Is it Fair?

Get the best advice about your holiday in Luxor.

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Is it Fair?

Post by Zooropa » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:41 pm

To travel against your countries advice?

Discuss.....



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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Alistair1967 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:43 pm

OK, I'll ask the obvious question - fair on whom?

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Bullet Magnet » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:52 pm

In the example of Luxor, I have my own brain and can make up my own mind after informing myself as much as possible...

Regarding war zones though, I aint that stupid... :cool:
There's a time for everyone, if they only learn
That the twisting kaleidoscope moves us all in turn.

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Zooropa » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:10 pm

Bullet Magnet wrote:In the example of Luxor, I have my own brain and can make up my own mind after informing myself as much as possible...

Regarding war zones though, I aint that stupid... :cool:

Does that then mean the FCO is a waste of taxpayer money?

Either you follow the advice always or you don't.

Surely?

Where does your brain go when you are considering other countries? :D

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Zooropa » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:32 pm

Alistair1967 wrote:OK, I'll ask the obvious question - fair on whom?

The FCO

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Alistair1967 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:21 pm

Zooropa wrote:
Alistair1967 wrote:OK, I'll ask the obvious question - fair on whom?

The FCO
It is not unfair to the FCO to ignore their advice, however it may or may not prove to be foolhardy.

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by BENNU » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:35 pm

Zooropa wrote: Does that then mean the FCO is a waste of taxpayer money?

Either you follow the advice always or you don't.

Surely?
It is an advice, not an order. I have been planning several trips with friends to countries, where suddenly, even in the least likely of places, unrest or civil wars have begun. I have postponed these dream trips without even checking if there has been any advice against travelling, I have just not been willing to put myself in certain situations for a cultural experience. If I had never been to Luxor before, I might go to the next destination on my wish list or decide to accept the extra responsibility just to have the tombs and temples to myself, knowing that the responsibility would be mine alone.

It is not unfair to say A in Mali and B in Luxor. Until last month Luxor has been "safe" for Danes, though taxes are much higher here :lol2: . We can take a chance, be precautious, go somewhere else or stay at home and still be fair to ourselves.

It can be foolish not to listen to advice, but to follow it is an individual decision.

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Jane Akshar » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:10 am

It depends on whether you are expecting to be rescued. My dad went to Israel for Xmas 1990 and was surprised how empty it was. He never travelled again. The first gulf war started 15th Jan 1991. He did not expect to be rescued and had his dream
Jane Akshar - mad about egyptology -sane otherwise ....... I think

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:59 am

Advice is advice and is always appreciated. There is also a time that advice turns to recommendation, then strong recommendation and "Get your ass in gear and RUN!" ;) Probably along with a few "Incoming! Incoming!"

How much you heed the advice also depends on how much you want or are willing to lose. Kinda like gambling. If you go to Vegas with a fistful and the plan to spend it all cause it doesn't matter to you then - hey - you're probably able to go anywhere anytime. This should apply to how highly you value limbs, sanity and your overall health and well being.

If you really want to protect all of that then don't take the chance. IF, on the other hand these things matter very little the world is your oyster my son.

One thing that is certain - kinda like death and taxes - IF IF IF there is even a murmur of advice by the FCO out there and it happens to even minimally hit the fan your Insurance Company is going to parade out that missive like the announcement of the second comin'.

All IMO

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Zooropa » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:17 am

Alistair1967 wrote:
Zooropa wrote:
Alistair1967 wrote:OK, I'll ask the obvious question - fair on whom?

The FCO
It is not unfair to the FCO to ignore their advice, however it may or may not prove to be foolhardy.

So if you go somewhere against advice and get into difficulties and need their assistance and they possibly have to put themselves at risk to help you.

Like the idiots who ignored advice a few years ago and thought it was ok to go sailing off the coast of Somalia in an area crawling with armed pirates?

That's not unfair?

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:55 am

Here where I live there are mountains and dense forests. Great for skiing but total wilderness if you go off the marked trails and paths and unfortunately almost every year some person does go off the 'officially marked trail' and gets themselves lost. This bring out the ski patrol and if they can't find you Search and Rescue is called in (searchers and dogs) and if the hunt gets real intense the Canadian military which has a Search and Rescue component. All adds up to mega taxpayer dollars.

A few years back the decision was made that if one deliberately defies the warning and deliberately goes off by themselves into the wilderness and gets lost requiring we come look for you and are lucky enough to Rescue you YOU are then going to pay the cost of the entire effort to find you. NOT an inconsequential sum of money.

Moral of the story - here in Canada pay attention to the warnings or pay the price.

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Angela » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:20 am

I think that travelling without adequate insurance is completely down to the decision of the individual, but I wouldn't be involved in encouraging someone to travel without insurance. Many people aren't even aware that travelling against FCO advice invalidates their insurance and they're the ones I worry about as they're not making an informed choice.

