Balloon crash in Luxor

Get the best advice about your holiday in Luxor.

Moderators: DJKeefy, 4u Network

User avatar
Dusak
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 5874
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:29 pm
Location: LUXOR
Has thanked: 5895 times
Been thanked: 7328 times
Gender:
Thailand

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by Dusak » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:15 am

Self preservation is a very powerful emotion. When I worked for Pilkingtons glass for thirteen years I knew and understood the destructive power of fire and heat at working temperatures of 1700 degrees. It shows no mercy when out of control. I sincerely hope that no one starts to lay the blame on these two very lucky survivors that had literally a micro second to take to decision to jump against being incinerated alive. For the rest their lives they will have to live with the horrors of that day and what they lost. They do not need the world pointing a finger at them in an accusing gesture.



LovelyLadyLux
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:27 am
Has thanked: 985 times
Been thanked: 2256 times
Canada

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:50 am

If you have to make a split second decision such as the two survivors made - to jump - do you think decision like these come about based on a concious thought to jump or do you think what we have left of instinct kicks in and we jump without even thinking?

I'm personally inclined to think the jump was nothing more than an instinctive reaction to survive and these two souls should never be blamed, chastized or in any way sanctioned for this action.

User avatar
Chocolate Eclair
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 1621
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:56 pm
Location: Luxor Egypt
Has thanked: 124 times
Been thanked: 752 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by Chocolate Eclair » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:19 am

Possibly like people have suggested the balloon was lighter with people jumping out, but the basket was on fire, hot air rises and where would it go? into the balloon itself, the rush of hot air would make the balloon rise be it two people lighter or not, so I don't think this would have much to do with this terrible incident, the best thing is to wait and see what the investigation concludes.

User avatar
Dusak
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 5874
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:29 pm
Location: LUXOR
Has thanked: 5895 times
Been thanked: 7328 times
Gender:
Thailand

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by Dusak » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:26 pm

Believe me, to jump is pure instinct and I doubt that even a thought is produced. When your hit by a flash of extreme heat within three seconds your clothing smoulders then ignites. I lost count of how many time I had to evacuate the repair job I was on because of this happening. Even with the industrial heat protective clothing we wore the heat penetrated to the skin. It was worse for the likes of me that wore glasses as they would supper heat and I would gain a walnut sized blister on the bridge of my nose. Liquid glass, or metal as it was referred to, only some two feet from your face was scorching. We could only work for a maximum of ten minutes on the job then thirty recovery time. We received an extra 5.25 pounds an hour for this in about 1975. The reason I did this work was it rewarded you, as a young man of twenty, with a very good life style.

User avatar
FABlux
Egyptian God
Egyptian God
Posts: 9954
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:32 pm
Location: Luxor
Has thanked: 277 times
Been thanked: 179 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by FABlux » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:54 pm

Luxor Governor Ezzat Saad said earlier that flights will resume within a month, after the investigations into the balloon crash this week conclude.

Full article here:-
http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/up ... flight-ban

User avatar
DJKeefy
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10781
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 811 times
Been thanked: 1816 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by DJKeefy » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:43 pm

Families of Egypt balloon victims to receive $1.2mn compensation.

A company that was in charge of a balloon that crashed in Luxor, Upper Egypt, said the victims' families would receive roughly LE8.4 million ($1.2 million) in compensations, Ahram's Arabic-language news website reported on Saturday.

Mona Maher, the director of SkyTours, the Luxor-based company and the hot-air balloon’s operator, stated that the compensations have been set under terms of the Egyptian insurance document.

Maher added that the working licence of the company that was established in 2003 is valid until 25 March.

She went on to point out that the company, as a balloon operator, is subject to regular assessments, with the last one being carried out on 14 February.

SkyTours did not commit any errors that would threaten the security of the tourists, Maher said.

Nineteen people were killed in the tragedy.

On Wednesday, a British balloon expert said hot air balloon pilots in Egypt have "very weak" training.

The Egyptian government opened an investigation into the tragedy but no reports have been available yet.

Meanwhile, Japan, which lost four of its citizens in the crash, sent a team of security specialists to aid in the investigation.

Source: http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/65914.aspx
Image

User avatar
Ruby Slippers
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 453
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:14 pm
Has thanked: 424 times
Been thanked: 621 times
United Kingdom

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by Ruby Slippers » Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:47 pm

There's a very poignant video of all the victims at the start of the trip, on the Sun online website today. It is lovely to see them all laughing, joking and making faces at the camera but they now have identities which I find hard to swallow. :( R.I.P

User avatar
BENNU
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3182
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:31 pm
Has thanked: 969 times
Been thanked: 3446 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by BENNU » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:08 pm

LovelyLadyLux wrote:If you have to make a split second decision such as the two survivors made - to jump - do you think decision like these come about based on a concious thought to jump or do you think what we have left of instinct kicks in and we jump without even thinking?

