdmlynek wrote:
A-Four wrote:I do so get fed up of the negative drivel that gets written on here about the present situation in Luxor.

...as for the independent tourist, as a rule spend only two or three days in Luxor, then move on. Most have a very excellent guide book, which as a rule they have carefully read long before they have even set foot in Egypt, then use this say guide book for quick reference for the places they will see on a daily basis. Each day they rise at 5-30 a.m., and have seen half of the WB before most ex-pats have even got out of bed. In the evening most will eat at their hotels, before going off to sleep.
...
Sorry, but I don't understand. What you are describing is close to what we'll likely do. Do you see a problem with this?
No Pdmlynek, where I write here, this is for people, which there are so few these days, who travel through Egypt and then on to Sudan and so on, mainly these days they are gap year students. For your interest I have written else where on this forum.

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by pdmlynek » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:47 am

A-Four wrote: No Pdmlynek, where I write here, this is for people, which there are so few these days, who travel through Egypt and then on to Sudan and so on, mainly these days they are gap year students. For your interest I have written else where on this forum.
Thanks A4! I understand that a lot of locals in the tourist industry do not like them too much. "They travel with one pair of short and 20 dollars in their pocket, and they don't change either of them."
I am an experienced traveler, but a newbie to the Middle East.

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Ruby Slippers » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:51 am

To get back to the original question - in my case, yes it is! Unfortunately, until the FO change their advice, I can't get travel insurance that will cover me and DH, and at our age, we dare not travel uninsured. I'm not talking possible harm from terrorist activity or injuries of that ilk, just plain and simple possible health problems which could occur. We are both in fairly good health and don't anticipate immediate problems, but you never know what's round the corner, and it could end up costing our family big time if we were selfish enough to go without insurance. :td

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:03 am

The locals can understand that students have a limited budget and often have come to learn about Egyptian culture and they respect that. What they don't understand and don't like are older people who are cheapskates.

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Dusak » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:26 pm

Glyphdoctor wrote:The locals can understand that students have a limited budget and often have come to learn about Egyptian culture and they respect that. What they don't understand and don't like are older people who are cheapskates.
I have to disagree with you on this one. It is not a case of being a cheapskate, it's a case, for a lot of them, living and holidaying within their means. This goes for expats here as well as tourists. We, the Caucasians, are, and always will be, viewed as walking ATM's. Perhaps they don't like the fact that it is getting more difficult to rip the elderly off as it was in the past years. They do not, and never will understand the old adage of never biting the hand that feeds them.
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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Who2 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:24 pm

Having all my life been a bit of a 'chancer, I decided when old and the going gets really tough, I'll pop into a bank with a sawn-off, get nicked and end up in HM Prison Ford, Ford, West Sussex, looking after my veg plot and running their film nights....

Do you know there has been a five-fold increase in the number of centenarians during the last three decades.
In 1981, there were just 2,420 people aged 100 or over living in England and Wales.
By 2012, the figure had shot up to 12,320, to quote: 'a clever bas***d
"Which in all, could sound a bit 'dodgy for my West Bank graveyard idea..
So 'nil desperandum, unless you mean it....:cool:
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Ps: I bet Mrs Queen is getting concerned with all that Maundy money she is having to 'shell out each year..
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££££....Cash paid for your maundy money sets ring our hotline today......
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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:16 pm

It is very unfortunate that Muslim get such a bad rap. When it comes to Islamic terrorism, I am not really worried about the extremists blowing things up. Extremists come from all sorts of backgrounds. What I am really worried about is the fact that after some Islamic extremist does blow something up in the West, that there is not a protest or a swell in the Muslim community against such an act. Maybe there is, but I certainly do not see it, as I see it when extremists of other stripes blow something up. The deafening silence of moderate Muslims speaks volumes. It is almost as "oh, sh*t, there has been a bombing by a Muslim; now we'll be persecuted by the cops more than ever!" instead of saying "oh, sh*t, those poor people who were hurt; I wonder what I can do to help them, and how can I help in combating these terrorists?"
I couldn't agree more and couldn't have said it better. It isn't so much the acts of a few that are maligning the rest it is that "the rest" aka the peaceful Muslims (the VAST majority) are NOT SPEAKING OUT against their own and therefore are some how becoming complicit via their silence.

I think the bad rap the terrorists are giving all Muslims is influencing tourists against travel. What percentage that is I don't know but until the chatter by the majority of Muslims outspeaks the few I think the stereotype that all Muslims are terrorists who are going to blow you up or hack you to death will directly influence tourists travel to Muslim countries.

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Bombay » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:12 pm

Looking at TUI travel business for this summer it appears that the fact that a country is Muslim is not a major factor in people's travel plans as Turkey was the most busiest destination this summer.

http://www.traveldailymedia.com/197688/ ... on-at-tui/

Turkey, Greece and the Balearic Islands were the most popular holiday destinations for UK tourists this summer for TUI, the company has revealed.

Analysing its summer 2013 data across its source markets, the travel company found Turkey to be the most popular destination, followed by Greece.

Further afield Mexico was the top destination for the British market, while the French preferred Mauritius and those in the Nordic countries headed to Thailand.

The UK market book their holidays first out of all TUI’s source markets and on average stay for 10 days during August.

“This survey has given us real insight into the key similarities and differences between our source markets. Identifying holiday trends for 2013 helps ensure we really know our customers and can tailor holidays so they get the best possible service and holiday experience from us,” said Johan Lundgren, deputy chief executive of TUI Travel.

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Re: Is it really because of the travel warnings?

Post by Glyphdoctor » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:37 pm

Turkey may be a Muslim country and it may have had protests earlier in the summer, but you have to admit the word "Muslim" or "Muslims" or "Muslims attacking churches" comes up a lot more often in the news in connection with Egypt than Turkey.

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