None of my family can come over to visit us until the advice has been lifted. People have asked me if Luxor is "safe" or not but I refrain from answering. People, I think should just look at the FCO advice and then choose whether to take it with a pinch of salt or not. My parents are in their 60's and my Dad was willing to come over without insurance. He was completely unaware that his insurance would be invalidated if he visits against the FCO advice, he said he would risk it. I then told him it's his decision but spelt out the reality to him of what could happen if he becomes ill...

You are 64, overweight, with high blood pressure. If you become ill in Luxor they will take your passport and you will pretty much have to write an open cheque for your medical care which could run into thousands of US$. This may mean that you retirement is not as you planned. Worst case scenario, but worth considering before you make your decision.

I rent out two Nubian style houses. As you can imagine, we've not had any enquiries at the moment but if I did I would make sure that they were aware of the Travel advice given by their country. It's their decision on whether they decide to come on not but I feel it's morally the right thing to do as most just don't realise it impacts their insurance.

So to summarise, it's down to the individual to make an informed decision on whether to travel against advice, or not.

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Bombay » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:06 am

I have read on another forum that First Direct will issue travel insurance for travel during the FCO travel Advisory providing any claim is not as a result of protests.
I do not have any other info so if you need travel Insurance try there.

Details from other forum:

"First Direct - New enquiries: 08 456 012 968 I have NO affiliation with this company at all, I just have a policy with them. Sarah who I spoke to is on extension 7959."

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Miss scarlett » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:21 am

Thanks for that Bombay, have a holiday booked to Luxor for later on in the year and hope the advice is lifted. Husband and I are both in good health at the moment, but you never know what could happen on holiday. Had a friend taken ill while in Spain a few years ago, they had no insurance, and it cost them a fortune.

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Ruby Slippers » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:11 pm

Depends on how much you feel about your nearest and dearest as to whether it's fair or not. If I travelled either without insurance or against FO advice and anything happened to me, the onus of sorting it all out would fall on my husband and/or two sons. My sons find it hard enough to keep house and home together already so do I have the right to possibly give them further worry? No way! :stp And I don't usually travel without DH so that would be double the trouble! I hope I could never be that selfish.

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Zooropa » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:26 pm

It also depends on how you feel about asking someone to put themselves at risk should you require assistance after having been told its not advisable to travel.

I would quote "the idiots" who went sailing off the coast of Somalia again.

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by A-Four » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:26 pm

Always remember that ALL insurance claims against a British insurance company comes uder British Common Law,..... so, some years ago, a friend had a motor bike accident in India, many of you will know that like Egypt few wear a safety helmet. His medical costs were terrific.

Back in Britain, he took the company to Crown Court, thinking he would win his case. The barrister for the insurance company ask my mate one simple question,.....Were you wearing a crash helmet at the time of your accident. No, my mate said, adding that no one in India wear such things. The very same barrister looked to the jury and said, 'This is not India,...and I rest my case". My friend lost, and to my knowledge, is still paying off the debt, many, many years later.

Always remember,........everything is fine until,...............you need to make an expensive claim, then you learn all about the small, and NO print. :wi .

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Nwilliams » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:23 pm

if everyone follows advice why are you all still there they said things would get better after Hatshepsut and they did although it was very quiet we came in the sept and there was hardly anyone about so I do hope thing improve but and its a big but it needs to change all round to get people back the first step is reasonable flight prices else if you have to cut and run they only way out will be sat on a wing cos you wont be able to pay for a seat

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 pm

Always remember that ALL insurance claims against a British insurance company comes uder British Common Law,..... so, some years ago, a friend had a motor bike accident in India, many of you will know that like Egypt few wear a safety helmet. His medical costs were terrific.

Back in Britain, he took the company to Crown Court, thinking he would win his case. The barrister for the insurance company ask my mate one simple question,.....Were you wearing a crash helmet at the time of your accident. No, my mate said, adding that no one in India wear such things. The very same barrister looked to the jury and said, 'This is not India,...and I rest my case". My friend lost, and to my knowledge, is still paying off the debt, many, many years later.

Always remember,........everything is fine until,...............you need to make an expensive claim, then you learn all about the small, and NO print. :wi .
Couldn't have said it better. Even with Insurance there is always the fine fine print that had you stepped on the step with your left foot vs your right you've of been covered however since you did the onus is on you.

I think that one has to always be really cautious and aware and take every precaution to ensure that you're within appropriate boundaries that gives the Insurance Company no 'outs' to disallow your claim. This doesn't have to be huge but if you'd do it in your own country then do it there too! Best be safe then sorry.

I also think the word 'fair' isn't in the realm of the Insurance Company. Simply they don't care if something is fair. It all comes down to what they've got written down in their policy and as A-four point out what also is NOT printed there.

Sad and tangled mess really and such a difficult decision if you've saved and planned a holiday.

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Re: Is it Fair?

Post by Alistair1967 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:53 pm

What happens if you have valid insurance when you travel but the advice changes whilst you are actually on holiday? Will a claim still be honoured?

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