I'm personally inclined to think the jump was nothing more than an instinctive reaction to survive and these two souls should never be blamed, chastized or in any way sanctioned for this action.
Yes, of course it was an instinct, I believe that most of us would do the same.

LovelyLadyLux
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:27 am
Has thanked: 985 times
Been thanked: 2256 times
Canada

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:43 pm

@ Bennu - I think it is pure instinct as well but I wonder why only 2 jumped? I wish so much that more had as this might have been the only chance.......such as awful tragedy.

User avatar
HEPZIBAH
Luxor4u God
Luxor4u God
Posts: 11338
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 3058 times
Been thanked: 4278 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by HEPZIBAH » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:28 pm

I have no wish to detract from the main focus of this thread however,
The Hindenberg was mentioned earlier. I have just seen a trailer for a programme to be shown on Channel 4, 9 pm Thursday 7th March - What Destroyed The Hindenburg.
Image Experience is not what happens to you;
it is what you do with what happens to you.
-Aldous Huxley

User avatar
Hafiz
V.I.P
V.I.P
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 805 times
Been thanked: 731 times
Gender:
Australia

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by Hafiz » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:10 am

On the balloon company payout of $US1.2 million. Why would an insurance company pay out if the policy holder was negligent or why would it offer to payout at such an early stage?

If the insurance company refused to pay out, the victims would have to sue the balloon company and Ms Maher in the Egyptian courts for what it was worth.

Ms Maher's statement 'victims' families would receive roughly LE8.4 million ($1.2 million) in compensation' is for the insurance company, not her, to say. Its all a bit premature given that insurance companies are slow to pay in situations like this and almost always wait for the investigation to show whether it was human or mechanical fault, if the latter they would likely sue the manufacturer for the mechanical fault. If gross human fault they would look for a way out.

Unless insurance is run on a financially bizarre basis in Egypt, any payouts will take a while. Maybe its a generous insurance company?

As an afterthought $1.2, if that's her standard coverage, is pretty light when the gondolas hold 20 - $60,000 each. That amount wouldn't cover much european medical care in the case of injury but would help with the repatriation of the body. Wonder if the Government regulation of the balloons requires a minimum insurance cover.

Don't balloon rides void a standard travel insurance policy, if so, there won't be much help for the bereaved from that quarter.

Tens of thousands of flooded Australians have found out in the past few years that insurance policies (admittedly property) rarely cover all that you think they do and suing them to fulfill the policy is a fools errand.

LovelyLadyLux
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:27 am
Has thanked: 985 times
Been thanked: 2256 times
Canada

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by LovelyLadyLux » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:58 am

Strikes me as a really fast payout. I assumed that it was this fast as there was possibly a standard clause indicating that amount in case of an accident. Even in times of disaster Insurance Companies are quite slow here.

User avatar
Jane Akshar
Member
Member
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:37 am
Location: West Bank, Luxor, Egypt
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 60 times

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by Jane Akshar » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:47 am

No balloon companies do not have a standard policy, they must carry insurance of course but the level and the company is their choice. Hod Hod carry insurance with Lloyds and at a high level. This is reflected in their flight price.

I have always said that you chose an operator for a dangerous activity based on safety record and insurance cover not on price. Para gliding, white water rafting, hot air balloon are generally excluded from your standard holiday insurance so it is important the operator carries adequate insurance.

Insurance covers you automatically in the case of an accident, it is not based on fault
Jane Akshar - mad about egyptology -sane otherwise ....... I think

Mad Dilys
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2136
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:19 am
Location: Luxor/UK/Ibiza
Has thanked: 4714 times
Been thanked: 2357 times
Spain

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by Mad Dilys » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:03 am

Could I just make something clear? I can only speak for Hod-hod Soliman.

We have close contact with our insurers Misr Insurance in Cairo. I understand this to be wholely State owned. As is usual insurance practice the risk is offset at Loyds, but the policy is not taken out directly with them.

Inshallah it will never be needed, but Hod-Hod Soliman's policy premium is paid in US $ and therefore any claim would be paid in US$ the amount being US$100,000 per person up to a total of US$2,000,000.

That amount is Per Passenger and does not include any other insurance such as the pilot, third party and the actual balloon itself which are quite seperate issues.

User avatar
Dusak
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 5874
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:29 pm
Location: LUXOR
Has thanked: 5895 times
Been thanked: 7328 times
Gender:
Thailand

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by Dusak » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:08 am

Yes, I thought it was a very quick payout statement. Perhaps the powers that be have decided to produce such a quick settlement to prevent possible higher payouts emanating from the countries of origin of the victims that could, conceivably, put a halt to the balloon trade for a much longer period. Again, its down to human nature especially if the 'bread winner' of the family was one of those lost, you would want to safeguard the survivors economic future and a few $1000 would be an insignificant amount to achieve this.

User avatar
HEPZIBAH
Luxor4u God
Luxor4u God
Posts: 11338
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 3058 times
Been thanked: 4278 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by HEPZIBAH » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:07 am

I know that my annual worldwide travel insurance actually covers me for Hot Air Balloon flights - as long as it is as part of a commercial flight i.e not just hopping into a basket because my mate happens to own one and wants to take a joy ride, or flying in one that is involved in competition. Regardless of knowing that Hot Air Balloon flights are covered in my insurance, and irrespective of my planned intention to take a flight, I always ring my insurers before I go to Luxor to make sure that there have been no changes in that, or any other, part of my policy.

All too often I have read of people not bothering with travel insurance - but it's a small price to pay on top of your holiday costs for that all important help should the need arise.

Equally, I've read too often about the prices of a Hot Air Balloon flight in Luxor and how you can and should beat the price down. Of course there may well be room for some negotiation - but there has to be a point where if companies are taking so little they will eventually not manage to maintain standards - the big question is when is that time!

Please note: my comments in the last paragraph are not meant to reflect on any particular company. It is based solely on advice I have seen given by a number of people regularly on a particular travel site.


I have flown with HodHod in the past, more than once, and would do so again given the right opportunity.
Image Experience is not what happens to you;
it is what you do with what happens to you.
-Aldous Huxley

User avatar
Winged Isis
Egyptian Pharaoh
Egyptian Pharaoh
Posts: 3865
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 1568 times
Been thanked: 1025 times
Gender:
Australia

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by Winged Isis » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:40 am

HEPZIBAH wrote:All too often I have read of people not bothering with travel insurance - but it's a small price to pay on top of your holiday costs for that all important help should the need arise.
Our government travel site says: "If you cannot afford travel insurance, you cannot afford to travel." Sage advice.

It is such a tiny amount compared to the rest you spend overall, why cheat on such an important element? I can never understand anyone not buying it.
Carpe diem! :le:

User avatar
Zooropa
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2509
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: Leicester
Has thanked: 1286 times
Been thanked: 1749 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by Zooropa » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:36 pm

I agree re insurance, but its not helped by the fact that they will try and screw you out of a rightful claim on the most flimsy premise.

Insurance companies are up there with bankers/solicitors & estate agents in the popularity charts and rightly so!

But i agree people should hold their nose and buy it, daft not to.

User avatar
Brian Yare
Royal V.I.P
Royal V.I.P
Posts: 2541
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:11 pm
Location: Worcester, UK
Has thanked: 1184 times
Been thanked: 1263 times
Gender:
United Kingdom

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by Brian Yare » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:13 pm

Can anyone confirm what I have heard several times - that the pilot of this tragic balloon flight was the same man who has involved with the flight, late in 2011 IIRC, that damaged a Dehabeya [sp?] by flying to low?

User avatar
DJKeefy
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 10781
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 811 times
Been thanked: 1816 times
Gender:
Egypt

Re: Balloon crash in Luxor

Post by DJKeefy » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:17 am

Tourism in the news: $60,000 in daily losses for hot air balloon companies in Luxor

Thurut Al-Agami, president of the Travel Agencies Chamber in Luxor, stated that average daily losses for hot air balloon companies in the area have reached $60,000 since the recent accident leading to the death of 19 passengers, which prompted the government to demand that the sector shut down its services.

He added that on average companies in Luxor organise nearly 30 trips per day with roughly 20 customers per trip, each lasting two to three hours. He added there are nine primary companies that employ a total of anywhere between 300 to 1,000 people.

The balloons are known for attracting high-paying tourists. A two hour balloon trip costs approximately $100, while prices for special trips lasting two hours or more can cost as much as $500.

Muhammad Hussein, salesman for the Hadhad Suleiman Hot Air Balloon Company, stated that the company on average hosts three trips per day, going up to four during busy tourist seasons.

The suspension of hot air balloon flights is expected to continue as Egypt’s airline authority is conducting investigations into the crash.

Source: http://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2013/03/0 ... -in-luxor/

Had Had Suleiman :roll:

When does a balloon flight last 2 hours or more?
Image

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post
  • Fuel leak caused Luxor balloon crash: Aviation ministry
    by DJKeefy » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:00 am » in Know Egypt
    3 Replies
    376 Views
    Last post by Hafiz
    Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:02 pm
  • Luxor blames Cairo chaos, not balloon crash for tourism woes
    by DJKeefy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:22 pm » in Visiting Luxor
    10 Replies
    218 Views
    Last post by biosceptic
    Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:34 pm
  • Hot air balloon flights resume in Luxor
    by DJKeefy » Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:55 am » in Visiting Luxor
    33 Replies
    523 Views
    Last post by Cyprus100
    Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:57 pm
  • 22 Chinese tourists injured in Luxor hot air balloon
    by DJKeefy » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:07 am » in Know Egypt
    14 Replies
    496 Views
    Last post by Who2
    Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:19 pm
  • Resumption of balloon flights in Luxor postponed
    by DJKeefy » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:10 am » in Visiting Luxor
    9 Replies
    250 Views
    Last post by Bullet Magnet
    Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:17 am